Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2024.

[Garlador]

It's clear the original intention was supposed to be that MJ and Paul were romantically involved, but somewhere along the way they started pulling back on that idea. As to what happened and why, we can only speculate. I fully expect that relationship to get revealed as non-romantic and non-sexual (whether that's from Wells or a future creative team). The fact that they've never so much as kissed on-panel makes that much easier.

It raises so many other questions, but at this point I'll take that mess over what was initially implied.

Topically, my group was bringing up old interviews with the Marvel guys about OMD and some of Tom Brevoort's comments in particular, that he felt the marriage and relationship with Peter turned her into a "wistful, soulless husk" compared to her more spirited incarnation pre-marriage. I know hindsight is 20/20, but I feel like she's been written more as a "soulless husk" for the majority of the post-BND era than any of the marriage years.

If this is what he viewed as a boring, soulless woman...


then I'll happily take that version over the "improvement" they've offered.


I've long argued that Peter and MJ actually made each other MORE fun and enjoyable, not the opposite. Apart, they're less happy and less interesting. Together, they elevate each other and the entire book.

[Kevinroc]

It raises so many other questions, but at this point I'll take that mess over what was initially implied.

Topically, my group was bringing up old interviews with the Marvel guys about OMD and some of Tom Brevoort's comments in particular, that he felt the marriage and relationship with Peter turned her into a "wistful, soulless husk" compared to her more spirited incarnation pre-marriage. I know hindsight is 20/20, but I feel like she's been written more as a "soulless husk" for the majority of the post-BND era than any of the marriage years.

If this is what he viewed as a boring, soulless woman...


then I'll happily take that version over the "improvement" they've offered.


I've long argued that Peter and MJ actually made each other MORE fun and enjoyable, not the opposite. Apart, they're less happy and less interesting. Together, they elevate each other and the entire book.

The problem with OMD/BND is Peter has big "divorced guy" energy. So by extension, MJ has to have big "ex-wife" energy. Because they were scared of actually rewriting large sections of continuity, that relationship between Peter and MJ still technically existed post-OMD.

What Quesada and co. wanted was impossible. Peter could never reclaim that "youthful energy" that they claimed they were after. Not without massive continuity changes that they were unwilling to do. So they've essentially shoved their fingers in their ears, claim this was for the long-term health of the franchise, and whittled away what made these characters so popular in the first place.

I'm still expecting Wells to write a half-hearted reconciliation (or at least an ambiguous reconciliation) as the finale to this run. Given how the rest of this run has gone, I don't have high expectations for the scene.

[Astroman]

I'm still expecting Wells to write a half-hearted reconciliation (or at least an ambiguous reconciliation) as the finale to this run. Given how the rest of this run has gone, I don't have high expectations for the scene.

I have a feeling, after this run is over, everyone will think something similar to the old WWII rationing slogan about the entire thing: "Was this trip, really necessary?"

[MisterTorgo]

It raises so many other questions, but at this point I'll take that mess over what was initially implied.

Topically, my group was bringing up old interviews with the Marvel guys about OMD and some of Tom Brevoort's comments in particular, that he felt the marriage and relationship with Peter turned her into a "wistful, soulless husk" compared to her more spirited incarnation pre-marriage. I know hindsight is 20/20, but I feel like she's been written more as a "soulless husk" for the majority of the post-BND era than any of the marriage years.

If this is what he viewed as a boring, soulless woman...


then I'll happily take that version over the "improvement" they've offered.


I've long argued that Peter and MJ actually made each other MORE fun and enjoyable, not the opposite. Apart, they're less happy and less interesting. Together, they elevate each other and the entire book.

As far as I'm concerned, something as narratively sloppy as One More Day/Brand New Day would have required nearly 100% buy-in from the audience to work, for them to be willing to let go of the confusing past and present, because swaths of the retcon don't make sense. Without that buy-in, and with people constantly questioning it, there's no way it could have been ultimately satisfying. This is one really good example.

[Kevinroc]

I have a feeling, after this run is over, everyone will think something similar to the old WWII rationing slogan about the entire thing: "Was this trip, really necessary?"

People think like that now.

[Astroman]

People think like that now.

Yeah, I meant the minority of folks who are still giving this run a chance to redeem itself.

[Huntsman Spider]

It raises so many other questions, but at this point I'll take that mess over what was initially implied.

Topically, my group was bringing up old interviews with the Marvel guys about OMD and some of Tom Brevoort's comments in particular, that he felt the marriage and relationship with Peter turned her into a "wistful, soulless husk" compared to her more spirited incarnation pre-marriage. I know hindsight is 20/20, but I feel like she's been written more as a "soulless husk" for the majority of the post-BND era than any of the marriage years.

