Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2024.

[godisawesome]

Post-OMD/BND Peter has always given me strong "writers aren't really sure how to write him anymore" energy.

I feel like Spencer did a decent job of writing him mature, experienced, without feeling old though.

I think Spider-Man is a victim of his own popularity. I don't know how Marvel gets out of this situation they've built for themselves, but I also think they don't want to get out of this situation they've built for themselves. So they can endlessly regurgitate the same stories over and over again with slight variations from now until the time they stop publishing comics. The other, non-comic, media in this franchise are all about coming of age and growing up, but poor comic Peter is stuck in this endless cycle of repeating the same stories over and over again.

And for MJ, that means breaking up and getting back with Peter over and over and over again until Marvel stops publishing comics.

That was the point of OMD. That is its enduring legacy.

It’s almost like Peter (and to an extent, MJ as his love interest) did such an effective job ending the repetitive and overtly cyclical Silver Age that the entire industry changed to follow him, mostly because he never abided by those “rules” in the first place... only for him to become the modern poster-child for an attempted reinstitution of those same rules, more so than other characters (who tend to either stay “progressed” or get rebooted so they *can* progress.)

[Spider-Tiger]

It’s almost like Peter (and to an extent, MJ as his love interest) did such an effective job ending the repetitive and overtly cyclical Silver Age that the entire industry changed to follow him, mostly because he never abided by those “rules” in the first place... only for him to become the modern poster-child for an attempted reinstitution of those same rules, more so than other characters (who tend to either stay “progressed” or get rebooted so they *can* progress.)

I wouldn't say just Spider-man even, but the bulk of Marvel comics of the 60s-80s (Particularly Claremont's X-men) were complete game changers. And then DC followed Marvel's lead with the Teen Titans, Miller Batman, Byrne Superman, Perez Wonder Woman, etc. But somewhere along the lines (the 90s), Marvel's creations became "too popular", the speculator bubble burst, and editors adopted a "brand management" strategy whereby these characters can never veer too far from an established "evergreen" point for too long. And this strategy has just gotten progressively more flagrant and has likely contributed to the slow demise of comics.

[Daibhidh]

Which just makes no sense at all as the kids never seemed to be important enough to actually do much, did they even have names...

Of course they were important enough to be given names. They were so important they were given names more than once.

[Huntsman Spider]

Which just makes no sense at all as the kids never seemed to be important enough to actually do much, did they even have names...

Of course they were important enough to be given names. They were so important they were given names more than once.

The boy was Owen and the girl was either Romy or Stephanie. Even Wells couldn't be bothered keeping their names straight.

I wouldn't say just Spider-man even, but the bulk of Marvel comics of the 60s-80s (Particularly Claremont's X-men) were complete game changers. And then DC followed Marvel's lead with the Teen Titans, Miller Batman, Byrne Superman, Perez Wonder Woman, etc. But somewhere along the lines (the 90s), Marvel's creations became "too popular", the speculator bubble burst, and editors adopted a "brand management" strategy whereby these characters can never veer too far from an established "evergreen" point for too long. And this strategy has just gotten progressively more flagrant and has likely contributed to the slow demise of comics.

Yeah, though it's especially pointed with Spider-Man, as at least the other heroes (and villains) in the MU are allowed to meaningfully progress and not automatically be reset to "factory defaults" after a run ends.

[Garlador]

Of course they were important enough to be given names. They were so important they were given names more than once.

Lol. I needed a good laugh.

[CTTT]

I'm a fan of Peter/MJ. I love the couple. I understand OMD at the time made some kind of sense. They wanted to shake things up. But 17 years of this? And the marriage isn't reinstated? Why? Are editorial afraid of writing for a married stable couple? Reed and Sue say hi. It can be done and be interesting just takes effort. It's like if editorial were a person and looked up at the sky. It's blue very obvious everyone can see it. But they shake their head and say "no, it's green." Fans have been crying for years to reinstate the marriage. Listen.

[Garlador]

I'm a fan of Peter/MJ. I love the couple. I understand OMD at the time made some kind of sense. They wanted to shake things up. But 17 years of this? And the marriage isn't reinstated? Why? Are editorial afraid of writing for a married stable couple? Reed and Sue say hi. It can be done and be interesting just takes effort. It's like if editorial were a person and looked up at the sky. It's blue very obvious everyone can see it. But they shake their head and say "no, it's green." Fans have been crying for years to reinstate the marriage. Listen.

I’ve been catching up on Jeremy Adams’s The Flash run lately and it’s frustrating to read it and then compare it to 616 Peter and MJ, largely because it’s so fun and creative and also because of how essential and integral Wally and Linda’s relationship and marriage is. It’s the best “Spider-Man” book I’ve read in awhile as Wally struggles to pay bills, work his job, be a superhero, and find time for his wife and kids.

And Linda is written with such strength and agency as a wife and mother with her own career, her own dreams and responsibilities, that it really spits all over any of the old Spidey Office excuses that marriage makes Peter too old or unremarkable or unrelatable, just because the dating drama is over. In Adams’s book, Linda is important. She’s got her own frustrations, her own fears, her own struggles, balanced against the understanding and joys of being married to a superhero who is such a good man but doesn’t always put her first in his life (hard to when “saving the world” is a daily responsibility). But they’re written with such love and care that their marriage absolutely, positively ENHANCES the book and characters. It is a better comic - and they are better characters - with this status quo.

