IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2024

[ImperiusWrecked]

What a pretty Namor ... as he should be.

Both of those are hilarious!

Thanks! XD

Wow. This would indeed make striking tattoos! Are you going to get one?

No, but I do love to look at them, lol. Also if anyone ever uses the designs for their own tattoos that would be cool.

Epic Collections do not print in order. One of the pluses and minuses of the Epic Collections is that they try to put out volumes for issues that haven't been collected, or out of print, or rarely been collected. So, any Epic Collection will have holes in the run, as they jump around in volume number to cover gaps in previous collection publication. Usually, the first volume will come out, despite those issues almost always having been published / being available. Not sure why, but probably to suck people into buying, thinking they can start from the beginning and read all the way through.

Anyway, Epic Collection Subby vol. 2 looks like it will cover most of the Tales to Astonish run and the first couple of issues of the 68 Subby run. Those issues have been printed a few times, both in hardcover and paperback as Marvel Masterworks vol 1 and 2, and the digest size Mighty Marvel Masterworks Subby vol. 1 -- which is probably why it wasn't printed next. Epic Collection Subby vol. 3 covers issues that have only been printed / collected in the out of print hardcover Marvel Masterworks Subby. Honestly, I'm surprised they are doing these early volumes, instead of jumping ahead and finishing off the 90s run, cause there's some issues that have never been collected in that run. Granted, the 68 run is much better written and more expensive to buy as back issues, so it probably has more demand.

As for when Epic Collection Subby vol 2 will be published ... I wouldn't be surprised if it were after they finished the 68 Subby run... which might be after Epic Collection Subby vol. 5? I think -- at least 3 years.

Ahh ok, thanks Rev. I am curious as to when they will finish the 90s run, we only got Bryne Visionaries iirc

[ImperiusWrecked]

Namor Week Day 6 was Magic or Science, so I chose to highlight the beautiful Lady Dorma + Magic in a comic edit, you can see the full set here

[Anthony W]

Namor Week Day 6 was Magic or Science, so I chose to highlight the beautiful Lady Dorma + Magic in a comic edit, you can see the full set here

I'm thinking that by the time Aaron it's done Namor will not be King and Atlantis will be ruled by Dorma or be made into a democracy.

[Reviresco]

Thanks! XD



No, but I do love to look at them, lol. Also if anyone ever uses the designs for their own tattoos that would be cool.



Ahh ok, thanks Rev. I am curious as to when they will finish the 90s run, we only got Bryne Visionaries iirc

We've actually gotten over half of the 90s run published. All of Bryne and Jae Lee's run was printed in the Omnibus. The last issues of the 90s run were printed in the FF / Inhumans / Atlantis Rising trade. We are just missing the Glenn Herdling / Geoff Isherwood run... maybe 15 issues? I'm not going to say it's my least favorite, but it does have the Llyron arc. smh

Oh, and we need the 1984 mini-series, which I don't think has been collected ever.


Nice! I can easily see that MCU Namor being used.

[Reviresco]

Namor Week Day 6 was Magic or Science, so I chose to highlight the beautiful Lady Dorma + Magic in a comic edit, you can see the full set here

From that great issue where a bewitched Dorma tries to sacrifice Namor! lol

I'm thinking that by the time Aaron it's done Namor will not be King and Atlantis will be ruled by Dorma or be made into a democracy.

I doubt Aaron knows about Dorma. But there's Namora... who doesn't want to even be in Atlantis, but has been running things off and on for years, depending on whether or not the next writer pays attention to what has come before. smh

Yeah, I don't see democracy (or any other ruler) doing well in Atlantis, but that doesn't mean Aaron won't go there.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Namor Week is finished! Here's the blog with the fanworks for anyone to check out.

For my final day, I commissioned Pointdotiozao, Kisses for the Sea King, featuring my 8 favorite romance ships for Namor!



Also another fan, Shingummyy created this Nita & Namor art, where Nita gives Namor one of her earrings, for the final day that I thought was just so cute!

[K7P5V]

From that great issue where a bewitched Dorma tries to sacrifice Namor! lol

Indeed. Truly an All-Time Classic (IMHO):

I doubt Aaron knows about Dorma. But there's Namora... who doesn't want to even be in Atlantis, but has been running things off and on for years, depending on whether or not the next writer pays attention to what has come before. smh

Yeah, I don't see democracy (or any other ruler) doing well in Atlantis, but that doesn't mean Aaron won't go there.

