Emma Frost Appreciation 2024

[GoingGreen]

Hey White Queen fam -

I'm just here to say, "Is it your dress?"

Also, as a Polaris fan... I See You.

Emma and Lorna deserved better.

(in spite...great episode, and for what little she was given, I loved Emma's characterization)

[OldManLogan]

Again with your looney toons comparison. It's not the same at all. Emma was a supporting character in EoE. The Phoenix Sagas were introduced as Jean stories point blank period.

I gotta say, calling Emma a supporting character in the story that launched her to the big leagues - the same story where she was the only known survivor of a genocide and the one that described what happened (making her the closest to a POV character we got) AND the story where she is the one to take revenge on Nova for Genosha - has to be the hottest take I've read in this thread for a while.

Exodus' comparison is on point. EE is the story that put Emma on the map. She was the breakout star in the 00's specifically because of the run that started with that story. Excluding Emma from such a story IS as bad as excluding Kitty from DoFP or Jean from the Phoenix Saga. This is the story that promoted her to a main character, and characters are the most important part of any story. So yes, removing one of the main people hurts the story as a whole, specially when there are multiple massacres in this franchise they could've picked IF they didn't want Emma to be part of it.

IF - and only if, because from what I gather the story ain't over and she can still emerge from the rubble - E is for Extinction is over and Emma isn't part of it, that's a huge hit against the adaptation of this storyline.

Beau does not deserve the vitriol you're directing at him just because your favs don't get attention. I'm sorry, but it's unlikely Emma will be front and center anytime soon. She's only a compelling modern character because she was shown as pretty evil and ambitious at first... and they just are not focusing on that right now. It's not the story they're trying to tell. It's their own thing and a lot of people need to accept it.

Emma's general fanbase, I think, has been at peace with the fact she wouldn't be front and center since Beau first tweeted his opinions on her and modern comics, that's not the problem. What is different now is that they thought this would be centered in 90s stories only, now a 00's story was included. It's not 00's X-Men if Emma Frost is not there, she's absolutely mandatory.

If her being sidelined in adaptations was the exception instead of the rule, that would be different. But you have to remember you're in the appreciation thread of a character whose fanbase is constantly told to "wait for their turn" over and over for the past 2,5 decades in every adaptation, except their time never comes, despite her being one of the main characters and plot-relevant to the main story during that entire time.

The last time she was a villain in the source material, I still wasn't able to read. The first time she joined the main cast during EfE, I was still in school. She never stopped being relevant since then. Her being redeemed in any adaptation should not be up to debate, it's mandatory. Her eventually getting to the main team, permanently, front and center should not be up to debate either. Not because she's one of my favorites, but because those are plot relevant changes to the team roster that heavily affected the direction of the franchise. No other series, in any media I follow, is this slow (or unwilling) to catch up with the source material.

And she's only a compelling modern character because at some point writers decided to invest on her POV. This won't happen here or any adaptation if fundamental chunks of her character are given to others. What some people do need to understand is that the X-Men fanbase is extremely diverse, with people from various ages and backgrounds, and no matter how successful the show is, it will never appeal to everybody.

[OldManLogan]

With all that said, I do think if the story ain't over it's too early to judge how good or bad Emma (or anyone else really) is treated.
Also, X-Men 97's success is great to bring the X-Men back to prominence and guarantee we get more X-Men projects. Maybe once this nostalgia wave is over we get something closer to modern X-Men.

Also, for those that care about EmmaXScott, even in Wolverine & the X-Men they did the whole affair thing in a way that was less controversial. If Maddie really is dead, maybe they'll bond over their respective losses in the massacre. The only thing I wouldn't want in this scenario is Emma joining the X-Men through Scott.

I didn't know how I'd feel about anyone other than Kari Wahlgren voicing Emma but Martha Marion was pretty good for the amount of lines she got.

Now THIS is unforgivable! Kari Wahlgren is THE Emma Frost! WE RIOT!
I jest :P

[RAWRlrus]

Emma's general fanbase, I think, has been at peace with the fact she wouldn't be front and center since Beau first tweeted his opinions on her and modern comics, that's not the problem. What is different now is that they thought this would be centered in 90s stories only, now a 00's story was included. It's not 00's X-Men if Emma Frost is not there, she's absolutely mandatory.

