All purpose news and politics thread part VII: News & Politics Total Landscaping

[aja_christopher]

Interesting video.

Mark Fuhrman was a real piece of work.

See after the trial he retired, got full pension, made a lot of money writing books, tv appearances. That should cause anybody who believes in “karma” to be severely puzzled.

Had a more honest and credible officer been assigned to the case, things might have turned out completely differently.

The same could be said for the Rodney King case as well -- ignoring problems until they become critical is not a solution.

And just to be clear Jack, that comment isn't aimed at you but at society in general and bigotry more specifically.

[hyped78]

No -- a racist cop blew the trial by perjuring himself on the stand and directly impugning the credibility of the prosecution.

Instead of blaming people for responding to racism the solution is to stop being racist -- and dishonest about it.

And many would argue that attempting to overthrow American democracy to forcibly impose white nationalism upon its citizens is equally problematic -- if not more so.

Edit: No Trump isn't on trial for that but people had no problem watching Simpson go to jail for nine years for an unrelated crime.

Had a more honest and credible officer been assigned to the case, things might have turned out completely differently.

The same could be said for the Rodney King case as well -- ignoring problems until they become critical is not a solution.

And just to be clear Jack, that comment isn't aimed at you but at society in general and bigotry more specifically.

There are many reasons why OJ got acquitted, you're being selective. Why aren't you also mentioning that one of the Jurors was, inexplicably, a Black Panther who gave OJ a "Black Power" salute?

https://www.thewrap.com/oj-juror-who...black-panther/

Or that his defense team was known as the "Dream Team", the best money could buy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Team_(law)

And yes, there's Fuhrman, and various other elements and reasons why OJ was able to walk out a free man.

But obviously he was a criminal.

[aja_christopher]

There are many reasons why OJ got acquitted, you're being selective. Why aren't you also mentioning that one of the Jurors was, inexplicably, a Black Panther who gave OJ a "Black Power" salute?

https://www.thewrap.com/oj-juror-who...black-panther/

Or that his defense team was known as the "Dream Team", the best money could buy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Team_(law)

And yes, there's Fuhrman, and various other elements and reasons why OJ was able to walk out a free man.

But obviously he was a criminal.

Not being anything so stop trying to start fights -- all of that data is relevant.

But "beyond a reasonable doubt" is exactly that and Furhman's lies -- and openly racist rhetoric -- destroyed any chance of that happening.

As stated before -- deal with the racism directly instead of complaining about the consequences.

[hyped78]

Not being anything so stop trying to start fights -- all of that data is relevant.

But "beyond a reasonable doubt" is exactly that and Furhman destroyed any chance of that happening.

That's without even acknowledging the Rodney King beating -- and acquittals.

As stated before -- deal with the racism directly instead of complaining about the responses.

I'm not trying to start a fight (honestly). OJ was able to walk out for multiple reasons and one of the reasons was because he was a famous and rich sports icon!

I'll read up on Rodney King because I only have a very high-level notion of that case.

[aja_christopher]

I'm not trying to start a fight (honestly). OJ was able to walk out for multiple reasons and one of the reasons was because he was a famous and rich sports icon!

I'll read up on Rodney King because I only have a very high-level notion of that case.

To be clear I deleted the Rodney King reference because that shouldn't have anything to do with Simpson's case -- even though it did due to context.



The issue is much larger than just that case and some people felt -- unjustifiably or otherwise -- that acquitting OJ was "payback" for the aquittal of the Rodney King officers.

Not to be cliche but an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

The natural modern context for this was the death of George Floyd -- and subsequent international protests -- yet Republicans continue to block any attempts at police reform to this very day.

Trying to avoid another cliche but those who don't learn from history...

[hyped78]

To be clear I deleted the Rodney King reference because that shouldn't have anything to do with Simpsons' case -- even though it did due to context.

The issue is much larger than just that case and some people felt -- unjustifiably -- that acquitting OJ was "payback" for the aquittal of the Rodney King officers.

Not to be cliche but eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

The natural modern context for this was the death of George Floyd yet Republicans continue to block any attempts at police reform to this very day.

George Floyd is, unfortunately, a case I followed closely...

I was too young when Rodney King was beaten and the LA riots took place. And for whatever reason, I haven't read much on it - I'll try to see if there's a good documentary or something on it.

Don't think your overall point is lost on me. I know about the Central Park Five (and Trump's involvement on that), to mention another example.

You and I don't have the same opinions - and that's fine - but I would never vote Republican and I condemn all forms of racism and bigotry.

[aja_christopher]

George Floyd is, unfortunately, a case I followed closely...

I was too young when Rodney King was beaten and the LA riots took place. And for whatever reason, I haven't read much on it - I'll try to see if there's a good documentary or something on it.

Don't think your overall point is lost on me. I know about the Central Park Five (and Trump's involvement on that), to mention another example.

You and I don't have the same opinions - and that's fine - but I would never vote Republican and I condemn all forms of racism and bigotry.

Understood but another point being made is that society has to do more than just pay lip service to resolving age old issues.

No one race or religion is responsible for doing so because it has to be a collective effort if it is to be successful and enduring -- the finger is not being pointed at anyone but at everyone.



There is no definitive solution at this point but people can at least be honest about the problems and act responsibly and accordingly.

[aja_christopher]

Protest and American Revolution.

