All purpose news and politics thread part VII: News & Politics Total Landscaping

[hyped78]

And if you can spend months falsely claiming Democrats support "open borders" then you can objectively spend the same amount of time analyzing Republican illegal and unethical actions which only exacerbate the problem.

There I have to agree with you. Most Democrats do not support "open borders". In fact, most Democrats think the border situation is a problem and that the government has done a poor job of handling it:

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66% of Democrats consider that the border situation is a "Crisis" (22%) or a "Major Problem" (44%). Only 7% of Democrats say it isn't a problem.

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A big majority of 73% of Democrats say that that US Government is doing a bad job dealing with the border situation.

[hyped78]

"Papua New Guinea PM responds to Biden's 'cannibals' comment. The president appeared to suggest his uncle was eaten by cannibals after his plane crashed during the Second World War."

https://news.sky.com/story/papua-new...mment-13120764

Sounds like something out of a comedy sketch.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

There I have to agree with you. Most Democrats do not support "open borders". In fact, most Democrats think the border situation is a problem and that the government has done a poor job of handling it:

a1.JPG

66% of Democrats consider that the border situation is a "Crisis" (22%) or a "Major Problem" (44%). Only 7% of Democrats say it isn't a problem.

a2.JPG

A big majority of 73% of Democrats say that that US Government is doing a bad job dealing with the border situation.

Definitey a problem, no denying that. However, for all the whining and bitching far right Qpublicans have done about the absence of monies in the spending bill passed by the House over the weekend, let's not forget THEY killed bipartisan legislation weeks earlier to fund border security on the orders of their dear leader Trump because he needed something to campaign against Biden about. That can't be emphasized enough because it makes the GQP's concerns about illegals storming into the country ring extremely hollow.

[Tendrin]

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...source=twitter

In 2023 alone, more than 500 anti-trans bills were proposed or adopted in nearly every state in the United States, targeting everything from drag performances to gender-affirming medical care to school inclusion policies for trans people. Support for these measures has been enabled and propelled by scientific misinformation, which has proven to be a distressingly effective tool in outraging a public that might otherwise be broadly empathetic, or at least uncertain about where to stand. In the following Q&A, law professor Florence Ashley and scientist Simón(e) Sun describe to OpenMind co-editor Corey S. Powell how deceptions in science have been used to disenfranchise trans people and other marginalized groups. (This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.)

Anti-trans sentiment has existed for a long time, but it seems like we're at a moment of particularly intense attacks. Why is that?

[hyped78]

Definitey a problem, no denying that. However, for all the whining and bitching far right Qpublicans have done about the absence of monies in the spending bill passed by the House over the weekend, let's not forget THEY killed bipartisan legislation weeks earlier to fund border security on the orders of their dear leader Trump because he needed something to campaign against Biden about. That can't be emphasized enough because it makes the GQP's concerns about illegals storming into the country ring extremely hollow.

Absolutely, I'm not defending the GOP, they're playing political games that don't benefit the country.

But a majority of Democrats are pointing fingers at Biden because, quite frankly, the bill got killed by the GOP in 2024, but the border crisis didn't start in 2024 - it's the 4th year of Biden's term and the record number of border encounters before that were already a fact. The border is the single biggest issue that is likely to impact his numbers come November, unfortunately. So Mayorkas needs to do something before November to at least mitigate voter perception.

[aja_christopher]

Watching MSNBC and heard her referred to as Moscow Marjorie. Add that to the list of nicknames.

[hyped78]

Trump's reality as criminal defendant will be come clear

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/21/p...nts/index.html

Very interesting opinion article

"Donald Trump was once, and may soon be again, the most powerful man in the world. But on Monday, his diminished reality as a criminal defendant will become clear in humbling fashion during opening statements in his first criminal trial."

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Absolutely, I'm not defending the GOP, they're playing political games that don't benefit the country.

But a majority of Democrats are pointing fingers at Biden because, quite frankly, the bill got killed by the GOP in 2024, but the border crisis didn't start in 2024 - it's the 4th year of Biden's term and the record number of border encounters before that were already a fact. The border is the single biggest issue that is likely to impact his numbers come November, unfortunately. So Mayorkas needs to do something before November to at least mitigate voter perception.

I agree that Mayorkas isn't doing enough to address the problem, still, what can he do? Even if he were to turn GQP level heartless and order mass deportations of illegals 24/7, regardless of immigration status, nothing will change because those same people will keep trying to get in. It's like I said in a previous post, we're talking about people desperate to escape unimaginable poverty and violence in their home countries, in their minds, they have no other options and are willing to risk it all to get into the U.S. Yes, Biden's walking a tightrope here: too soft on illegals and angers voters fed up with the problem, too hard and he alienates Hispanics, and he needs all the support he can get with Trump refusing to go away.