I boggles my mind that Spidey Office continues to feel differently. Having a partner in your corner is a boon for almost any superhero, and for Peter that absolutely was MJ at her best.

[Frontier]

I enjoyed Adams' run though I found Linda with powers a bit too much and was happy that was just a one-off .

Nick Spencer showed you can write a good run with a mature, capable, Peter and him and MJ together even if she's not even consistently in the book (but she still has impact even when she's gone).

[Garlador]

I enjoyed Adams' run though I found Linda with powers a bit too much and was happy that was just a one-off .

Nick Spencer showed you can write a good run with a mature, capable, Peter and him and MJ together even if she's not even consistently in the book (but she still has impact even when she's gone).

Honestly, that's exactly how I would have done it with MJ too. Linda getting powers was designed as an intentional temporary thing, and the reason she even had them was due to a life-changing event that brought her and Wally closer together. Her losing those powers has also let her better understand the world from her husband's perspective - how fast life goes by with him, and how difficult it is to slow down and enjoy the quiet moments. Si Spurrier's done a decent job tackling her postpartum along with the loss of those powers, as she better grasps just how "lacking" she is in comparison to a hero with godlike superspeed, and the alienation she feels having only just sampled a glimpse of his world. And yet he doesn't view her as inferior or a burden; she's what drives him onward and makes life worth the living.

In a better timeline, with a better status quo, I would have loved this same arc to be applied to Mary Jane and Peter. And maybe in a better future, we can get someone like Adams to write the couple and their marriage from this same interesting perspective. One day.

[Huntsman Spider]

I'm a fan of Peter/MJ. I love the couple. I understand OMD at the time made some kind of sense. They wanted to shake things up. But 17 years of this? And the marriage isn't reinstated? Why? Are editorial afraid of writing for a married stable couple? Reed and Sue say hi. It can be done and be interesting just takes effort. It's like if editorial were a person and looked up at the sky. It's blue very obvious everyone can see it. But they shake their head and say "no, it's green." Fans have been crying for years to reinstate the marriage. Listen.

I’ve been catching up on Jeremy Adams’s The Flash run lately and it’s frustrating to read it and then compare it to 616 Peter and MJ, largely because it’s so fun and creative and also because of how essential and integral Wally and Linda’s relationship and marriage is. It’s the best “Spider-Man” book I’ve read in awhile as Wally struggles to pay bills, work his job, be a superhero, and find time for his wife and kids.

And Linda is written with such strength and agency as a wife and mother with her own career, her own dreams and responsibilities, that it really spits all over any of the old Spidey Office excuses that marriage makes Peter too old or unremarkable or unrelatable, just because the dating drama is over. In Adams’s book, Linda is important. She’s got her own frustrations, her own fears, her own struggles, balanced against the understanding and joys of being married to a superhero who is such a good man but doesn’t always put her first in his life (hard to when “saving the world” is a daily responsibility). But they’re written with such love and care that their marriage absolutely, positively ENHANCES the book and characters. It is a better comic - and they are better characters - with this status quo.

I boggles my mind that Spidey Office continues to feel differently. Having a partner in your corner is a boon for almost any superhero, and for Peter that absolutely was MJ at her best.

I enjoyed Adams' run though I found Linda with powers a bit too much and was happy that was just a one-off .

Nick Spencer showed you can write a good run with a mature, capable, Peter and him and MJ together even if she's not even consistently in the book (but she still has impact even when she's gone).

Honestly, that's exactly how I would have done it with MJ too. Linda getting powers was designed as an intentional temporary thing, and the reason she even had them was due to a life-changing event that brought her and Wally closer together. Her losing those powers has also let her better understand the world from her husband's perspective - how fast life goes by with him, and how difficult it is to slow down and enjoy the quiet moments. Si Spurrier's done a decent job tackling her postpartum along with the loss of those powers, as she better grasps just how "lacking" she is in comparison to a hero with godlike superspeed, and the alienation she feels having only just sampled a glimpse of his world. And yet he doesn't view her as inferior or a burden; she's what drives him onward and makes life worth the living.

In a better timeline, with a better status quo, I would have loved this same arc to be applied to Mary Jane and Peter. And maybe in a better future, we can get someone like Adams to write the couple and their marriage from this same interesting perspective. One day.

All of this. So much.

[Kevinroc]

https://twitter.com/RyanStegman/stat...19082863370665

[Huntsman Spider]

https://twitter.com/RyanStegman/stat...19082863370665

Stegman drawing Mary Jane was one of the better parts of the Superior Spider-Man launch, at least in my view.

[Frontier]

Stegman drawing Mary Jane was one of the better parts of the Superior Spider-Man launch, at least in my view.

The art was great. The content...eh.

[Coop]

The MJ and Paul stuff this week is blurgh. Truly awful

[Kevinroc]

The MJ and Paul stuff this week is blurgh. Truly awful

For the health of this thread we don't talk about such things around these parts.