Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider/Spider-Man Appreciation 2024.

[Sr. Bungle]

Just something that hit me a couple days ago.

We basically had three storylines engineered to get Spider-Man back to single status. The first was the Clone Saga, then we had Mary Jane's planedeath, then we had One More Day.

Mary Jane's planedeath gave us a depressed Peter Parker and one of the most aimless state of affairs before Spencer's run wrapped and Marvel decided to give us a masterclass on the subject; the cause of the whole debacle was some sort of psychic leech person who exploded himself in solitude or somesuch. Then, we have One More Day, which basically requires no introduction, and became a proverbial dead albatross stuck around Marvel's neck - one that they'll douse with perfume and insist is not there, whenever the far-reaching implications to the mythos besides "make Spidey single" is mentioned.

By comparison, Clone Saga basically gave us Ben Reilly and Kaine, even while in the process of getting to that much desired status quo (the fact it didn't last is another matter entirely), and didn't much have to basically bend all of the Marvel Universe in half in order for it to happen OR be undone. I would say that, by comparison, it's definitely an utter embarassment of riches when compared to the direct repercussions of any of the other attempts.

(the fact Marvel was desperate to pretend it never happened is probably just the ironic cherry on the top, I suppose?)

Maybe because at the begginig the Clone saga wasn't supposed to be about getting Spider-man single again, so the initial purpose was of another nature

[HypnoHustler]

Maybe because at the begginig the Clone saga wasn't supposed to be about getting Spider-man single again, so the initial purpose was of another nature

Pretty sure that was always the plan. At least if you believe ‘Life of Reilly’, the BTS series about the CS. Have Peter (revealed as the clone) retire and he and MJ ride off into the sunset. A single Ben Reilly for whatever reason takes the “Peter Parker” name (it was never explained why or how this would happen… and raises a lot of difficult questions) and becomes Spidey. The biggest difference is it was only supposed to be 6 months originally and wrap around ASM #400. But then marketing smelled money and yadda yadda, you know the rest.

[HypnoHustler]

If Marvel had the faith DC Comics had with Kyle Rayner/ Green Lantern, then maybe Ben could have had a few good years as Spider-Man. Sure, odds are that it would eventually be undone, but they really did Ben dirty by deciding to undo the whole story just three months into starting it. The fact that Ben has such a solid fanbase speaks volumes to how strong the character is.

If Ben Reilly was at least as successful as Wally West, then I theorize he would have lasted until 2001 or 2002. When the Raimi film was about to hit, they probably would’ve defaulted to Peter Parker coming back to capitalize on that. But Ben would have lived (like Kyle and Wally and other legacy characters) and hit the road again.

[Sr. Bungle]

If Ben Reilly was at least as successful as Wally West, then I theorize he would have lasted until 2001 or 2002. When the Raimi film was about to hit, they probably would’ve defaulted to Peter Parker coming back to capitalize on that. But Ben would have lived (like Kyle and Wally and other legacy characters) and hit the road again.

Ben died just to have on the page definitive proof that he was the clone. Ben was a vitim of the thing being too long. DeFalco wanted to have a Scarlet Spider bok out of the ordeal.

[HypnoHustler]

Ben died just to have on the page definitive proof that he was the clone. Ben was a vitim of the thing being too long. DeFalco wanted to have a Scarlet Spider bok out of the ordeal.

Yes, I realize that. But I was responding to the other poster’s hypothetical scenario of what if Marvel had stuck with Ben like DC (initially) had with their legacy characters.

[Sr. Bungle]

Yes, I realize that. But I was responding to the other poster’s hypothetical scenario of what if Marvel had stuck with Ben like DC (initially) had with their legacy characters.

Right. But they fumbled the thing by saying to the readers that the character they've been reading for the past 22 years wasn't who they thought he was. a real tragedy caused by editorial not knowing the audience.

[SturdyMike89]

If Ben Reilly was at least as successful as Wally West, then I theorize he would have lasted until 2001 or 2002. When the Raimi film was about to hit, they probably would’ve defaulted to Peter Parker coming back to capitalize on that. But Ben would have lived (like Kyle and Wally and other legacy characters) and hit the road again.