If her being sidelined in adaptations was the exception instead of the rule, that would be different. But you have to remember you're in the appreciation thread of a character whose fanbase is constantly told to "wait for their turn" over and over for the past 2,5 decades in every adaptation, except their time never comes, despite her being one of the main characters and plot-relevant to the main story during that entire time.

The last time she was a villain in the source material, I still wasn't able to read. The first time she joined the main cast during EfE, I was still in school. She never stopped being relevant since then. Her being redeemed in any adaptation should not be up to debate, it's mandatory. Her eventually getting to the main team, permanently, front and center should not be up to debate either. Not because she's one of my favorites, but because those are plot relevant changes to the team roster that heavily affected the direction of the franchise. No other series, in any media I follow, is this slow (or unwilling) to catch up with the source material.

And she's only a compelling modern character because at some point writers decided to invest on her POV. This won't happen here or any adaptation if fundamental chunks of her character are given to others. What some people do need to understand is that the X-Men fanbase is extremely diverse, with people from various ages and backgrounds, and no matter how successful the show is, it will never appeal to everybody.

Exactly this point. His takes on her are atrocious but felt largely irrelevant since this was a continuation of TV show that began before her heroic turn started. Its disappointing to hear her be in a show and stuck as a villain when she hasn't been for so much more of her history, but she was a villain and its an important part of the character we enjoy.

But then they adapted a story from the time she was heroic. The story is big for the character and not just that but the character is big for the story. So yeah, people are understandably annoyed and disappointed iconic moments (for and because of their characters) are instead likely to be given out to other characters. Is it possible Emma and Lorna get their fair share, maybe. But with the writer's comments (at least about Emma) I don't get a good feeling.

[Frontier]

Well, she didn't really do anything villainous yet...other than being catty, but it's Emma .

[jmc247]

That can be said about literally ANY story in the context you're using it. Even the Dark Phoenix Saga in fact it's been done in What ifs. The only person I've seen arguing in bad faith is you. The showrunner had an agenda which he wasn't afraid to hide. And as Old Man Logan pointed out it was never the affair he had an issue with it was with who the affair was. He also admittingly never read any of the 00s material.
FYI
It was done in What it's Jean never became the Phoenix and Wolverine or Storm took her place.

Where did he admit he never read any of the 00s stuff?

I can say I have in the past been mildly critical of the comments I have seen from him which amount to the early 90s take on characters is definitive and the true versions of characters.

Needless to say Lorna won’t be growing out of the early 90s at any rate even though they are adopting modern stories post 90s. I accepted she wouldn’t grow out of the 90s if they stuck to a 80s/90s script, but that isn’t what they are doing.

[ExodusCloak]

Where did he admit he never read any of the 00s stuff?

I can say I have in the past been mildly critical of the comments I have seen from him which amount to the early 90s take on characters is definitive and the true versions of characters.

Needless to say Lorna won’t be growing out of the early 90s at any rate even though they are adopting modern stories post 90s. I accepted she wouldn’t grow out of the 90s if they stuck to a 80s/90s script, but that isn’t what they are doing.

When he was having a meltdown re Emma and Krakoa in the twitter account that he eventually deleted.

[ExodusCloak]

I gotta say, calling Emma a supporting character in the story that launched her to the big leagues - the same story where she was the only known survivor of a genocide and the one that described what happened (making her the closest to a POV character we got) AND the story where she is the one to take revenge on Nova for Genosha - has to be the hottest take I've read in this thread for a while.

Exodus' comparison is on point. EE is the story that put Emma on the map. She was the breakout star in the 00's specifically because of the run that started with that story. Excluding Emma from such a story IS as bad as excluding Kitty from DoFP or Jean from the Phoenix Saga. This is the story that promoted her to a main character, and characters are the most important part of any story. So yes, removing one of the main people hurts the story as a whole, specially when there are multiple massacres in this franchise they could've picked IF they didn't want Emma to be part of it.

IF - and only if, because from what I gather the story ain't over and she can still emerge from the rubble - E is for Extinction is over and Emma isn't part of it, that's a huge hit against the adaptation of this storyline.