[hyped78]

I agree that Mayorkas isn't doing enough to address the problem, still, what can he do? Even if he were to turn GQP level heartless and order mass deportations of illegals 24/7, regardless of immigration status, nothing will change because those same people will keep trying to get in. It's like I said in a previous post, we're talking about people desperate to escape unimaginable poverty and violence in their home countries, in their minds, they have no other options and are willing to risk it all to get into the U.S. Yes, Biden's walking a tightrope here: too soft on illegals and angers voters fed up with the problem, too hard and he alienates Hispanics, and he needs all the support he can get with Trump refusing to go away.

I don't have an answer. I totally agree with your assessment of the situation, though!

[JackDaw]

I guess whatever the result of the Trump trial, he will play the victim at the end of it.

If found guilty, the theme will be “Americas champion laid low by a crooked judge and biased jury. Vote for me to help right this grievous wrong”.

If found not guilty, “This demonstrates I am being targeted. When the facts were examined by a conscientious jury…”

Anybody else would be finished by a guilty verdict. But bizarrely, I think a guilty verdict may actually get him more votes.

What’s the general opinion: is a guilty or not guilty verdict more likely to gain him votes?

[babyblob]

I guess whatever the result of the Trump trial, he will play the victim at the end of it.

If found guilty, the theme will be “Americas champion laid low by a crooked judge and biased jury. Vote for me to help right this grievous wrong”.

If found not guilty, “This demonstrates I am being targeted. When the facts were examined by a conscientious jury…”

Anybody else would be finished by a guilty verdict. But bizarrely, I think a guilty verdict may actually get him more votes.

What’s the general opinion: is a guilty or not guilty verdict more likely to gain him votes?

He was right when he said every set of new charges gained him more support. Be that in the polls or from fundraising. I would think a guilty verdict gets him the more votes. His cult seems to love the whole him vs the crooked Biden machine story he paints.

[hyped78]

I guess whatever the result of the Trump trial, he will play the victim at the end of it.

If found guilty, the theme will be “Americas champion laid low by a crooked judge and biased jury. Vote for me to help right this grievous wrong”.

If found not guilty, “This demonstrates I am being targeted. When the facts were examined by a conscientious jury…”

Anybody else would be finished by a guilty verdict. But bizarrely, I think a guilty verdict may actually get him more votes.

What’s the general opinion: is a guilty or not guilty verdict more likely to gain him votes?

He was right when he said every set of new charges gained him more support. Be that in the polls or from fundraising. I would think a guilty verdict gets him the more votes. His cult seems to love the whole him vs the crooked Biden machine story he paints.

I'm a bit torn. I think the biggest impact from the trial is that he needs to sit there, so he doesn't have that time to campaign and fundraise. I don't think the verdict itself will impacting his voting.

Now, if he's found guilty on Georgia election interference and/on on Jan. 6th, I think that hurts him tremendously. I saw a poll about that some months ago, I'll try to dig it up.

[Mister Mets]

I guess whatever the result of the Trump trial, he will play the victim at the end of it.

If found guilty, the theme will be “Americas champion laid low by a crooked judge and biased jury. Vote for me to help right this grievous wrong”.

If found not guilty, “This demonstrates I am being targeted. When the facts were examined by a conscientious jury…”

Anybody else would be finished by a guilty verdict. But bizarrely, I think a guilty verdict may actually get him more votes.

What’s the general opinion: is a guilty or not guilty verdict more likely to gain him votes?

I think it's worse for him to be found guilty.

If he's found Not Guilty, Republicans will have arguments about the process being the punishment and Democrats using lawfare against a politician they don't like. I don't think swing voters will hear the message that the system worked. They'll hear all the ways the trial hurt the campaign and Donald Trump and his family.

If he's found Guilty, there is a easy soundbite summary that Donald Trump was convicted of the felony of falsifying records to pay off a porn star he slept with while his wife was pregnant, in order to benefit his campaign.

The bigger question would be how much of a difference it would make. But if it hurts him by about three points (my rough estimate) that's enough to make the difference from a close race to Obama's 2012 reelection.

There I have to agree with you. Most Democrats do not support "open borders". In fact, most Democrats think the border situation is a problem and that the government has done a poor job of handling it:

a1.JPG

66% of Democrats consider that the border situation is a "Crisis" (22%) or a "Major Problem" (44%). Only 7% of Democrats say it isn't a problem.

a2.JPG

A big majority of 73% of Democrats say that that US Government is doing a bad job dealing with the border situation.

