IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2024

[Oberon]

This woman won't leave the guy alone, not even in jail.

It is her book, right?

[Doombot]

I have not read this so I would not judge it.
For me, at the end of the day, comic books are also soap operas for fans like us. And to some degree they write themselves.

I just don't see why Sue and Namor having these moments is so threatening.

I wouldn't say it was threatening, it aggravates some fans, not because of a dislike of Sue (I love Sue) but moreso a dislike of never seeming to let Namor do anything else. He never gets to progress or grow as a character outside his own book (and he never has his own book). Sue is in a book with her team/family every month, Namor barely gets scraps as cameos or guest starring, so seeing him dragged into yet another encounter with Sue, where they're going to imply or more than imply a continued sexual/romantic tension between the two is just downright tiresome. The Marvel universe is a big place, and as much as I love Sue, I'd kinda like almost anyone else to show up and interact with him. Hell, it'd be more interesting to me if Reed showed up at his cell. Those two never get to interact on their own, I can't even remember the last time.

Namor seemingly cannot escape 3 things, all of which are not good for him: Leading Character Limbo, Susan Richards and the Black Panther.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I wouldn't say it was threatening, it aggravates some fans, not because of a dislike of Sue (I love Sue) but moreso a dislike of never seeming to let Namor do anything else. He never gets to progress or grow as a character outside his own book (and he never has his own book). Sue is in a book with her team/family every month, Namor barely gets scraps as cameos or guest starring, so seeing him dragged into yet another encounter with Sue, where they're going to imply or more than imply a continued sexual/romantic tension between the two is just downright tiresome. The Marvel universe is a big place, and as much as I love Sue, I'd kinda like almost anyone else to show up and interact with him. Hell, it'd be more interesting to me if Reed showed up at his cell. Those two never get to interact on their own, I can't even remember the last time.

Namor seemingly cannot escape 3 things, all of which are not good for him: Leading Character Limbo, Susan Richards and the Black Panther.

I agree with all of this, and because Marvel never lets Namor and Susan be platonic friends then the "relationship" which is more of a "one sided obsession" on Namor's part never gets to grow. It's why even tho I haven't read it I'm already waiting for that same old love triangle plot once more. Even Soap Operas have arcs and different stories, this one is just recycled over and over again. North seems to be a good writer so at least I'm willing to wait to see what happens. But yeah if Marvel just banned writers from using Susan/F4, Black Panther, and adding to this, not write Cap being all holier than thou to Namor then maybe we could get some fresh new stories. And for Reed if you aren't counting the Illuminati times then I think the last time they interacted on their own was when Reed made that wetsuit for Namor, other times it was around the F4.

[Oberon]

I wouldn't say it was threatening, it aggravates some fans, not because of a dislike of Sue (I love Sue) but moreso a dislike of never seeming to let Namor do anything else. He never gets to progress or grow as a character outside his own book (and he never has his own book). Sue is in a book with her team/family every month, Namor barely gets scraps as cameos or guest starring, so seeing him dragged into yet another encounter with Sue, where they're going to imply or more than imply a continued sexual/romantic tension between the two is just downright tiresome. The Marvel universe is a big place, and as much as I love Sue, I'd kinda like almost anyone else to show up and interact with him. Hell, it'd be more interesting to me if Reed showed up at his cell. Those two never get to interact on their own, I can't even remember the last time.

Namor seemingly cannot escape 3 things, all of which are not good for him: Leading Character Limbo, Susan Richards and the Black Panther.

Well, if I had to be honest, few characters "truly" (my word) evolve as a person or whatever.

Iron Man will always have his past demons of Alc which have come back. Spider-Man is the poster child for mostly the same old memes or tropes.

So I get you too, it is tiresome especially when you really love a character so much.

I tend to believe in the 'imprint' theory (of my own creation!) that implies certain seminal type experiences 'imprint' their essence or value and that it may be difficult to see / evolve for some.

For humans, the first time we experience a particular movie, in our life, leaves a mark of some sort.
But by the same token, repeated attempts to capture that, fail.

In the '60s, as a kid I loved this one particular flavor (which is never seen btw). Mandarin Chocolate Sherbet. A real orange flavor and chocolate.
But the thing is it never, ever tasted the same as it did that first time.

