Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2024.

[TinkerSpider]

Nobody outside of the comics division cares about comic sales. And even then, I wonder how much the people in the comics division actually care about comic sales. As you said they are leaving money on the table. ASM remains one of Marvel's best-selling titles and unless its sales completely collapse, I wouldn't expect any actual changes.

Disney likes making money. Disney also has some of the best analysts around.

I’m not trying to stop you from being pessimistic.

But I do know how business analysis works. If a product is doubling the sales of your best selling product, you pay attention.

[Spider-Tiger]

Nobody outside of the comics division cares about comic sales. And even then, I wonder how much the people in the comics division actually care about comic sales. As you said they are leaving money on the table. ASM remains one of Marvel's best-selling titles and unless its sales completely collapse, I wouldn't expect any actual changes.

The way I see it: Nothing is going to change substantially at Marvel (even beyond the Spider-man line) until leadership changes, and that could require turnover of quite a few people still at Marvel. Brevoort (from who this enragement quote originated) is still VP of publishing.They will likely continue to interpret the figures to mean whatever they want it to mean. And as you pointed out, ASM is likely still doing well enough.

However, I think USM is here to stay for a while. And if it continues to be as successful as it is, I think it could influence the entire IP down the line across media, which, in turn, could influence where future leadership decided to take the main book. Such as with USM vol 1 (which wasn't even anywhere near doubling ASM numbers.)

For now, I'm pleased to see that the top selling Spider-man book by a (potentially) wide margin is both a marriage book and doesn't even belong to the current Spider-Man office. And that the Jackpot and Black Cat debut couldn't even crack the weekly top 10. Those are enough wins for me. And hopefully enough for editorial to choose a better direction for the next run.

[Kevinroc]

Disney likes making money. Disney also has some of the best analysts around.

I’m not trying to stop you from being pessimistic.

But I do know how business analysis works. If a product is doubling the sales of your best selling product, you pay attention.

Never said you didn't. Just saying I have seen no indication that they care about the comics at all.

The way I see it: Nothing is going to change substantially at Marvel (even beyond the Spider-man line) until leadership changes, and that could require turnover of quite a few people still at Marvel. Brevoort (from who this enragement quote originated) is still VP of publishing.They will likely continue to interpret the figures to mean whatever they want it to mean. And as you pointed out, ASM is likely still doing well enough.

However, I think USM is here to stay for a while. And if it continues to be as successful as it is, I think it could influence the entire IP down the line across media, which, in turn, could influence where future leadership decided to take the main book. Such as with USM vol 1 (which wasn't even anywhere near doubling ASM numbers.)

For now, I'm pleased to see that the top selling Spider-man book by a (potentially) wide margin is both a marriage book and doesn't even belong to the current Spider-Man office. And that the Jackpot and Black Cat debut couldn't even crack the weekly top 10. Those are enough wins for me. And hopefully enough for editorial to choose a better direction for the next run.

I'm looking at the next generation of movies. Tom Holland isn't going to play Peter Parker forever. And while I fully expect Miles Morales to headline his own live-action Spider-Man film series, I don't think we will be long without a new take on Peter Parker in film. That's where they could potentially look at Hickman's USM run as inspiration to differentiate themselves from all the other Peter Parker film series.

But that's gonna be a long wait and who knows how different things will be by then.

[Tuck]

Disney likes making money. Disney also has some of the best analysts around.

I’m not trying to stop you from being pessimistic.

But I do know how business analysis works. If a product is doubling the sales of your best selling product, you pay attention.

Marvel's best selling product, not Disney's.

If Marvel's not losing money or causing reputational harm, why would Disney get into the weeds of things?

[Spider-Tiger]

I'm looking at the next generation of movies. Tom Holland isn't going to play Peter Parker forever. And while I fully expect Miles Morales to headline his own live-action Spider-Man film series, I don't think we will be long without a new take on Peter Parker in film. That's where they could potentially look at Hickman's USM run as inspiration to differentiate themselves from all the other Peter Parker film series.

But that's gonna be a long wait and who knows how different things will be by then.

I'm looking at a married Spider-Man more generally. Right now, a married Spider-Man is the hottest thing in comics. And a 90s revival series is one of the hottest comic book adaptations. With rumblings of both a revival of the animated series (likely) and the Raimi series (less likely), and the Spider-verse trilogy yet to be concluded, we could see a married Peter Parker as the dominant portrayal across media before the end of the next decade. And that's excluding any direct Hickman USM adaptations in the future.

[Kevinroc]

I'm looking at a married Spider-Man more generally. Right now, a married Spider-Man is the hottest thing in comics. And a 90s revival series is one of the hottest comic book adaptations. With rumblings of both a revival of the animated series (likely) and the Raimi series (less likely), and the Spider-verse trilogy yet to be concluded, we could see a married Peter Parker as the dominant portrayal across media before the end of the next decade. And that's excluding any direct Hickman USM adaptations in the future.

I'll give you the perfect gif to use.

[Frontier]

Jackpot and Black Cat not landing in the top 10 is perhaps the biggest source of relief for me. Hopefully, that'll further encourage them to trash that concept entirely.

It is probably a death knell for the Jackpot concept if not even pairing it with Black Cat could make it sell.

