Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider/Spider-Man Appreciation 2024.

[Refrax5]

Sound like the usual Wells and Lowe crap. Hopefully this is the last Ben appearance by Wells for awhile. I only check the spoilers to ASM to see if they killed him or fixed him. Either option is preferable to Chasm for me.

I know people feel like being dead has less opportunities than being Chasm. I don't agree. My expectations of the Chasm/Kaine mini are that it will be fluff and meaningless. Especially based on the who cares villain reveal.

Well, there's still that Scarlet Spider "things to come" cover. I get that we aren't happy with what's going on, but the overwhelming negativity and anger gets a little tiring.

[JustLuke]

Even if his quest to get those memories back is hurting himself and others? It felt more like somebody who's obsession and unhappiness with themselves drove them over them over the edge and realizing that they need to stop before more damage is done.

I also don't believe that the only thing that made Ben a hero were Peter's memories. Spidercide had Peter's memories, too, and the guy's an ass.

I just viewed it as Janine telling him that obsessing over what he lost and trying to recapture the past was ruining their lives and they had to accept what's happened and get on with their lives. I don't see that as inherently bad.

I don't think they're saying it's just Peter's memories though? Like unless I'm mistake Ben also lost a lot of his own memories that shaped who he was, I assume stuff like his years on the road and his time as Scarlet Spider and Spider-Man in the 90s.

That's honestly why I have difficulty getting into Chasm at all personally. It's Ben Reilly without most of makes him Ben Reilly. He's basically just Amazing Fantasy #15 Peter without Uncle Ben or Aunt May in his life and also he has blonde hair and a purple and green suit. Hell, that's more or less what Wells has described him as in interviews. That's not anything to me. That's not an interesting character to me, and it's especially not what I want out of Ben Reilly. And if this is what the character is gonna be from now on then I don't have much interest in following him anymore.

[Sr. Bungle]

I don't think they're saying it's just Peter's memories though? Like unless I'm mistake Ben also lost a lot of his own memories that shaped who he was, I assume stuff like his years on the road and his time as Scarlet Spider and Spider-Man in the 90s.

That's honestly why I have difficulty getting into Chasm at all personally. It's Ben Reilly without most of makes him Ben Reilly. He's basically just Amazing Fantasy #15 Peter without Uncle Ben or Aunt May in his life and also he has blonde hair and a purple and green suit. Hell, that's more or less what Wells has described him as in interviews. That's not anything to me. That's not an interesting character to me, and it's especially not what I want out of Ben Reilly. And if this is what the character is gonna be from now on then I don't have much interest in following him anymore.

Just saw tge page and I have a pretty positive outlook on it for the first time since Chasm

[JustLuke]

Just saw tge page and I have a pretty positive outlook on it for the first time since Chasm

I'm gonna wait for the issue to come out to see. I hope I end up feeling the same way

[Coop]

I'll continue to just keep my fingers crossed this is the last issue Wells writes Chasm and the character can just be shelved for awhile til someone with a take I find more interesting comes along

[Garlador]

Even if his quest to get those memories back is hurting himself and others? It felt more like somebody who's obsession and unhappiness with themselves drove them over them over the edge and realizing that they need to stop before more damage is done.

Yes. ESPECIALLY if this is the story they are trying to tell. I neither want a Ben that harms others nor a Ben that’s incomplete without the experiences that shaped him.

I just viewed it as Janine telling him that obsessing over what he lost and trying to recapture the past was ruining their lives and they had to accept what's happened and get on with their lives. I don't see that as inherently bad.

It’s a loss of self. It’s literally a character death to lose the most important part of yourself and effectively start over as a totally new person, especially since the person he was before was an incredible, selfless, compelling hero who suffered much and overcame it.