I agree completely. He was always going to be replaced by Peter when the movies came around, but he could have had a good run. The Wally West analogy is very apt. That book struggled during its first year until William Messner-Loebs took over and gave the book/character a sense of direction. Deciding to cut bait after only a few months did Ben no real favors.

[Sr. Bungle]

So, tomake a recap of what we know about the future of Ben

-Web of Spider-Man in March
-A variant cover of said issue with someone in Ben's old Scarlet Spider suit
-ASM #47 and #48 (we know it features Ben in his Chasm suit) and he's back with Janine
-Chasm: Curse of Kaine in the Summer ( a mini? an event?)

And almost not info in any of this. It drives me up the wall (pun intended)

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

-Chasm: Curse of Kaine in the Summer ( a mini? an event?)

I believe it's just a mini?

[Huntsman Spider]

So, tomake a recap of what we know about the future of Ben

-Web of Spider-Man in March
-A variant cover of said issue with someone in Ben's old Scarlet Spider suit
-ASM #47 and #48 (we know it features Ben in his Chasm suit) and he's back with Janine
-Chasm: Curse of Kaine in the Summer ( a mini? an event?)

And almost not info in any of this. It drives me up the wall (pun intended)

Web of Spider-Man next month does set up Chasm: Curse of Kaine, which may also deal with the ramifications of whatever happens in ASM 47-48 concerning The Chasm Formerly Known as Ben Reilly's reunion with Janine/Hallows' Eve and them going after Peter again.

[boots]

Right. But they fumbled the thing by saying to the readers that the character they've been reading for the past 22 years wasn't who they thought he was. a real tragedy caused by editorial not knowing the audience.

i have an (almost totally) unsupported suspicion that was more down to editorial cold-feet than actual palpable backlash. i think mackie, deflaco and others have alluded to their belief that ben could have worked for longer than he did, which i think indicates that sales weren't the only justification for the revolving door on ben's time as spidey.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

i have an (almost totally) unsupported suspicion that was more down to editorial cold-feet than actual palpable backlash. i think mackie, deflaco and others have alluded to their belief that ben could have worked for longer than he did, which i think indicates that sales weren't the only justification for the revolving door on ben's time as spidey.

Life of Reilly has pretty much confirmed that for a long while now - I think we're edging on it being two decades old, even. Not only does the usually touted "sales tanked" talking points not hold when you see the data we do have on Comichron, at least, Glenn Greenberg said in these articles that the editor that got the short end of the stick was done wrong (as long as you measure the line's success in sales, at least), and even Brevoort himself has said he agrees the guy didn't get a fair shake as recently as last year or so.

[Sr. Bungle]

Nothing with Ben in May solicits. I guess we'll have to wait to know what Curse of Kaine is about

[Sr. Bungle]

i have an (almost totally) unsupported suspicion that was more down to editorial cold-feet than actual palpable backlash. i think mackie, deflaco and others have alluded to their belief that ben could have worked for longer than he did, which i think indicates that sales weren't the only justification for the revolving door on ben's time as spidey.

That's true, they blame the Clone saga and Ben for the declining sales on Spider-Man, but it that people tend to omit the frigging COMIC BOOK CRASH, sales were declining fast all around the board and the Spider-Man titles were facing the storm better than almost anything else

[Refrax5]

I agree completely. He was always going to be replaced by Peter when the movies came around, but he could have had a good run. The Wally West analogy is very apt. That book struggled during its first year until William Messner-Loebs took over and gave the book/character a sense of direction. Deciding to cut bait after only a few months did Ben no real favors.

Had they kept to their original idea of having Ben take Peter's name and just live as Peter Parker---the logistics of which seem impossible---then you'd basically have a Peter Parker that had all the classic Lee/Ditko stories and beyond in his background, so he might have stuck around.

As blond-haired Ben Reilly? Yeah, probably not.

And honestly, as a Ben fan, I don't need him to be the "one, true Spider-Man" or even Spider-Man. As Spider-Man or as Scarlet Spider, I think Ben was always really interesting as his own character with his own enemies and backstory. Being a clone and wrestling with that, traveling the world and dealing with his own villains and friends, building his own life and identity made him more interesting to me than just being Peter 2.0.