Sagat vs Iron Fist

[MacrossPlus]

One on One
In a Madripoor Fight Club

Who wins?

[Android 17]

Sagat would wash Danny all the way back to K’un Lun

[grampagen]

Sagat would wash Danny all the way back to K’un Lun

That sure is an exhaustive list of things Sagat has done which proves this call.

[Android 17]

That sure is an exhaustive list of things Sagat has done which proves this call.

And you adequately explained why his Tiger Shots wouldn’t phase Iron Fist. I stand corrected.

[grampagen]

You made the assertion, you back it up with proof. I'd like to take you at your word in good faith, but I remain skeptical.

Sagat is dealing with someone who:
- dodges automatic gunfire while moving towards the shooter.
- gets up from impacts like this
- can down the SHIELD helicarrier by punching it

I have not seen Sagat verifiably perform anything to compete with this, besides beating a brainwashed Ryu in Alpha 3, an oppponent who likewise has iffy feats below Danny's, but let me know if I've missed something.

[Android 17]

You made the assertion, you back it up with proof. I'd like to take you at your word in good faith, but I remain skeptical.

Sagat is dealing with someone who:
- dodges automatic gunfire while moving towards the shooter.
- gets up from impacts like this
- can down the SHIELD helicarrier by punching it

I have not seen Sagat verifiably perform anything to compete with this, besides beating a brainwashed Ryu in Alpha 3, an oppponent who likewise has iffy feats below Danny's, but let me know if I've missed something.

I would still give Sagat the edge over Danny because of all things, he could tap into the Satsui No Hado and that would be game over for Iron Fist. Sagat and Ryu traded victories with each other across the game's canon, but I just don't think Danny could win against any of them. He uses too much of that ki, he's drained, but we haven't seen anything that shows Sagat using his Tiger Shots tires him out.

[bruceleegreyhulk]

from All About Street Fighter Zero 3

Sagat can run down a 100meters reclining Buddah statue and Appeared by someone faster than the eye could track.

Adon's Story from the same supplement talks about a fight between Sagat and Nuakan. How orindary people couldn't keep up with their movements and how even strong warriors had a hard time keeping up with their movements.

So both stories do mention that Sagat is quite faster than a normal human. Probably not bullet timer speed, but just fast enough to blitz a normal person before they realize what happen

Danny wins in speed here.

[Sharpandpointies]

I would still give Sagat the edge over Danny because of all things, he could tap into the Satsui No Hado and that would be game over for Iron Fist.

The question is HOW would that be game over?

Danny is a person fast enough to catch sniper rifle rounds out of the air when he's debilitated by poison. He, as shown, breaks helicarriers. His Iron Fist strikes have also laid out people as durable as Luke Cage. He's considered to be one of the most skilled fighters in Marvel.

What actual feats does Sagat have to offer that will allow him to deal with this?

Sagat and Ryu traded victories with each other across the game's canon, but I just don't think Danny could win against any of them. He uses too much of that ki, he's drained, but we haven't seen anything that shows Sagat using his Tiger Shots tires him out.

Does it matter when Danny is fast enough to get to Sagat and hit Sagat with a punch that devastates a helicarrier?

We need feats for Sagat, and they're lacking at the moment.

And that's setting aside the fact that Danny, for some time now, has been fully capable of firing off multiple Iron Fist strikes without getting tired.

Sagat can run down a 100meters reclining Buddah statue and Appeared by someone faster than the eye could track.

Adon's Story from the same supplement talks about a fight between Sagat and Nuakan. How orindary people couldn't keep up with their movements and how even strong warriors had a hard time keeping up with their movements.

So both stories do mention that Sagat is quite faster than a normal human. Probably not bullet timer speed, but just fast enough to blitz a normal person before they realize what happen.

That's a good start. Comic Book Peak Human characters can casually blitz normal humans and move faster than their eyes can track. Danny is a high-end bullet-timer, quite a bit faster than that and fully capable of blitzing a comic book peak human.

What sort of feats does Sagat have that will allow him to -

1. Possibly keep up with a guy who catches sniper rifle rounds out the air when he's suffering from being poisoned?
2. Deal with getting punched in the face a few times by someone capable of driving a helicarrier out of the air with a single punch?

[grampagen]

I would still give Sagat the edge over Danny because of all things, he could tap into the Satsui No Hado and that would be game over for Iron Fist.

Sagat has done one thing with the Satsui no Hado: reject it.

He has never used it in combat, anything he could do with it is only speculative.

Maybe it would give him a nondescript increase to his various stats, but he has no showings to quantify this, and even his base level is based on scaling to his closest competition in Ryu - and even then, Ryu's feats are not Sagat's feats, but a basic benchmark.

Sagat and Ryu traded victories with each other across the game's canon, but I just don't think Danny could win against any of them.

Okay, based on what? You've stated your case, now list some feats.

My contention is that Iron Fist is faster, hits harder, and is more durable than either of them.

He uses too much of that ki, he's drained, but we haven't seen anything that shows Sagat using his Tiger Shots tires him out.

He won't need to use much of the ki to cross the distance and punch Sagat with a hit that makes a Metsu Shoryuken look tame.

We haven't seen anything that supports the speed and efficacy of Tiger Shots either.

Unless this an argument based on game mechanics, which is inadmissable as hard evidence.

[bruceleegreyhulk]

Danny's Iron fist is a class 100 punch. The only Street fighter character I know of who has close or is at class 100 striking strength is Akuma.

[Sharpandpointies]

Class 100 is going too far, but Danny certainly hits very hard.

[Len Ikari145]

Class 100 is going too far, but Danny certainly hits very hard.

I would put him at Class 80 at best in terms of striking power.

[Sharpandpointies]

I would put him at Class 80 at best in terms of striking power.

Entering into average Ben Grim territory at Danny’s absolute best isn’t 100% unreasonable. ^_^

[Slade1]

Entering into average Ben Grim territory at Danny’s absolute best isn’t 100% unreasonable. ^_^

Ben uses skyscrapers as swords, I don’t see IF anywhere close to that level.

[Sharpandpointies]

Ben uses skyscrapers as swords, I don’t see IF anywhere close to that level.

Hence me saying 'average Ben Grimm territory' (and spelling it correctly this time.)

I can totally see Ben, on an average day, hammering the helicarrier and making it crash. The skyscrapers as swords is more of a high-end feat. ^_^