So, over with Sue and Namor, we'll say that there is some sort of 'imprint' from the initial stories, that just never quite goes away but

no other creator can redo it better, with justice, etc.
PS: The only reason I may find it tiresome, but still am drawn to it, is because I'm rather poly-sexual/sensual

and people having more than one significant love in their life doesn't really bother me.

It actually makes it more interesting.

Sign me, pervy, Oberon

[Oberon]

I agree with all of this, and because Marvel never lets Namor and Susan be platonic friends then the "relationship" which is more of a "one sided obsession" on Namor's part never gets to grow. It's why even tho I haven't read it I'm already waiting for that same old love triangle plot once more. Even Soap Operas have arcs and different stories, this one is just recycled over and over again. North seems to be a good writer so at least I'm willing to wait to see what happens. But yeah if Marvel just banned writers from using Susan/F4, Black Panther, and adding to this, not write Cap being all holier than thou to Namor then maybe we could get some fresh new stories. And for Reed if you aren't counting the Illuminati times then I think the last time they interacted on their own was when Reed made that wetsuit for Namor, other times it was around the F4.

I respect you fine folks for your views but I agree to disagree.

I've always said that Sue and Namor are just more than a surface woman and an underwater guy with romantic tension.

They are, more to me, symbolic of that point of contact between 'us and the other' or the 'other and us'.
Namor is played best (to me, when he is) as a strange visitor from another world

and Sue always seems to be the one person who understands him - yes - that, not just wants to moan about her feelings for him.

I think Sue gets Namor in a way that no one else can, above or below the sea.

So, I don't care if Sue and Namor ever have that real romance, because this way I see their interactions is

much more important to me. Brings a tear to the eye maybe.

Having belabored this thread, I'd just say that you're al right about one thing, no one really knows how to handle Namor creatively. He is just more of a plot device it seems. His agency misused.

[Doombot]

I agree with all of this, and because Marvel never lets Namor and Susan be platonic friends then the "relationship" which is more of a "one sided obsession" on Namor's part never gets to grow. It's why even tho I haven't read it I'm already waiting for that same old love triangle plot once more. Even Soap Operas have arcs and different stories, this one is just recycled over and over again. North seems to be a good writer so at least I'm willing to wait to see what happens. But yeah if Marvel just banned writers from using Susan/F4, Black Panther, and adding to this, not write Cap being all holier than thou to Namor then maybe we could get some fresh new stories. And for Reed if you aren't counting the Illuminati times then I think the last time they interacted on their own was when Reed made that wetsuit for Namor, other times it was around the F4.

See, they almost never directly interact. They do seem to have some slight, begrudging respect for each other, but there's certainly no friendship. If you're going to force Namor to interact with a FF member, I'd like that kind of tension. (Namor is always great with Ben and Johnny simply as fun physical beat-down rivals, who Namor thinks are utter morons.)

[Doombot]

I've always said that Sue and Namor are just more than a surface woman and an underwater guy with romantic tension.

They are, more to me, symbolic of that point of contact between 'us and the other' or the 'other and us'.
Namor is played best (to me, when he is) as a strange visitor from another world

and Sue always seems to be the one person who understands him - yes - that, not just wants to moan about her feelings for him.

I think Sue gets Namor in a way that no one else can, above or below the sea.

So, I don't care if Sue and Namor ever have that real romance, because this way I see their interactions is

much more important to me. Brings a tear to the eye maybe.

Having belabored this thread, I'd just say that you're al right about one thing, no one really knows how to handle Namor creatively. He is just more of a plot device it seems. His agency misused.

This issue I'd have with this idea, is that Namor has had actual, legitimate relationships with other human women, who would certainly know or understand Namor better than Sue does. I actually believe the opposite, I believe Sue doesn't actually know Namor, truly, at all. He's more symbolic to her, a representation of the "other man" or the "bay boy" or just a symbol of a life she might have had if she'd made different choices in her past. When she sees Namor she's really just seeing or exploring aspects of herself, and not actually Namor. Just as, back in the beginning, Namor saw her as powerful and sexual and exciting, but he didn't really see Sue the woman. This seems to be the level they're perpetually stuck in. Some writers try to break them out, but the next guy just kicks them back in.

