All purpose news and politics thread part VII: News & Politics Total Landscaping

[Tami]

Trump's reality as criminal defendant will be come clear

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/21/p...nts/index.html

Very interesting opinion article

"Donald Trump was once, and may soon be again, the most powerful man in the world. But on Monday, his diminished reality as a criminal defendant will become clear in humbling fashion during opening statements in his first criminal trial."

One thing, I really hate how news articles have been portraying Trump as someone who has already won the election. I've seen it too often where they practically say that Trump is going to win, even if they phrase it as a warning.

[hyped78]

One thing, I really hate how news articles have been portraying Trump as someone who has already won the election. I've seen it too often where they practically say that Trump is going to win, even if they phrase it as a warning.

I noticed that on this article too. And I've been noticing the same on various articles here in Europe. I don't necessarily understand the rhetoric. If anything, the election is 50/50 at this point, perhaps?

[Tami]

Pro-Israel US groups plan $100m effort to unseat progressives over Gaza

Pro-Israel groups are pumping millions into this year’s heated congressional races, singling out progressives who have voiced criticism of the Israeli government and its relentless campaign in Gaza.

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac) is betting that $100m will be enough to fight back a wave of progressive dissent over Israel’s war in Gaza this election cycle. After investing heavily in the 2022 midterms, Aipac is now doubling down on its electoral efforts.

Aipac and other pro-Israel groups, such as Democratic Majority for Israel, have already identified some high-profile targets in this year’s congressional elections – including the New York congressman Jamaal Bowman and the Missouri congresswoman Cori Bush.

Progressive leaders have made clear that they will not go down without a fierce fight, and outrage over the war in Gaza, which has killed more than 33,000 Palestinians, has rallied supporters to push back against pro-Israel lobbying groups. The unexpected strength of the “uncommitted” primary campaign in states such as Michigan and Minnesota has underscored that Gaza is weighing heavily on the minds of progressive voters this election cycle, and their mobilization could complicate campaign efforts by groups like Aipac.

But combating $100m is no easy task, and progressives will need to use every possible resource to protect some of their most vulnerable candidates.

[Tami]

I noticed that on this article too. And I've been noticing the same on various articles here in Europe. I don't necessarily understand the rhetoric. If anything, the election is 50/50 at this point, perhaps?

Journalism can't help it's self, it has to word things in ways that get readers attention, even if it tugs gently on the edges of truth. As long as the race is portrayed as 50-50, arguments can be made either way. So playing up Trump is more sensational than talking about Biden.

Still, it bothers me.

[hyped78]

Pro-Israel US groups plan $100m effort to unseat progressives over Gaza

Well, the voting yesterday on Israel aid had 37 Democrats and 21 Republicans voting against, so they should target both cohorts

[hyped78]

Journalism can't help it's self, it has to word things in ways that get readers attention, even if it tugs gently on the edges of truth. As long as the race is portrayed as 50-50, arguments can be made either way. So playing up Trump is more sensational than talking about Biden.

Still, it bothers me.

Agree. Although, if you read the article, it's quite critical towards Trump.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well, the voting yesterday on Israel aid had 37 Democrats and 21 Republicans voting against, so they should target both cohorts

If there's one party that doesn't care about civilian deaths, it's Republicans

[Catlady in training]

I noticed that on this article too. And I've been noticing the same on various articles here in Europe. I don't necessarily understand the rhetoric. If anything, the election is 50/50 at this point, perhaps?

I understand it here in Europe, because unless there are some serious behind-the-scenes plans that we have no information about, it doesn't look like the leaders are taking the possibility as seriously as they should. Just like the last time.
In US, I agree, there isn't the need for the defeatist attitude yet. But that is IMO more of a symptom of the general news model - negative news get more attention.

[hyped78]

If there's one party that doesn't care about civilian deaths, it's Republicans

True. But this "uncommitted" crap, if it materializes in November (and that's a big if) would hurt Biden more than it hurts Trump

[Tami]

If there's one party that doesn't care about civilian deaths, it's Republicans

That is the irony, Republicans vote against it because they don't care, Democrats vote against it because they care too much.

[hyped78]

I understand it here in Europe, because unless there are some serious behind-the-scenes plans that we have no information about, it doesn't look like the leaders are taking the possibility as seriously as they should. Just like the last time.
In US, I agree, there isn't the need for the defeatist attitude yet. But that is IMO more of a symptom of the general news model - negative news get more attention.

I don't know, some in Europe are taking the possibility seriously, e.g. David Cameron recently went to the US and met with Trump:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/w...ne-israel.html

[Catlady in training]

What’s the general opinion: is a guilty or not guilty verdict more likely to gain him votes?

I don't even understand how is he allowed to get any votes if he's found guilty.

[Dalak]

Assuming this is the idea, targeting Biden is symbolic, at best. If he woke up tomorrow and decided he wanted to cut Israel's aid off, he couldn't. The protests would need to pressure Congress.

And I don't know what the strategy is anyway. It doesn't look like protests are moving the needle among the voting public (who could indirectly pressure Congress), but are actively annoying people.

There are situations when the President has more impact than others. EX: Trump gives the marching orders to the GoP as a whole now, and similar to the SCOTUS a defection or 2 is allowed in order to allow lip service defenses of indefensible actions.

All Biden can do in this case is refuse to sign a bill that comes to him, as we don't have a supermajority that would allow the Dems to just push through whatever they want past unending obstruction.

I agree that it can't solved overnight but to be fair, at this point the US isn't exactly just now barging in. We've been involved in the Israel/Palestine situation for decades. And in fact, we've ( rightly or wrongly ) vetoed UN resolutions against Israel for their handling of things like the settlements.

Yes, this is a old problematic situation and there are no good guys in it unlike fictional stories.

