Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2024.

[TinkerSpider]

Plenty of sources claim "MILF" comes from American Pie, even though that term had been around for years already, and had mostly gone out of use by then.

Source? Because it's one thing for a phrase to be used by a niche group, it's another for a phrase to enter the common lexicon. And then another to make it into the OED or Merriam-Webster.

MILF is still very much in use, go look at comments about Checchetto's MJ artwork LOL

And you're welcome to believe MJ's entrance is the worst of the worst. Awesome! So stipulated! We all have opinions.

All I can do, again, is point to all the evidence and remind people that 1965 was almost sixty years ago and audiences of the time had their own semiotics that might not be easily apparent to readers today :shrug. And regardless, that opening line is still referenced almost sixty years later, to the point that Marvel is trying, again, to make Jackpot a thing. But alas, the character of Jackpot is not even fetch (Mean Girls the Musical film is opening next week).

[Tuck]

MILF is still very much in use,

I'm aware. Because it was revived by American Pie.

Mainstream pop culture - and especially comics - has a consistent history of being behind the curve on trends.

[TinkerSpider]

I'm aware. Because it was revived by American Pie.

Mainstream pop culture - and especially comics - has a consistent history of being behind the curve on trends.

Because they are written six months or more ahead of publication date. And yes, they are mainstream. They need to be understood by a mass audience. That's how they make money.

I'm not sure what your argument is now. MJ's entrance isn't killer because she uses a word that was in common use by advertisers at the time?

The only pop culture references that are good are the ones that are so obscure only a small niche group understands them before the words enter the common lexicon?

I do think there is a double edged sword to using pop culture references, because they can grow to be dated quite fast. And then there is this run, which used such cutting edge references as Seabiscuit and the Mighty Mighty Bosstones in early issues, which is just headscratching.

[Tuck]

You're reading too much into my criticism.

It's a bizarre line. I feel like the cop's reaction to Peter relaying it in To Have and to Hold pretty much sums it up.

(Can't find the image, but he says something along the lines of, "that's something a crazy person says.")

[TinkerSpider]

You're reading too much into my criticism.

It's a bizarre line. I feel like the cop's reaction to Peter relaying it in To Have and to Hold pretty much sums it up.

(Can't find the image, but he says something along the lines of, "that's something a crazy person says.")

Oh, see, that's why I love it!

Because MJ IS supposed to be out there and not part of Peter's world. It's a line that does a great job of revealing character. She's confident, she's sexy, she doesn't care about playing the 1960s nice girl next door that she was set up to be by Aunt May's descriptions. She's going to come into Peter's life and upend it. That was her original purpose as a character - to be the sexy spoiler among the Coffee Bean gang and a contrast to Gwen, who was the more socially conventional "nice girl," to be the "wild and crazy one" to borrow from an old Steve Martin routine.

And then like all good characters she went on a character journey and grew and changed in response to her situations and her relationships. For her first four decades, at least.

[Frontier]

Let Mary Jane be flamboyant .

[Spider-Tiger]

It's a campy theatrical line that's not meant to be taken so seriously. I doubt that anyone in the history of humanity ever walked around talking like Mae West. But it was Mae West's way of speaking that made her such a memorable and entertaining character. Dialogue like that probably wouldn't land very well today because dialogue in comics and comic adaptations prioritize believability. But I personally find some of that campiness of the older material to be charming. MJ is a good mix of both.

Let Mary Jane be flamboyant .

Amen

[Kevinroc]

I think MJ's dialogue under Stan's pen was charming. I know the intention was for her to be a comic relief side character, but I think it's really funny that she ended up overshadowing the actual canonical love interest.

[Astroman]

I'm going to definitely work, "Well pierce my ears and call me drafty..." into a conversation soon.

[godisawesome]

I think MJ's dialogue under Stan's pen was charming. I know the intention was for her to be a comic relief side character, but I think it's really funny that she ended up overshadowing the actual canonical love interest.

See, I’m not as surprised, since Lee was writing that during a transition period of comics, where he and Romita Sr. we’re on the cutting edge of trying new stuff out…

…And likely simply stumbled onto the fact that comedic characters suddenly acting serious automatically has more weight than a serious character being serious, and immediately establishes a greater degree of psychology to a character.

I'd bet money the second that Stan Lee scripted a bit where MJ went from “the hit and funny hippy girl” to “…who actually has something important she needs you to know, and knows how to switch her ‘voice’ for that,” it was likely just as much of a revelation as when he first had Spidey mock a villain in a way that worked.

[Kevinroc]

See, I’m not as surprised, since Lee was writing that during a transition period of comics, where he and Romita Sr. we’re on the cutting edge of trying new stuff out…

…And likely simply stumbled onto the fact that comedic characters suddenly acting serious automatically has more weight than a serious character being serious, and immediately establishes a greater degree of psychology to a character.

I'd bet money the second that Stan Lee scripted a bit where MJ went from “the hit and funny hippy girl” to “…who actually has something important she needs you to know, and knows how to switch her ‘voice’ for that,” it was likely just as much of a revelation as when he first had Spidey mock a villain in a way that worked.

That's clearly what Gerry Conway thought. That there was more to MJ than meets the eye.

[Huntsman Spider]

That's clearly what Gerry Conway thought. That there was more to MJ than meets the eye.

Beating the Transformers to the punch by a decade.

[Garlador]

Beating the Transformers to the punch by a decade.

Well, it's established she's part dump truck.

[Huntsman Spider]

Well, it's established she's part dump truck.

Ha, good one.

[Daibhidh]

associating her with gambling just because Stan Lee gave her a killer opening line.

It's not even her opening line. It's just the first thing she says to Peter.
(Furthermore, I think the only plausible way of reading that scene is that she's good-naturedly teasing Peter by saying what she can see Peter is thinking: it's Peter's reaction really.)
As a way of giving her an identity separate from Peter the only way it could be less effective is if she took the hero name Spider-Ex-Girlfriend.