I’ll put it like this; in an old JRPG I love called Shadow Hearts: Covenant, the main hero is cursed to lose his soul and memories, restarting him as a blank slate if he can’t find a cure in time. The GOOD ending has him do all he can, but he’d rather die as the man he was with the people he loves, as himself. The BAD ending has him accept it and lose everything that made him who he was, all those precious memories and experiences, a shell of his former self that is pitied.

I’d rather Ben die as he was than live as a shell of his former self. And I say that as someone who genuinely prefers Ben over Peter most of the time.

[Coop]

Having seen the pages, imo it's a bit of a mess and not much of a cathartic moment for anyone. Eve and Chasm are joyfully resigning themselves to their current state.

The most generous read of the pages is that Chasm and Eve probably won't attack Peter again and maybe will not be full blown evil. If it were a different creative team besides Lowe and Wells, I would say maybe there's a tease that they show up again to help Peter.

Which puts Chasm's arc as: I'm mad because my brain is scrambled eggs and I misremembered it as completely your fault to My brain is still scrambled eggs and maybe that makes me evil and dragging my girlfriend to hell with me, but it's okay because love.

Maybe Curse of Kaine spin that Chasm not obsessed with revenge on Peter does something not a: stupid (That's what the book called his plan for Dark Web. And what I'm calling his plan to trust Queen Goblin) and b: Outright evil (unleashing hell, teaming up with a murdering psychopath to stick his head in a brain washing machine). So if that's good enough for you, by all means.

For anyone looking for more steps towards a return of Ben Reilly, the pages I read seem to affirm that Chasm is sticking around. Which is nothing I'll be celebrating. I'll be hoping Curse of Kaine is a shockingly poor seller

[JustLuke]

Having seen the pages, imo it's a bit of a mess and not much of a cathartic moment for anyone. Eve and Chasm are joyfully resigning themselves to their current state.

The most generous read of the pages is that Chasm and Eve probably won't attack Peter again and maybe will not be full blown evil. If it were a different creative team besides Lowe and Wells, I would say maybe there's a tease that they show up again to help Peter.

Which puts Chasm's arc as: I'm mad because my brain is scrambled eggs and I misremembered it as completely your fault to My brain is still scrambled eggs and maybe that makes me evil and dragging my girlfriend to hell with me, but it's okay because love.

Maybe Curse of Kaine spin that Chasm not obsessed with revenge on Peter does something not a: stupid (That's what the book called his plan for Dark Web. And what I'm calling his plan to trust Queen Goblin) and b: Outright evil (unleashing hell, teaming up with a murdering psychopath to stick his head in a brain washing machine). So if that's good enough for you, by all means.

For anyone looking for more steps towards a return of Ben Reilly, the pages I read seem to affirm that Chasm is sticking around. Which is nothing I'll be celebrating. I'll be hoping Curse of Kaine is a shockingly poor seller

I do wonder if the best way to get Ben Reilly back is if Chasm: Curse of Kaine tanks. Like maybe if people don't buy it they'll finally get it through their heads that people don't want Ben as Chasm, but there's also a chance they'll spin it as people not caring about Ben and use that as an excuse to get rid of him, either by killing him or just shelving him indefinitely, so idk. I'm conflicted.

[Sr. Bungle]

Is Refrax banned? Well I guess I would have to be the positive one for a change in this thread.

Is this the ideal outcome? Not even close, but is a step in the right direction. Ben doesn't want ti get revenge on Peter and he and Janine don't want people hurt because of their action. Again, is this great? No, but a person with amnesia is not the same as a deranged revenge - fueled psychopath. It seems that Ben now just misses his Peter memories and not his Lost Years ones

[Coop]

I do wonder if the best way to get Ben Reilly back is if Chasm: Curse of Kaine tanks. Like maybe if people don't buy it they'll finally get it through their heads that people don't want Ben as Chasm, but there's also a chance they'll spin it as people not caring about Ben and use that as an excuse to get rid of him, either by killing him or just shelving him indefinitely, so idk. I'm conflicted.