I know, right?! If not the Lady Dorma, then my vote goes to Andromeda (XD)

[Doombot]

I know I'm in the minority on this board, but I still feel Dorma should remain dead. Just because many other characters have been dug up, over and over, by writers at Marvel doesn't mean it should be done with Dorma or that it's even a good idea. It's almost always done for either shock value or for a lack of any other creative concepts. I feel the main reason Dorma's shadow looms so heavily and her absence is felt so strongly still, stems from the problem that has faced the Sub-Mariner since the Silver Age: no ongoing book. Dorma, like many of Namor's supporting cast, is still so clung to by fans because she (and they) came from a time when Namor actually had a supporting cast. From a time he had a cast at all. Dorma was an important character in Namor's world and her death was tragic and helped define Namor's character forever afterwards. Bringing her back, in my opinion, is really just an attempt to fill a hole in the Namor mythos (and the hearts of fans), the gigantic void that his world has been languishing in for decades. The desire to have Dorma back is really a desire to have Sub-Mariner stories back, to have stories that mean something. To have an ongoing book full of characters, friends, lovers, villains, and world building that would take the place of that need to dig up old characters because no one is giving us new ones. (Not to mention Marvel having already dug up how many dead Subby characters at this point? Badly, I might add. 3? More?)

I get that Dorma was a major figure during a time when Marvel was establishing Namor as major player in their early days. She's the main supporting character back when Namor was being promoted, advertised and cared about by Marvel. (imagine that?) She's in ads and cartoons, and could be seen wherever Namor was seen. She was a founding Marvel female character, but I don't think that's reason enough to bring her back, and I feel the desire for her return is just a misplaced desire for "The Sub-Mariner" to return. Bringing Dorma back won't solve that issue. All it will do is put that classic character in the hands of an endless string of writers who know or care nothing about her and mangle her as badly as Namor has been for decades now, forever written as an out-of-character guest-star. She's safer in the grave.

[K7P5V]

Well, if 616 Lady Dorma isn't an option. Then I'd settle for Warrior Queen Dorma returning, instead...

[Oberon]

I know I'm in the minority on this board, but I still feel Dorma should remain dead. Just because many other characters have been dug up, over and over, by writers at Marvel doesn't mean it should be done with Dorma or that it's even a good idea. It's almost always done for either shock value or for a lack of any other creative concepts. I feel the main reason Dorma's shadow looms so heavily and her absence is felt so strongly still, stems from the problem that has faced the Sub-Mariner since the Silver Age: no ongoing book. Dorma, like many of Namor's supporting cast, is still so clung to by fans because she (and they) came from a time when Namor actually had a supporting cast. From a time he had a cast at all. Dorma was an important character in Namor's world and her death was tragic and helped define Namor's character forever afterwards. Bringing her back, in my opinion, is really just an attempt to fill a hole in the Namor mythos (and the hearts of fans), the gigantic void that his world has been languishing in for decades. The desire to have Dorma back is really a desire to have Sub-Mariner stories back, to have stories that mean something. To have an ongoing book full of characters, friends, lovers, villains, and world building that would take the place of that need to dig up old characters because no one is giving us new ones. (Not to mention Marvel having already dug up how many dead Subby characters at this point? Badly, I might add. 3? More?)

I get that Dorma was a major figure during a time when Marvel was establishing Namor as major player in their early days. She's the main supporting character back when Namor was being promoted, advertised and cared about by Marvel. (imagine that?) She's in ads and cartoons, and could be seen wherever Namor was seen. She was a founding Marvel female character, but I don't think that's reason enough to bring her back, and I feel the desire for her return is just a misplaced desire for "The Sub-Mariner" to return. Bringing Dorma back won't solve that issue. All it will do is put that classic character in the hands of an endless string of writers who know or care nothing about her and mangle her as badly as Namor has been for decades now, forever written as an out-of-character guest-star. She's safer in the grave.

I am one who agrees with you. I think Dorma would be best served as a thought of Namor's, a memory, beloved and informing.