[K7P5V]

See, they almost never directly interact. They do seem to have some slight, begrudging respect for each other, but there's certainly no friendship. If you're going to force Namor to interact with a FF member, I'd like that kind of tension. (Namor is always great with Ben and Johnny simply as fun physical beat-down rivals, who Namor thinks are utter morons.)

My thoughts exactly. Hell, it's already been proven that they can work together for the greater good...

[Oberon]

I know the Namor fans (me too) feel he is never written well, if not used as a plot contrivance usually.

Buit I think Namor is written to be the contrast to how Sue actually cares for him.
Universally, in the ways I've wrote before. So it is sad that these writers (whoever's book)
want to write that Namor constantly 'mistakes' Sue's affection for a hint of another love.
Yes, it is the writer's fault.
Sue should/would only care for him in this nearly unconditional and universal sense

[Doombot]

What's a character you would dig up and dust off for a Sub-Mariner story arc?

What character would you like to see guest-star or interact with Namor in a Subby story that has never or rarely crossed paths with him?

[K7P5V]

What's a character you would dig up and dust off for a Sub-Mariner story arc?

Without a doubt, my choice would be Victoria Bentley (XD)

What character would you like to see guest-star or interact with Namor in a Subby story that has never or rarely crossed paths with him?

If only to see if there's any connection between Father Neptune & Khonshu, my choice would be Marc Spector: Moon Knight

[Reviresco]

What's a character you would dig up and dust off for a Sub-Mariner story arc?

What character would you like to see guest-star or interact with Namor in a Subby story that has never or rarely crossed paths with him?

Lady Dorma. Always my first and favorite choice. ;p

Namorita. For goodness sakes, FIX the limbo that the second most popular Altantean has languished in. At this point, I'm even fine if it ends up with her dead in the 616, but just give us a definite answer.

Abira the Logmancer, if you want to do a magic arc. Again, establish some characters and concepts.




GUEST STARS are tough ... Namor has interacted with so many. Off the top of my head....


Iron Fists: Orson Randall / Danny Rand

Shang Chi

Captain Britain - Brian Braddock

Sunfire


I'd like to see Namor far away from the US.

[ImperiusWrecked]

What's a character you would dig up and dust off for a Sub-Mariner story arc?

What character would you like to see guest-star or interact with Namor in a Subby story that has never or rarely crossed paths with him?

Aside from Lady Dorma returning then I would want Tareva of Atlantis, she was a one time appearance character in Triumph & Torment who traveled to compete in the magical sorcerer supreme fight, which means she has great magical power, is a canon character that could be fleshed out to be a magical powerhouse and ally to Namor, maybe even be the head of a magical order in Atlantis itself, or court magician since she's said to be one of the most powerful Atlantean sorcerers in Atlantean history. It's an easy way to center plots around Atlantis and more into the magic of the undersea world.

t&t1.jpg
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t&t2.jpg

[Reviresco]

It's interesting how we've all gravitated toward a magic arc. Do folks have a science arc in mind? I actually wonder if an outer space arc would work? Would you use any of Marvel's cosmic characters or races?

[Doombot]

It's interesting how we've all gravitated toward a magic arc. Do folks have a science arc in mind? I actually wonder if an outer space arc would work? Would you use any of Marvel's cosmic characters or races?

Earlier I suggested that it'd be great if the Human Torch allowed Namor and the scientists of Atlantis to examine and perhaps rebuild his synthetic body, teaching Jim himself how to do so as well. I can think of very few places or peoples in the MU that could understand what Horton did in order to help Jim.

As for space, there always the return of the Virago the She-Beast and her people (Zephyrs?) as well as Tamara Rahn and the Banari. Both of those aquatic races have had less than stellar appearances and the potential is there to fix them.

Everyone on Earth seems to have their own spaceships, so why the Atlanteans don't is beyond me. I suppose it's because to human writers, the oceans already seems so otherworldly that it really doesn't naturally lend itself to having Atlanteans in space. It also comes back to Atlantis being in a perpetual state of seeming civilizational schizophrenia, never being able to decide if they're super advanced technological powerhouses or more medieval or even tribal with spears and swords and kelp farming villagers. I would love to see Namor and Atlantis in some water filled spaceship heading to some unknown oceanic moon to investigate, whatever, a new race, a new villain, some scifi comic book mischief.