Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2024

[whitecrown]

Ironically I'm a Gen Z-er yet I prefer how he was portrayed by the likes of Louise Simonson, Scott Lobdell etc. He was a good old fashioned Superhero that's why I like him. Post Apocalypse Possession Cyclops was a product of its time, The America after 9/11 attacks. Everyone had to be edgy and morally ambiguous. I wouldn't call him wrongclops because Wolverine was literally a race traitor and it was Scott who saved the mutants from the brink of extinction. But that Scott died and when he was resurrected by the Phoenix, he realized what doing what is necessary approach had done to him and decided to be a true Superhero again. Ultimately I think Jean makes him a much better person because she's not afraid of standing up to him and putting him in his place.

I'm Gen Z as well although just barely. I also prefer his depiction under those writers you mentioned and liked Scott until after The Twelve and Eve of Destruction. Morrison's run is my cutoff for when the X-Men stop being the X-Men for me. I've only liked a handful of runs and books since then, I think most or all of which do not involve Scott. Ruining Scott would be like butchering Steve Rogers' character just to make him more edgy. I guess Steve was safe since the Ultimate Universe introduced a version of him like that but it's ironic that Ultimate Scott was probably closer to the classic character than actual 616 2000s Scott was. I don't see Wolverine as a race traitor. The hysteria over M-Day always felt contrived to me and Scott's comments like "burn the witch where she stands" did not particularly endear him to me. I think Wolverine was on the right side and that's actually when I became more of a Wolverine fan than a Scott fan. Havok grew more on me as well during this period, particularly the Uncanny Avengers era, since I was so sick of Scott and needed a change. I'm glad he's back on the right path now and thankfully comic book writers tend to be pretty lax about remembering continuity more than a few years old so there's been enough time to mostly forget about the dreary Dark Ages which myself and some other fans refer to as the 2000s-2010s.

[Darth_Caedus]

I'm Gen Z as well although just barely. I also prefer his depiction under those writers you mentioned and liked Scott until after The Twelve and Eve of Destruction. Morrison's run is my cutoff for when the X-Men stop being the X-Men for me. I've only liked a handful of runs and books since then, I think most or all of which do not involve Scott. Ruining Scott would be like butchering Steve Rogers' character just to make him more edgy. I guess Steve was safe since the Ultimate Universe introduced a version of him like that but it's ironic that Ultimate Scott was probably closer to the classic character than actual 616 2000s Scott was. I don't see Wolverine as a race traitor. The hysteria over M-Day always felt contrived to me and Scott's comments like "burn the witch where she stands" did not particularly endear him to me. I think Wolverine was on the right side and that's actually when I became more of a Wolverine fan than a Scott fan. Havok grew more on me as well during this period, particularly the Uncanny Avengers era, since I was so sick of Scott and needed a change. I'm glad he's back on the right path now and thankfully comic book writers tend to be pretty lax about remembering continuity more than a few years old so there's been enough time to mostly forget about the dreary Dark Ages which myself and some other fans refer to as the 2000s-2010s.

Morrison's a great writer but they ultimately broke the line with NXM. It was too gloomy, too hopless and depressing to be X-Men and some of the things that came after it were even worse. Scott calling Jean a terrible wife in Endsong? That was so wrong and painful, probably something Joe Quesada had come up with since we all know of his absurd hatred towards Superhero marriages and Redheads. Right now Scott is not the militant guy he used to be in 2000s-2010s anymore and he values Jean and their children above all else so you could give him a chance again

Lol you're right about Ultimate Cyke acting morr like the classic Cyke, I think that's why he was so relatable to me.

[whitecrown]

Morrison's a great writer but they ultimately broke the line with NXM. It was too gloomy, too hopless and depressing to be X-Men and some of the things that came after it were even worse. Scott calling Jean a terrible wife in Endsong? That was so wrong and painful, probably something Joe Quesada had come up with since we all know of his absurd hatred towards Superhero marriages and Redheads. Right now Scott is not the militant guy he used to be in 2000s-2010s anymore and he values Jean and their children above all else so you could give him a chance again

Lol you're right about Ultimate Cyke acting morr like the classic Cyke, I think that's why he was so relatable to me.