Maybe more should be brought out about their long history as distant/semi-distant cousins, and how Namor reflects on them.
****
Maybe it seems Namor, his creators have boxed themselves in a corner.
Realizing that Namor has great allure to be seen as a romantic interest by nearly all women he encounters.

Whether it is design or by accident. Sue and he have evolved and are true, good friends and despite the usual prickly behavior between members of the FF

and Namor, they should be written better when they encounter each other.
Hey, Torch dated Nita for a while; he could have been some sort of cousin-in-law to Namor.

So I think Namor should be sexy, to most females, and a good friend to men or women who know and care about him.
I think he should always remember Dorma but yeah, he should move on

I've always favored Andromeda too, as someone else mentions.

[Oberon]

I realize I didn't mention Marrina at all

not even sure if I spelled her name correctly.

I never really liked her as Namor's wife. It was not very convincing. I'd like to chalk it up to her weird biological drives and abilities that somehow created their interaction. After all Namor too is the product of rarely mixed genetics, or at least at the time.

I also didn't mention any of the other women involved with Namor, many I don't know much about.
Emma Frost, defintiely didn't care for that. Almost an 'anti-Sue' if you think about it a certain way.
In the initial storyline of Tiger Shark, waaaaaay back,
I thought Namor should be attracted to Diane Arliss but that ended up going another way. Now her I liked, and thought was a worthy human

and unattached

female for Namor.
Well as the saying goes, "the heart wants what the heart wants".
Being honest, I think Namor has more value to Marvel/comics by always being some sort of provocateur or instigator

with women or with men, for other reasons.
So it may be unlikely that he'll ever be in a happy relationship. And that actually is sad.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Marrina's been back and alive for years now without ever meeting Namor again, I would have at least liked some closure, maybe a scene where they meet, just to check up on each other, and agree they are both not getting back together/wish each other well. But Marrina was never a super popular character so I doubt we'll ever get that closure.

I know I'm in the minority on this board, but I still feel Dorma should remain dead. Just because many other characters have been dug up, over and over, by writers at Marvel doesn't mean it should be done with Dorma or that it's even a good idea. It's almost always done for either shock value or for a lack of any other creative concepts. I feel the main reason Dorma's shadow looms so heavily and her absence is felt so strongly still, stems from the problem that has faced the Sub-Mariner since the Silver Age: no ongoing book. Dorma, like many of Namor's supporting cast, is still so clung to by fans because she (and they) came from a time when Namor actually had a supporting cast. From a time he had a cast at all. Dorma was an important character in Namor's world and her death was tragic and helped define Namor's character forever afterwards. Bringing her back, in my opinion, is really just an attempt to fill a hole in the Namor mythos (and the hearts of fans), the gigantic void that his world has been languishing in for decades. The desire to have Dorma back is really a desire to have Sub-Mariner stories back, to have stories that mean something. To have an ongoing book full of characters, friends, lovers, villains, and world building that would take the place of that need to dig up old characters because no one is giving us new ones. (Not to mention Marvel having already dug up how many dead Subby characters at this point? Badly, I might add. 3? More?)

I get that Dorma was a major figure during a time when Marvel was establishing Namor as major player in their early days. She's the main supporting character back when Namor was being promoted, advertised and cared about by Marvel. (imagine that?) She's in ads and cartoons, and could be seen wherever Namor was seen. She was a founding Marvel female character, but I don't think that's reason enough to bring her back, and I feel the desire for her return is just a misplaced desire for "The Sub-Mariner" to return. Bringing Dorma back won't solve that issue. All it will do is put that classic character in the hands of an endless string of writers who know or care nothing about her and mangle her as badly as Namor has been for decades now, forever written as an out-of-character guest-star. She's safer in the grave.