Ironically, Mary Jane as Peter’s significant other EXPANDED the supporting cast because it pulled in MJ’s friends and family too. Aunt Anna took on a bigger role, MJ’s sister and her trauma with her father became important, Peter was an Uncle to Gayle’s kids too, MJ’s cousin Kristy was introduced, MJ herself had a circle of friends close to her - from Gloria to Sandy to Jill to others.

Once MJ was deprioritized, it took much of her supporting cast along with her.

And now she's just got...Paul.

I'm looking at the next generation of movies. Tom Holland isn't going to play Peter Parker forever. And while I fully expect Miles Morales to headline his own live-action Spider-Man film series, I don't think we will be long without a new take on Peter Parker in film. That's where they could potentially look at Hickman's USM run as inspiration to differentiate themselves from all the other Peter Parker film series.

But that's gonna be a long wait and who knows how different things will be by then.

Yeah, it probably depends a lot on MCU/Sony but if they keep Spider-Man stuff centered in the MCU, then they'll have to keep that up for as long as the MCU lasts more or less unless Sony decides to break off and do more of their own Spider-Man stuff (that's not dumb stuff like trying to make Madame Web or Spider-Man villains viable movie properties).

[Kaitou D. Kid]

As I just said literally a few moments ago.

What is the reason Disney doesn't usually care about the comics division, though? Is it because they don't care about maximizing their profits anywhere they can, or because nothing unusual in terms of money and PR happens in the comics department most of the time?' It's the latter, right?

That's my point. Both Wells' run and Hickman's USM count as "unusual" (albeit for different reasons). Someone is going to notice the PR backlash and unusual revenue, respectively.

And it doesn't have to be someone from Disney. Feige or anyone higher than Brevoort within Marvel noticing it would be enough.

Yeah, I think as long as they're not losing money and not causing some kind of PR disaster that escapes the niche fan bubble, Disney doesn't care what Marvel does. Disney owns Marvel for the movies, television shows, toys, and video games.

Ship sailed lol.

Kamala's death made mainstream headlines.

[Frontier]

What is the reason Disney doesn't usually care about the comics division, though? Is it because they don't care about maximizing their profits anywhere they can, or because nothing unusual in terms of money and PR ever happens in the comics department?' It's the latter, right?

That's my point. Both Wells' run and Hickman's USM count as "unusual" (albeit for different reasons). Someone is going to notice the PR backlash and unusual revenue, respectively.

And it doesn't have to be someone from Disney. Feige or anyone higher than Brevoort within Marvel noticing it would be enough.

I feel like we've seen Disney and Feige being so hands off with the comic division that I'm not sure what it would take for them to get involved, because it doesn't seem like anything's ever happened.

Ship sailed lol. Kamala's death made mainstream headlines.

Yeah, but now she's with the X-Men so people have kind of moved on already (whether or not you have an actual opinion about her being with the X-Men).

[Kevinroc]

The comics are basically market research for them to test out ideas for movies, shows, games, etc. The studio doesn't care about them at all beyond that.

[Tuck]

Yeah, but now she's with the X-Men so people have kind of moved on already (whether or not you have an actual opinion about her being with the X-Men).

That, and it incidentally happened in a Spider-Man book. Even if it inspired Disney to poke its nose into Marvel, it wouldn't have been, "we don't like what you did with this not-Spider-Man character in a Spider-Man book, we're going to need you to put Peter and Mary Jane back together."

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I feel like we've seen Disney and Feige being so hands off with the comic division that I'm not sure what it would take for them to get involved, because it doesn't seem like anything's ever happened.

Again, I feel like we are too fixated on Disney here. It doesn't have to be Disney who overrules someone like Cebulski or Brevoort.

Someone within Marvel who is somewhat in charge of the comics division (Buckley, etc.) would be enough.

Yeah, but now she's with the X-Men so people have kind of moved on already (whether or not you have an actual opinion about her being with the X-Men).

Let's not downplay how bad the PR was last summer, though.

[Frontier]

Again, I feel like we are too fixated on Disney here. It doesn't have to be Disney who overrules someone like Cebulski or Brevoort.

Someone within Marvel who is somewhat in charge of the comics division (Buckley, etc.) would be enough.

Fair enough, but again, it doesn't seem like enough has happened to require someone stepping in and shaking things up beyond the inevitable ASM relaunch when Wells wraps up.

Let's not downplay how bad the PR was last summer, though.

I'm not, just saying that they seem focused on other things right now.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Fair enough, but again, it doesn't seem like enough has happened to require someone stepping in and shaking things up beyond the inevitable ASM relaunch when Wells wraps up.

I'm not, just saying that they seem focused on other things right now.

I think that at minimum, they'll at least go back to something akin to Spencer's status quo and stay there (even if they don't undo OMD).

I just can't see them being allowed to continue the BND status quo post-Wells given all the PR backlash.

[Kevinroc]

I think that at minimum, they'll at least go back to something akin to Spencer's status quo and stay there (even if they don't undo OMD).

I just can't see them being allowed to continue the BND status quo post-Wells given all the PR backlash.

I thought Wells was going to have Peter and MJ reconcile at the end of his run (or at least leave it for the next creative team to decide) since the beginning. The BND creators are obsessed with Spider-Man 2 (Raimi) even if they don't understand that movie.

The thing is there is nothing to prevent another break-up after this. For all this talk of a PR backlash, ASM remains one of Marvel's best-selling titles. Things aren't going to change. Peter and MJ will continue to be on-again/off-again from now until Marvel stops publishing comics.

That was the real mission statement of OMD.