Morrison did not understand X-Men. Maybe his run would have worked for any other franchise or as something completely original but he took pre-existing characters and forced them to fit molds they weren't meant for. Like his original idea about having Cyclops and Storm have an affair. Or killing off Rogue to bring her back more in line with her X-Men Evolution counterpart. I don't get the love people have for his work after he trashed Scott's character, killed off Jean for 14 years, turned Beast into a cat abomination, made Magneto into a genocidal monster, elevated a fake blonde to the X-Men's only female character for about a decade (who herself was just an amalgam of previous characters like British Betsy and Maddie), and introduced wacky and unnecessary concepts like the black leather uniforms, secondary mutations, mutant culture, Sublime, etc. There was such an influx of new characters by making the school open to an entire student body populace, which I found ironic since the Genosha massacre was mandated to limit the number of mutants. I think I could forgive most of that if not for the damage to Scott and Jean and how long that lasted. The portrayal of their marriage in Endsong was ghastly but Morrison set the standard with his tone-deaf remarks that Jean was not acting like a wife anymore. Joe Q is a deeply troubled man and I'm so glad he's not in charge anymore between the damage he did to Jott and Peter/MJ.

I do have a better opinion of Scott now than I used to thankfully. Like I said, enough time has passed now to "heal" most of the trauma lol.

In fact, out of the Ultimate Universe portrayals, I think Scott was probably the closest to his original character compared to the rest of the X-Men. Some like Beast and Storm were so radically different.

[Darth_Caedus]

X-Men_Vol_6_34.jpg
The OTP

[Havok83]

The ponytail thing is a little grating too. It seems like now Jean can only wear her hair in a ponytail (although Maddie is allowed to wear her hair up on Genosha). In fact, what clued me in on the fact that Scott was psychically talking to Maddie and not Jean was the fact that her hair was down since by this point, the show had already established that hair down means Maddie and hair in a ponytail is Jean, NO EXCEPTIONS. This seems to ignore the fact that in the original show, Jean only had her hair in a ponytail while in X-Men uniform. She always had her hair down in her civilian looks but that doesn't seem allowed anymore.

I'm hoping for the Phoenix transformation because I think that will help salvage the character since nothing's being done for her right now besides being overshadowed by Maddie. I hope the blue power effects go away too because I was never a fan of that and pink is her color.

When jean entered Scott's mind (when she caught him with Maddie), her hair was down. The show hasnt really established rules. I think thats something we fans expected them to do but really they keep flip flopping with their hair.

[whitecrown]

When jean entered Scott's mind (when she caught him with Maddie), her hair was down. The show hasnt really established rules. I think thats something we fans expected them to do but really they keep flip flopping with their hair.

I need to rewatch that then. I thought her hair was in a ponytail but maybe I'm getting it mixed up with the scene where she kisses Logan.

Seeing Storm with her new costume change and Rogue in that gorgeous red gown makes me hope we get some scenes were Jean gets to dress up as well. I'd love to see her iconic black gown...although something tells me Maddie would probably get to wear it instead.

[Darth_Caedus]

When jean entered Scott's mind (when she caught him with Maddie), her hair was down. The show hasnt really established rules. I think thats something we fans expected them to do but really they keep flip flopping with their hair.

Wasn't Jean shown with both hairstyles in one the promos for future episodes?

[whitecrown]

X-Men_Vol_6_34.jpg
The OTP

I'm glad they actually appear on covers together again. I remember in the 2000s, the trend was that Jean and Logan got covers together (usually kissing) but never any with Scott and Jean, excluding the Ultimate Universe. And interestingly enough, Alan Davis confirmed that was an editorial decision since the late 90s when he was told to draw a cover of Jean and Logan kissing even though it had nothing to do with the plot of the issue he was working on. When he asked why, he was told that sales went up when Logan and Jean kissed. Which explains the influx of Logan/Jean covers during the dark ages but pretty much none with Scott and Jean.