I mean, if someone enjoys Chasm and finds him to be an compelling, interesting, continuation of Ben Reilly's story or just better than nothing? They should probably support the books financially because imo this last issue pretty strongly suggests to me at least that Chasm is sticking and Ben won't get his memories back for the foreseeable future. Seemingly that they will be 90s Venom-esque anti-heroes.

For me personally, there's not enough here to make me preorder or blind buy Curse of Kaine. I'll flip through at the shop or check the spoilers and if I'm wrong or the direction after this does seem compelling I'll be happy to eat crow and support the book.

But based on what we've previously gotten and what's in this issue, there's not really anything of the character I enjoyed in Chasm so it's an easy skip.

To end on a positive, hopefully this is the last time Wells writes either character but especially Janine. In her own mini she was a complicated and interesting character dealt a raw deal and trying to do good. I don't see a lot of that in Wells version of the character.

[Pav]

I mean, if someone enjoys Chasm and finds him to be an compelling, interesting, continuation of Ben Reilly's story or just better than nothing? They should probably support the books financially because imo this last issue pretty strongly suggests to me at least that Chasm is sticking and Ben won't get his memories back for the foreseeable future. Seemingly that they will be 90s Venom-esque anti-heroes.

Bolded because that's been my stance. I understand opposing arguments -- especially from those who don't consider Chasm to be the "real" Ben, or those who don't want to support a story idea they don't like -- but for me, this IS Ben, and even though I don't like this chapter in his "life," I want to support my favorite character through all the ups and downs of storytelling. The continuation of Chasm as his status quo doesn't have to inherently be awful, and my hope is that other writers can breathe some life into the concept -- and that, eventually, Ben will once again be the hero we all know he can and should be.

There's an alternate reality where JMD writes Ben as Chasm and it's not so bad -- maybe it's even good!

-Pav, who wonders when his Chasm powers will be solidified...

[Sr. Bungle]

Bolded because that's been my stance. I understand opposing arguments -- especially from those who don't consider Chasm to be the "real" Ben, or those who don't want to support a story idea they don't like -- but for me, this IS Ben, and even though I don't like this chapter in his "life," I want to support my favorite character through all the ups and downs of storytelling. The continuation of Chasm as his status quo doesn't have to inherently be awful, and my hope is that other writers can breathe some life into the concept -- and that, eventually, Ben will once again be the hero we all know he can and should be.

There's an alternate reality where JMD writes Ben as Chasm and it's not so bad -- maybe it's even good!

-Pav, who wonders when his Chasm powers will be solidified...

This is my stance in the matter too, and Ben being dead could mean he goes the way of the Dr Druids of the world.

They're not doubling down on Ben being a moustache twirling villain at least and he's ....well not spoiler talk until tomorrow.

[Coop]

For me personally, I enjoyed the time where there was no Ben more than this current era. Probably because after OMD I was content to just ignore the franchise til Beyond lol. So my Ben fandom has now just resulted in me reading a lot of truly awful comics I would have missed. The most villainous crime he's committed yet. I'm sure Pav will sound the alarm if he ever gets his memories back and I'll be happy to throw money at that story

I do feel that the concept of a Ben Reilly without his memories wearing a costume with claws embarrassing and inherently awful. So I'll be doing my part to not financially support it. Everything is in the execution, but from looks to personality to origin there's nothing in Chasm I want to spend money on.

[HypnoHustler]

I'd accept a compromiso if he remains his full Ben memories somehow.

IMG_8476.jpg

Save the compromises for Congress. I want my 90s Ben back and won’t accept anything less than perfection.

[Sr. Bungle]

IMG_8476.jpg

Save the compromises for Congress. I want my 90s Ben back and won’t accept anything less than perfection.

They're leaving that open, but a less unhinged Ben path to beeing a good guy a clearer path that he could take, the memories could come back in any moment. ("they're were always there, just buried but this x situation somehow awakened them")