-----

"Defending the soldiers in the subsequent trial, John Adams painted Attucks and the rest of those killed as aggressors to justify the killing. He played to the jury's prejudices about race and class, describing those in the crowd as "a motley rabble of saucy boys, Negroes, and mulattos, Irish teagues and outlandish jack tars."

In other words, those in the crowd were young, lower-class, Black, Irish, or sailors from out of town.

Adams' argument led to an acquittal for the Captain and all but two of the soldiers."

https://www.nps.gov/people/crispus-attucks.htm

[hyped78]

Understood but another point being made is that society has to do more than just pay lip service to resolving age old issues.

No one race or religion is responsible for doing so because it has to be a collective effort if it is to be successful and enduring -- the finger is not being pointed at anyone but at everyone.

There is no definitive solution at this point but people can at least be honest about the problems and act responsibly and accordingly.

Needs to start with kids and their education. Some older people aren't going to change their ways but making education inclusive from an earlier age will solve the problem long-term (easier said than done, I know, and there are forces that will block this - e.g. Florida's textbooks)

[aja_christopher]

Needs to start with kids and their education. Some older people aren't going to change their ways but making education inclusive from an earlier age will solve the problem long-term (easier said than done, I know, and there are forces that will block this - e.g. Florida's textbooks)

True but adults shouldn't be let off the hook either -- with the advent of the internet there is no excuse for people not to be informed.



It could even be argued that it is their personal responsibility to be well informed before making decisions that affect the lives of others.

Besides, kids need someone to look up to when they are young and fictional characters and teachers shouldn't be their only heroes.

[Dalak]

True but adults shouldn't be let off the hook either -- with the advent of the internet there is no excuse for people not to be informed.



It could even be argued that it is their personal responsibility to be well informed before making decisions that affect the lives of others.

Besides, kids need someone to look up to when they are young and fictional characters and teachers shouldn't be their only heroes.

I've been to the campus shown at the end of that video many times though I never wound up going to UT.

In regards to the bolded, I think that school classes should include (Or better yet make a class specifically devoted to) education on reading comprehension & Critical thinking skills specifically designed to help one avoid tricks and traps that are online today. From Misinformation to Phishing to Advertising posing as so many other things and beyond, learning to spot these things is very important to avoid people getting lost in conspiracy theories & groupthink, so I think they should be offered at several levels including secondary education at reduced rates for older adults. The Internet is becoming a vastly dangerous place for people who can't separate the truth from all the fiction out there, and educating them at all ages will lead to a better informed public able to make up their own opinions much easier. Will there be those who are still not going to do the basic diligence needed - Of course, but that doesn't make the effort a wasted one. Despite what some conservative pundits might try to portray, public education isn't failing kids because of the educators in general but because of outrageous budget cuts (Only some to benefit private schools) and politically motivated bigotry & censorship. I'm sure a well crafted curriculum could be made by educators & other experts who know how to help people learn these types of skills, and can be checked to make it politically neutral - As Politics have to be involved, show untrue/extreme positions from both Left & Right that are demonstrably false as examples when necessary, and that should be an easy bar to have approved by those without bias. There are many real-world examples that can be edited to be used as examples with the basic criteria being: Is it from the selected political end of the spectrum & Is it demonstrably false and we are portraying it as such? Rational experts can come up with proper safeguards to prevent things that aren't age appropriate from being shown to the younger crowds as opposed to biased politicians.

Yes this is all only tangentially related to what was being discussed, but inspiration strikes as it may.

[williamtheday]

The L.A. Prosecuters back then weren't very successful, were they? They lost their case against John Landis and also Robert Blake.

[Mister Mets]

Needs to start with kids and their education. Some older people aren't going to change their ways but making education inclusive from an earlier age will solve the problem long-term (easier said than done, I know, and there are forces that will block this - e.g. Florida's textbooks)

There are plenty of educated bigots out there, though. Don't get me wrong. Education helps avoid some of the problems caused by ignorance or a lack of developed reasoning but we can look at the antisemites in Ivy League universities or Chinese officials educated in the West to see that other things need to happen.

[zinderel]

True but adults shouldn't be let off the hook either -- with the advent of the internet there is no excuse for people not to be informed.



It could even be argued that it is their personal responsibility to be well informed before making decisions that affect the lives of others.

Besides, kids need someone to look up to when they are young and fictional characters and teachers shouldn't be their only heroes.

We USED to teach civics in high school. And had classes in woodworking and metalworking and ACTUAL home economics. We used to educate students in HOW to think. Not WHAT to think, but how to approach a subject critically, how to do research, how to tell when someone is using manipulative language or imagery.

Now, our schools are overcrowded, underfunded (unless they’re in wealthy, primarily white neighborhoods), and just teach kids how to memorize short term facts for tests, and how to fill in forms. Our leaders (not the politicians so much as the people who OWN those politicians) don’t want competent citizens who understand and are enthusiastic about their role in politics. Those leaders just want mindless consumers who will buy the latest trend without thinking, do what they’re told without hesitation, and work themselves to death to make a few extra dollars for the dragons on their money piles.

[babyblob]

With the crazies in the GOP looking to boot out Mike Johnson I was wondering what you guys thought.

If it comes to a vote should the Dems vote to help him keep his job as speaker?

I think they should.