It's the same as with those radical climate protesters. Throwing paint or soup at art doesn't do anything positive, it just makes people annoyed and more likely to dismiss the entire movement. They do more damage than help, similar to those who send death threats to people they disagree with. But do they care? Probably not, because they don't really care about the issue, they just want that momentary feeling of doing something radical, then they move to a different issue if this one is not trendy enough anymore.

Meanwhile, foreign powers that often finance these things, either directly or through stuff like Tiktok, are laughing because causing division in western society is exactly what they want.

If they are laughing now, they haven't watched much late night US TV Programing. See, we here in the US laugh at ourselves all the time. The right to be divisive (and stupid) is practically written into the US Constitution. Everything that is going on now has some roots in the past or at least some comparable parallels from the past. We have a built in fail safe, or multiple fail safes, mostly in the structure of the country where everything gets checked and balanced to some degree. Even the individual states check and balance each other.

That's not to say that we should be complacent.

We do have the right to be decisive which is extremely important in a democratic society, but equally if not more important is that we maintain a unified philosophy of faith in the democratic system. If one segment or party abandons that philosophy we’re in danger of sliding into authoritarianism, which is where the US is right now.

In danger only if that side takes full control which is not easy to do. Still, it is a valid issue that we need to be concerned about.

I stopped signing online petitions simply because it did nothing but fill up my inbox with spam, but when you are younger even a meaningless protest is better than sitting around doing nothing. Of course it's easy to lose faith in a system that is handicapped at every turn by the same one of the two parties in our two party system.

Finally. I'm still peeved that Johnson refused to simply take up the largely-similar Senate version for months, and instead let Ukraine lose strategic towns/infrastructure/lives that it could've otherwise defended. The best comment I've seen is that "Watching and listening to him it was like he'd been deleted and replaced by a completely reprogrammed clone that spoke only obviously true stuff." I'm half-expecting him to drop dead in a few weeks, Death-Note style.

The Senate plans to vote on the bill Tuesday afternoon. Something about cloture and Passover delaying things. I wish it were sooner, even by a day or two. Thankfully the military's logistics are reportedly prepared to deliver within days for some of the stuff, once approved.

Incidentally, one of the four passed bills included another version of the Tiktok ban/forced-sale.

Well the Aid getting passed is good news, thanks for that!

That's a bit disingenuous, don't you think? She listed ALL 58 members who voted to not send aid to Israel. Gaetz and MTG were just among them. You make it sound like she singled them out or personally thanked them.

Thank you for providing missing context.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...source=twitter

I believe that spreading of misinformation (Scientific and not) is a huge problem that's become even more rampant. When the vast majority of misinformation spread comes from conservative sources by any metric, it's clear that there's a political motivation to lie by american conservatives.

I agree that Mayorkas isn't doing enough to address the problem, still, what can he do? Even if he were to turn GQP level heartless and order mass deportations of illegals 24/7, regardless of immigration status, nothing will change because those same people will keep trying to get in. It's like I said in a previous post, we're talking about people desperate to escape unimaginable poverty and violence in their home countries, in their minds, they have no other options and are willing to risk it all to get into the U.S. Yes, Biden's walking a tightrope here: too soft on illegals and angers voters fed up with the problem, too hard and he alienates Hispanics, and he needs all the support he can get with Trump refusing to go away.

As above, Biden can't simply "fix" a situation that's been problematic for decades in such a short time frame without actual legislation to do it. Obama may have used executive orders as shortcuts but those are much easier to undo, so rather than shifting all the rules every 4-8 years I think everyone can agree it's better to have something a bit more permanent if a fix is to be had. Considering the unending obstruction to anything resembling a positive action by Dems, it seems disingenuous to try and blame him for refusing to defy the rules & laws we live under as easily as folks like Trump do.

I guess whatever the result of the Trump trial, he will play the victim at the end of it.

If found guilty, the theme will be “Americas champion laid low by a crooked judge and biased jury. Vote for me to help right this grievous wrong”.

If found not guilty, “This demonstrates I am being targeted. When the facts were examined by a conscientious jury…”

Anybody else would be finished by a guilty verdict. But bizarrely, I think a guilty verdict may actually get him more votes.

What’s the general opinion: is a guilty or not guilty verdict more likely to gain him votes?

He was right when he said every set of new charges gained him more support. Be that in the polls or from fundraising. I would think a guilty verdict gets him the more votes. His cult seems to love the whole him vs the crooked Biden machine story he paints.

I think anyone assuming a Guilty vote is proof he's been unfairly targeted was going to vote for him already. However there are some conservatives who've been on the fence about voting for such a despicable man, and this would shake more of those voters from voting for him IMO.

One thing, I really hate how news articles have been portraying Trump as someone who has already won the election. I've seen it too often where they practically say that Trump is going to win, even if they phrase it as a warning.

Journalism can't help it's self, it has to word things in ways that get readers attention, even if it tugs gently on the edges of truth. As long as the race is portrayed as 50-50, arguments can be made either way. So playing up Trump is more sensational than talking about Biden.

Still, it bothers me.

I think it's an overcorrection from 2016 where everyone was laughing off a potential Trump presidency and ever since some have been in a state of PTSD. I personally don't trust the voting public not to wind up reelecting him

Pro-Israel US groups plan $100m effort to unseat progressives over Gaza

You've brought up AIPAC before, and it doesn't seem like they are truly out to improve our politics. If calling for a cease-fire alone is worth facing their ire, I wonder what they would do to someone just for criticizing Netanyahu specifically?

[4saken1]

"Not guilty" isn't the same as "Innocent" though

Agreed. I'm prepared to answer responses to the possible outcome of 'not guilty' being seen as a vindication for Trump with "Yep! He's innocent, just like OJ!"

[Tami]

I had forgotten that I posted that earlier.