[Darth_Caedus]

I'm glad they actually appear on covers together again. I remember in the 2000s, the trend was that Jean and Logan got covers together (usually kissing) but never any with Scott and Jean, excluding the Ultimate Universe. And interestingly enough, Alan Davis confirmed that was an editorial decision since the late 90s when he was told to draw a cover of Jean and Logan kissing even though it had nothing to do with the plot of the issue he was working on. When he asked why, he was told that sales went up when Logan and Jean kissed. Which explains the influx of Logan/Jean covers during the dark ages but pretty much none with Scott and Jean.

We've been getting a lot of covers featuring Scott and Jean as a happy couple in the past few years.
IMG_20240421_064633_564.jpg
This one is my favorite, Cyke and Jean fighting against eldritch horrors to save their son.

[whitecrown]

We've been getting a lot of covers featuring Scott and Jean as a happy couple in the past few years.
IMG_20240421_064633_564.jpg
This one is my favorite, Cyke and Jean fighting against eldritch horrors to save their son.

I hadn't seen that one. But yeah, I noticed this trend that for several years now, they've been appearing on covers together again. I think a lot of this was because of Joe Q's policies because it's not a coincidence that Teen Jean (and later the real Jean) only came back after Joe Q was no longer in charge. The dark age indeed.

[Darth_Caedus]

I hadn't seen that one. But yeah, I noticed this trend that for several years now, they've been appearing on covers together again. I think a lot of this was because of Joe Q's policies because it's not a coincidence that Teen Jean (and later the real Jean) only came back after Joe Q was no longer in charge. The dark age indeed.

Joe Quesada is probably the worst thing that ever happened to Marvel comics in general. He butchered two of Marvel's most popular couples and was on his way to ruin Reed and Sue's marriage too lol and his misogyny was too ridiculous, fridging Jean and trashing her character for years

[whitecrown]

Joe Quesada is probably the worst thing that ever happened to Marvel comics in general. He butchered two of Marvel's most popular couples and was on his way to ruin Reed and Sue's marriage too lol and his misogyny was too ridiculous, fridging Jean and trashing her character for years

If the Inhumans had been more relevant back then, I'm sure Black Bolt and Medusa's marriage would have ended for good since they're another brunette man and redhead woman combo. The funny thing is that I don't even think his art is very good so I have no idea how he got to the position he had. As for Reed and Sue, I think the only reason they didn't end up broken completely was because as Marvel's First Family, they're sorta a protected class and that was the only thing that saved them. Otherwise, they would have gotten the same fate.

[Darth_Caedus]

If the Inhumans had been more relevant back then, I'm sure Black Bolt and Medusa's marriage would have ended for good since they're another brunette man and redhead woman combo. The funny thing is that I don't even think his art is very good so I have no idea how he got to the position he had. As for Reed and Sue, I think the only reason they didn't end up broken completely was because as Marvel's First Family, they're sorta a protected class and that was the only thing that saved them. Otherwise, they would have gotten the same fate.

At least Phoenix Resurrection, Rosenberg's UXM and Krakoan era fixed Scott and Jean's marriage. Seriously I haven't seen them this close and happy together since the 90s. But poor Peter has to endure the wrath of Paul lmao

[whitecrown]

At least Phoenix Resurrection, Rosenberg's UXM and Krakoan era fixed Scott and Jean's marriage. Seriously I haven't seen them this close and happy together since the 90s. But poor Peter has to endure the wrath of Paul lmao

This is why that period since the 90s I ignore. Especially since Jean was dead for the bulk of it so there's no saving grace. Outside of Remender's UXF and UA, I found nothing of value during this period when every story hinged on the same tired mutantkind on the brink of extinction over and over. Although Krakoa might take the cake for ultimate character assassination.

Yes, poor Peter. Despite all the goodwill towards Renew Your Vows, his marriage still hasn't been restored.

[Havok83]

At least Phoenix Resurrection, Rosenberg's UXM and Krakoan era fixed Scott and Jean's marriage. Seriously I haven't seen them this close and happy together since the 90s. But poor Peter has to endure the wrath of Paul lmao

Yea, Ive been loving them. I fear for what Marvel will do in a few months though but I hope they dont break up