Emma's general fanbase, I think, has been at peace with the fact she wouldn't be front and center since Beau first tweeted his opinions on her and modern comics, that's not the problem. What is different now is that they thought this would be centered in 90s stories only, now a 00's story was included. It's not 00's X-Men if Emma Frost is not there, she's absolutely mandatory.

If her being sidelined in adaptations was the exception instead of the rule, that would be different. But you have to remember you're in the appreciation thread of a character whose fanbase is constantly told to "wait for their turn" over and over for the past 2,5 decades in every adaptation, except their time never comes, despite her being one of the main characters and plot-relevant to the main story during that entire time.

The last time she was a villain in the source material, I still wasn't able to read. The first time she joined the main cast during EfE, I was still in school. She never stopped being relevant since then. Her being redeemed in any adaptation should not be up to debate, it's mandatory. Her eventually getting to the main team, permanently, front and center should not be up to debate either. Not because she's one of my favorites, but because those are plot relevant changes to the team roster that heavily affected the direction of the franchise. No other series, in any media I follow, is this slow (or unwilling) to catch up with the source material.

And she's only a compelling modern character because at some point writers decided to invest on her POV. This won't happen here or any adaptation if fundamental chunks of her character are given to others. What some people do need to understand is that the X-Men fanbase is extremely diverse, with people from various ages and backgrounds, and no matter how successful the show is, it will never appeal to everybody.

This again, this is actually therapeutic. Hopefully they put Craig Kyle on this show.

[ExodusCloak]

I gotta say, calling Emma a supporting character in the story that launched her to the big leagues - the same story where she was the only known survivor of a genocide and the one that described what happened (making her the closest to a POV character we got) AND the story where she is the one to take revenge on Nova for Genosha - has to be the hottest take I've read in this thread for a while.

Exodus' comparison is on point. EE is the story that put Emma on the map. She was the breakout star in the 00's specifically because of the run that started with that story. Excluding Emma from such a story IS as bad as excluding Kitty from DoFP or Jean from the Phoenix Saga. This is the story that promoted her to a main character, and characters are the most important part of any story. So yes, removing one of the main people hurts the story as a whole, specially when there are multiple massacres in this franchise they could've picked IF they didn't want Emma to be part of it.

IF - and only if, because from what I gather the story ain't over and she can still emerge from the rubble - E is for Extinction is over and Emma isn't part of it, that's a huge hit against the adaptation of this storyline.



Emma's general fanbase, I think, has been at peace with the fact she wouldn't be front and center since Beau first tweeted his opinions on her and modern comics, that's not the problem. What is different now is that they thought this would be centered in 90s stories only, now a 00's story was included. It's not 00's X-Men if Emma Frost is not there, she's absolutely mandatory.

If her being sidelined in adaptations was the exception instead of the rule, that would be different. But you have to remember you're in the appreciation thread of a character whose fanbase is constantly told to "wait for their turn" over and over for the past 2,5 decades in every adaptation, except their time never comes, despite her being one of the main characters and plot-relevant to the main story during that entire time.

The last time she was a villain in the source material, I still wasn't able to read. The first time she joined the main cast during EfE, I was still in school. She never stopped being relevant since then. Her being redeemed in any adaptation should not be up to debate, it's mandatory. Her eventually getting to the main team, permanently, front and center should not be up to debate either. Not because she's one of my favorites, but because those are plot relevant changes to the team roster that heavily affected the direction of the franchise. No other series, in any media I follow, is this slow (or unwilling) to catch up with the source material.

And she's only a compelling modern character because at some point writers decided to invest on her POV. This won't happen here or any adaptation if fundamental chunks of her character are given to others. What some people do need to understand is that the X-Men fanbase is extremely diverse, with people from various ages and backgrounds, and no matter how successful the show is, it will never appeal to everybody.

I also realised that he went as far to say that Cyclops delve into villainy re Rightclops etc and forming X-Force was all due to corruption from Emma. But he went and threw in some of it here anyway without any Emma influence.

[salarta]

If someone has a screencap or archive of when he said he didn’t read 00s comics, that would be helpful. Demonstrates he wanted to exploit an event from the 00s that he knows is impactful without actually respecting what happened and what it meant when it was told.

Hopefully, fans pointing out all of these problems with X-Men 97 will lead to future projects doing right with Genosha and respecting Emma, Lorna, and any other characters screwed over by this false adaptation.