I would agree with you in the fact that Dorma was a part of Namor's cast but Namor also had other supporting characters, who, as you've mentioned, have been carved away over the years, Vashti, Nita, Seth, Dara, etc. But we've also kept Namor's villains, Krang, Attuma, mostly, and it's not just a Dorma issue, it's an issue in general with how Marvel treats Namor's world and character. We could have had Namor stories set in Atlantis or around the Atlantean court without Dorma, we can still have that, we've had writers attempt to replace Dorma with other love interests, Marrina, Carrie Underwood, Abira, Emma Frost, etc. but none of them have stuck because the next writer doesn't care about them, or they were killed off, or are part of, like emma, the x-men cast, so they aren't going to stick around in Namor's world. Dorma would because she's part of his world, or if the writers cared enough they could have introduced a new love interest for Namor who is Atlantean as well. I do think Andromeda has potential, she's had a crush on Namor in the past, she's the daughter of Namor's worst enemy, Attuma, and she's loyal and fierce etc. however I do think Andromeda fills the role of loyal warrior/friend better which Namor also needs.

I don't think Dorma should stay dead because in her own right, without romances, she could be a key player in reviving Namor's world because Marvel simply won't let any new character gain traction long enough, Marvel themselves always go back to the classics/older characters, because Comics are a Circle, Namor's story isn't ever going to end, it's going to go in a cycle, just like Spider-Man, the X-Men, Doctor Doom, etc. Their stories reach a peak point then it's either reset or circles back to leave them more or less in a spot where new stories will take place. The X-Men find acceptance then something happens to make humans hate them, or they find a place of refugee and then its destroyed. Doctor Doom reaches almost Anti-Hero status before being thrown back to being a villain, Spider-Man reaches a point where he's happily balancing his hero and normal lives before it comes crumbling down. Like if this were a novel then yeah, it would end at some point, Dorma would have been a chapter in Namor's life, but this isn't a limited series comic where a story is told and finished, this isn't a set amount of time where things happen and it must end. Marvel will keep bringing Peter Parker down to build him up, Doom will always almost reach a place where he isn't a villain, the X-Men will found a new island/school and live happily until it's taken away from them. So it really makes zero sense for Dorma to stay dead just so Namor can have more angst over losing her when writers don't even write that anymore. It's been 50 years of Namor "mourning", there doesn't need to be another 50 years. Even if Dorma does come back and dies again in 10 years, it's just like Jean Grey, who is famous for dying and coming back, because again the medium of comics in which we are dealing with isn't a tv show, it isn't a novel, or a movie where there will always be an end.

I do miss the Silver Age stories a lot, I think it was a great time for Namor, and I do connect Dorma with that a lot, but also as a fan of Dorma herself I'd love to see an Atlantean woman character be set on the same level as Janet Van Dyne, Susan Storm, Jean Grey, etc. all of them first ladies of the avengers, fantastic four, x-men, but for Atlantis. Marvel wouldn't NEED to get Namor/Dorma back together the instant she comes back, they could spent years teasing a reunion, or having them go in different directions, the potential is a lot. Namor's world is very lacking, we've all said it for years, so having Dorma come back wouldn't fix all that needs to be fixed, but it could bring about interesting stories.

Well, if 616 Lady Dorma isn't an option. Then I'd settle for Warrior Queen Dorma returning, instead...

Another missed potential of having a Dorma character back, if she had stayed it would have been very interesting to see Namor struggle with his memories of Dorma and having to interact with her doppelganger.

If Dorma does come back I would want her to be a sorceress/priestess because I feel Atlantis has enough warriors. Andromeda fills the role of red head female atlantean warrior better imo.

[witchboy]

The discussion has given me a different perspective.
Dorma's abscence is felt so keenly because no one has replaced her, Namor's supporting cast has been whittled away and no signifigant new characters have been introduced to replace them.
This makes me think more than ever that Dorma is needed.
I could see where the Exiles Dorma, or a different AU Dorma could fill that void.
I am also reminded that Namora has shown romantic interest in Namor, and it has been established that their relationship is one of formal adoption not blood kin. Her father was adopted as an adult by Namor's grandfather.

[Oberon]

Wrecked gives a decent litany here.

Dorma as well as the rest of the mostly '60s cast were wonderful cast members. Without them Namor flounders from writer to writer as far as that goes. No connective tissue.

He just always seems to be the antagonist in most other folks' story.