If this is what he viewed as a boring, soulless woman...


then I'll happily take that version over the "improvement" they've offered.


I've long argued that Peter and MJ actually made each other MORE fun and enjoyable, not the opposite. Apart, they're less happy and less interesting. Together, they elevate each other and the entire book.

Preach the gospel.

[Frontier]

The problem with OMD/BND is Peter has big "divorced guy" energy. So by extension, MJ has to have big "ex-wife" energy. Because they were scared of actually rewriting large sections of continuity, that relationship between Peter and MJ still technically existed post-OMD.

What Quesada and co. wanted was impossible. Peter could never reclaim that "youthful energy" that they claimed they were after. Not without massive continuity changes that they were unwilling to do. So they've essentially shoved their fingers in their ears, claim this was for the long-term health of the franchise, and whittled away what made these characters so popular in the first place.

I'm still expecting Wells to write a half-hearted reconciliation (or at least an ambiguous reconciliation) as the finale to this run. Given how the rest of this run has gone, I don't have high expectations for the scene.

Post-OMD/BND Peter has always given me strong "writers aren't really sure how to write him anymore" energy.

I feel like Spencer did a decent job of writing him mature, experienced, without feeling old though.

[Kevinroc]

Post-OMD/BND Peter has always given me strong "writers aren't really sure how to write him anymore" energy.

I feel like Spencer did a decent job of writing him mature, experienced, without feeling old though.

I think Spider-Man is a victim of his own popularity. I don't know how Marvel gets out of this situation they've built for themselves, but I also think they don't want to get out of this situation they've built for themselves. So they can endlessly regurgitate the same stories over and over again with slight variations from now until the time they stop publishing comics. The other, non-comic, media in this franchise are all about coming of age and growing up, but poor comic Peter is stuck in this endless cycle of repeating the same stories over and over again.

And for MJ, that means breaking up and getting back with Peter over and over and over again until Marvel stops publishing comics.

That was the point of OMD. That is its enduring legacy.

[Huntsman Spider]

I think Spider-Man is a victim of his own popularity. I don't know how Marvel gets out of this situation they've built for themselves, but I also think they don't want to get out of this situation they've built for themselves. So they can endlessly regurgitate the same stories over and over again with slight variations from now until the time they stop publishing comics. The other, non-comic, media in this franchise are all about coming of age and growing up, but poor comic Peter is stuck in this endless cycle of repeating the same stories over and over again.

And for MJ, that means breaking up and getting back with Peter over and over and over again until Marvel stops publishing comics.

That was the point of OMD. That is its enduring legacy.

Pretty much, and over at DC, Batman's having the same issues, except somewhat worse, because unlike with Marvel, DC continues to uphold Batman as a, if not the, major pillar of its universe, so we end up with Batman as the focal point of everything while his characterization backslides into the same regressive, self-destructive patterns that (a lot of) fans got sick and tired of years ago. In a nutshell, they are not only victims of their own popularity, but also victims of a reigning mindset amongst editorial that doesn't allow for real or lasting growth, change, or evolution outside or beyond a certain paradigm that editorial seems to prefer for them. It's frankly deeply disappointing and disgusting, not to mention disheartening as a long-term fan of both of those iconic characters.

[Frontier]

I think Spider-Man is a victim of his own popularity. I don't know how Marvel gets out of this situation they've built for themselves, but I also think they don't want to get out of this situation they've built for themselves. So they can endlessly regurgitate the same stories over and over again with slight variations from now until the time they stop publishing comics. The other, non-comic, media in this franchise are all about coming of age and growing up, but poor comic Peter is stuck in this endless cycle of repeating the same stories over and over again.

And for MJ, that means breaking up and getting back with Peter over and over and over again until Marvel stops publishing comics.

That was the point of OMD. That is its enduring legacy.

Honestly I think good writing and a writer that really seems to care about the character and the lore would help.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

MJ is looking like even she's confused as to why she's with Paul, and is being blackmailed into it and is miserable.

[Huntsman Spider]

Honestly I think good writing and a writer that really seems to care about the character and the lore would help.

This, too, yeah.

[Huntsman Spider]

MJ is looking like even she's confused as to why she's with Paul, and is being blackmailed into it and is miserable.

Technically, that was after "the kids" were absorbed back into Benjamin Rabin or otherwise dispelled for having outlived their purpose as "chains" to bind Mary Jane to Paul, so she was still grieving despite them not even being real.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Which just makes no sense at all as the kids never seemed to be important enough to actually do much, did they even have names...