[salarta]

Emma fans, can you give me a reading list of material relevant to Emma's experiences with the Genoshan genocide and with Cassandra Nova? It's okay if there's some differences in what various fans think, but I'm hoping to get some direction from people who know her much better than me.

[ExodusCloak]

Emma fans, can you give me a reading list of material relevant to Emma's experiences with the Genoshan genocide and with Cassandra Nova? It's okay if there's some differences in what various fans think, but I'm hoping to get some direction from people who know her much better than me.

E is for Extinction - Emma Frost and Xavier shut down the Snow Valley Academy and she is relocated to Genosha to teach while an investigation into a detectives death is being investigated. Genosha is raised assunder by the Wild Sentinels, Emma walks out to enact revenge on Cassandra Nova who actually manages to swap bodies with Xavier before she gets her neck snapped.

Dark Reign the Cabal and Astonishing X-Men try and build on ghost but this an experience Emma is not willing to share and hasn't to date.

In Imperial Emma tricks Cassandra Nova into thinking Stuffs body is her own. She's trapped in an elaborate psychic plan and reprogrammed. Ernst then appears and this was a mistake on Joss Whedons part.

Before Cassandra Nova is trapped she plants a psychic echo in Emma's mind distorting her perception. Cassandra plays on Emma's survivors guilt over the loss of her students and surviving Genosha. Makes her think she's evil and she was working against the X-Men the entire time. She wasn't she brought in Kitty cause she knew something was wrong. Anyway Emma expel Nova from. Her mind.

They meet again in Marauders V2 where she and Kitty get revenge on Nova.

Judgement day touch on her guilt as well. And so does that Infinity comic with Negasonic Teenage Warhead.

[OldManLogan]

This again, this is actually therapeutic.

Thanks, glad you feel this way about the comment.

Emma fans, can you give me a reading list of material relevant to Emma's experiences with the Genoshan genocide and with Cassandra Nova? It's okay if there's some differences in what various fans think, but I'm hoping to get some direction from people who know her much better than me.

In my country the numbering of the issues is different from the US, so I'll mention the general stories instead:

1) As you may know already, Emma's diamond form not only nullifies her own telepathy, it also cancels her feelings. As in, she becomes apathetic, unable to feel anger, sorrow, happiness, etc. The fact that this form was unlocked during the massacre - not only that, she was stuck as a diamond until help arrived - has resulted in a theory that this aspect of her diamond form is her body's response to prevent her from feeling the trauma. That's never been confirmed anywhere as far as I know, but it does fit perfectly, and to this day when Emma is feeling particularly sad, angry, etc she still turns to diamond to avoid the feeling.

2) In New X-Men itself, when Jean discorvers the affair and faces Emma, she makes Emma face various periods of her life. Her past in the Hellfire Club, her childhood... Emma only breaks when Jean shows her the bodies of her students.

3) Whedon's entire Astonishing run, but 2 parts in specific: at the very beginning, when she gives the whole speech that ends with "they'll always hate us", using Sentinel imagery to prove her point. Also at the end of the fake Hellfire Club arc, it's explained that Nova was able to manipulate Emma by playing with her survivor's guilt.

4) Civil war, Tony comes to her asking for help and Emma lashes at him and asks him where were the Avengers when Genosha burned. After the depowered students die in Decimation, a similar scene plays again, this time with Emma and Carol Danvers.

5) Basically every time the mutants banded together in an island ever since then, she is very vocal about it being a bad idea and will cite Genosha to prove her point. She was against Utopia and Krakoa for this very reason, though she stuck with her people despite that.

[darkalamator]

I would add Necrosha to the reading list.. Emma plays a couple of significative survivor´s guilt moments there and she also orders X Force to kill Selene.

[Digifiend]

This precisely, I also believe that journey is thus diluted because of everything you've outlined above.

That said I don't see this playing out that way due to the lack of set up. She probably won't even appear for the rest of the season and all of this will be reset by time travel.

The next ep is a Storm ep followed by a Cyclops ep.

I mean the head writer just confirmed Moira and Maddie dead. Plus we have Shaw, Banshee and Callisto dead

Um, if Moira's dead, wouldn't that result in a time reset? I think they forgot the comics revealed she's a mutant, lol! Should've just put her in a coma.