[Doombot]

I would agree with you in the fact that Dorma was a part of Namor's cast but Namor also had other supporting characters, who, as you've mentioned, have been carved away over the years, Vashti, Nita, Seth, Dara, etc. But we've also kept Namor's villains, Krang, Attuma, mostly, and it's not just a Dorma issue, it's an issue in general with how Marvel treats Namor's world and character. We could have had Namor stories set in Atlantis or around the Atlantean court without Dorma, we can still have that, we've had writers attempt to replace Dorma with other love interests, Marrina, Carrie Underwood, Abira, Emma Frost, etc. but none of them have stuck because the next writer doesn't care about them, or they were killed off, or are part of, like emma, the x-men cast, so they aren't going to stick around in Namor's world. Dorma would because she's part of his world, or if the writers cared enough they could have introduced a new love interest for Namor who is Atlantean as well. I do think Andromeda has potential, she's had a crush on Namor in the past, she's the daughter of Namor's worst enemy, Attuma, and she's loyal and fierce etc. however I do think Andromeda fills the role of loyal warrior/friend better which Namor also needs.

I don't think Dorma should stay dead because in her own right, without romances, she could be a key player in reviving Namor's world because Marvel simply won't let any new character gain traction long enough, Marvel themselves always go back to the classics/older characters, because Comics are a Circle, Namor's story isn't ever going to end, it's going to go in a cycle, just like Spider-Man, the X-Men, Doctor Doom, etc. Their stories reach a peak point then it's either reset or circles back to leave them more or less in a spot where new stories will take place. The X-Men find acceptance then something happens to make humans hate them, or they find a place of refugee and then its destroyed. Doctor Doom reaches almost Anti-Hero status before being thrown back to being a villain, Spider-Man reaches a point where he's happily balancing his hero and normal lives before it comes crumbling down. Like if this were a novel then yeah, it would end at some point, Dorma would have been a chapter in Namor's life, but this isn't a limited series comic where a story is told and finished, this isn't a set amount of time where things happen and it must end. Marvel will keep bringing Peter Parker down to build him up, Doom will always almost reach a place where he isn't a villain, the X-Men will found a new island/school and live happily until it's taken away from them. So it really makes zero sense for Dorma to stay dead just so Namor can have more angst over losing her when writers don't even write that anymore. It's been 50 years of Namor "mourning", there doesn't need to be another 50 years. Even if Dorma does come back and dies again in 10 years, it's just like Jean Grey, who is famous for dying and coming back, because again the medium of comics in which we are dealing with isn't a tv show, it isn't a novel, or a movie where there will always be an end.

I do miss the Silver Age stories a lot, I think it was a great time for Namor, and I do connect Dorma with that a lot, but also as a fan of Dorma herself I'd love to see an Atlantean woman character be set on the same level as Janet Van Dyne, Susan Storm, Jean Grey, etc. all of them first ladies of the avengers, fantastic four, x-men, but for Atlantis. Marvel wouldn't NEED to get Namor/Dorma back together the instant she comes back, they could spent years teasing a reunion, or having them go in different directions, the potential is a lot. Namor's world is very lacking, we've all said it for years, so having Dorma come back wouldn't fix all that needs to be fixed, but it could bring about interesting stories.

The reason none of the other female characters stuck was because there was no world for them to stick to. Even Marrina, the longest lasting love after Dorma, was really a character from another book. Also, again I've just never liked the argument of "other characters are brought back all the time" as if 1) that was ever a good thing and 2) doing it will solve Namor's issues, it won't. Not that bringing her back has to do that, one could easily just say I want her back because she's a Silver Age icon, and that's just as valid. I wouldn't be upset if she were brought back, but it just isn't needed imo. Her death is one of the few things that still has meaning, and brings character to Namor's, well, character. No, that does not mean he's required to be forever in mourning, it just means that his mourning during those years actually meant something. He grew and developed as a character. Bringing back old dead characters only makes a story's world smaller and more contrived each time they do it, not to mention his pain and maturity during the following years would become meaningless. Every time they retcon character X now being connected to character Y, or character Z back from the dead and was the real villain the entire time! (gasp!) only makes the story world smaller and smaller. Namor needs the opposite. He never had, and doesn't need the "reset" button of a Simpsons episode or how the FF always end up back in their original spots together at the Baxter building, etc. He needs a bigger world, expanded cast, and the few who have managed to survive like Attuma and Tigershark, need to be modernized. Marvel and comics in general need to stop cannibalizing their own characters just for the sake of shock or name recognition. New characters will stick if you give them a book to stick to and time to let the glue dry.