I think I've been careful enough not to say something like "most Democrats" support open borders. My main claim is that support for open borders is a position held by Democrats in good standing.

There is a distinction between Democratic primary voters, and the party apparatus (elected/ appointed officials, the "shadow party" of media figures, academics and think tank heads who rotate in and out of government.) Party officials often don't enough to appeal outside the extremes of their base. Majorities of Republican voters favor funding for Ukraine and some restrictions on abortion. Pointing this out is not going to shut up critics of the party.

Party officials can do more to signal that the open borders crowd will never get what they want. It is not a deal-breaker for staff positions. There is not the same level of pushback against open borders supporters as there is against supporters of keeping the filibuster in the Senate, or of outlawing abortion after 12 weeks.

It seems to me that however you want the Republican party apparatus pushing back against unpopular views held by some members of the party is how you should want the Democratic party apparatus pushing back against anyone who wants virtually unlimited immigration.

Because Republicans are systemically dismantaling the rights of non-white, non-hetero, non-Christian American citizens in an effort to effort to promote a white Christian nationalist government.

The "Parents Rights Movement" is only one such organization out of many that promotes said goal -- just as that was only one video out of many documenting Republican racism and trans/homophobia.

History implies you don't have a problem with said agenda -- but others do and you're just going to have to live with the fact that so long as you support an openly white nationalist party, you are going to be challenged on said basis.

It doesn't matter what you might say about Republican racism and bigotry on these forums if you still support it at the ballot box.

And in truth you generally just say "that's terrible" and move on to writing deflective posts telling others they need to ask you questions instead of just addressing the topic objectively and in-depth.



Which is your choice -- but don't act is if you are being treated unfairly when the real victims are the people losing their rights due to Republican fascism and bigotry.

If you can spend six months explaining why you don't have the time to address all of the racism and bigotry in question then you can certainly spend the same amount of time actually addressing it.

And if you can spend months falsely claiming Democrats support "open borders" then you can objectively spend the same amount of time analyzing Republican illegal and unethical actions which only exacerbate the problem.

As well as the overtly racist targeting of black and brown immigrants -- whether it's Trump or otherwise.

Asking you "questions" won't solve anything -- the real solution to this problem was already stated at the beginning of the thread.



This needs to be addressed as it is a complete falsehood and prevents any real dialogue -- a diversity of opinions is more than welcome and is generally beneficial in any civil society.

But if you are going to constantly claim the moral high ground in so many conversations then you damn well sure better be able to explain how that can be done while supporting a party you know engages in racism and bigotry.

We can leave it there though as this isn't an argument so much as an observation -- if you truly don't see these things as problems within the conservative/Republican party then it is what it is.

The videos are posted to prove there is nothing "vague" about Republican bigotry and fascism -- no one should have to tell any grown adult why these things are wrong and why it is wrong to support these behaviors in a democracy.

You didn't address my point on whether you completely agree with the video, and why anyone should take the messenger seriously. Who is Zoe Bee, and why should all of us trust her insights? It seems you agree with her conclusion, but is she just someone who articulated a position well, or is there something about her background that's compelling.

If you would like my opinion on something, just ask me a question in a non-loaded way. Otherwise you seem to be upset that I don't have the same conclusions you do, rather than sharing the information that led you to particular conclusions.

He was right when he said every set of new charges gained him more support. Be that in the polls or from fundraising. I would think a guilty verdict gets him the more votes. His cult seems to love the whole him vs the crooked Biden machine story he paints.

He gained support with charges among primary voters who were inclined the charges were lawfare.

I think a conviction would lead to a different response with the general electorate.

[hyped78]

I think it's worse for him to be found guilty.

If he's found Not Guilty, Republicans will have arguments about the process being the punishment and Democrats using lawfare against a politician they don't like. I don't think swing voters will hear the message that the system worked. They'll hear all the ways the trial hurt the campaign and Donald Trump and his family.

If he's found Guilty, there is a easy soundbite summary that Donald Trump was convicted of the felony of falsifying records to pay off a porn star he slept with while his wife was pregnant, in order to benefit his campaign.

The bigger question would be how much of a difference it would make. But if it hurts him by about three points (my rough estimate) that's enough to make the difference from a close race to Obama's 2012 reelection.

"Not guilty" isn't the same as "Innocent" though

[aja_christopher]

You didn't address my point on whether you completely agree with the video, and why anyone should take the messenger seriously.

And you didn't address any of the conservative bigotry and fascism exposed in said video or any other provided.

Or why someone who supports a party that promotes racism and homophobia should be taken seriously with regards to objective morality and ethical behavior.

Let's leave it at that.