Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2024

[Mercury]

I hate to be a pessimist but I've had bad feeling since the Brevoort announcement. Best case her and Scott get benched for awhile. Worst case dead again.

I have a feeling she may take a vacation in the WHR to help repair it and the PF OR she and Scott may go into a semi-retirement

Aw. Ya’ll have been traumatized by the usual aftermath of Jean’s periods as Phoenix, which I totally understand. 🥹 However, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[MechaJeanix]

While we can only guess at this point, I am hopeful that Scott and Jean will not be sidelined in the upcoming era. Both characters have been somewhat sidelined for months now (Scott being captured and Jean being elsewhere). I definitely expect to see them in full action soon in the end of the Krakoa era and I hope to see them continue to get highlighted. But we all know the X-men, sometimes characters are given extended breaks. With Jean being dead for so long I think it would be a bad decision to sideline her now.

Hopefully we will get some official news in the next little bit so we will know more about the new era- the creative teams, book titles, etc.

In the meantime I am eager for X-men Forever and for the two episode debut of X-men 97.

[PyroFN]

Aw. Ya’ll have been traumatized by the usual aftermath of Jean’s periods as Phoenix, which I totally understand. �� However, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Agreed. The pessimism is not unearned. We just need to be the balance of optimism and reassurance. And I have full confidence that the mindset of Jean today is not what it was back then.

[Phoenixx9]

Agreed. The pessimism is not unearned. We just need to be the balance of optimism and reassurance. And I have full confidence that the mindset of Jean today is not what it was back then.

Well, Jean's mindset is certainly not the same as back then.

But more importantly, the writers' minds of Jean are what need to be different from back then. And I think it might just be for the better.

Jean was not seen as a "Major Character" until she ascended into The Phoenix. Then Jean became a vehicle for high power-but-along-comes-decades-of-death. Jean is now shon as powerful, human, and an important leader and Marvel Character.

Jean has a strong fan-base who not only loves her but stands behind her (in the words of Wolverine) "All the way!" I know I do!

[PyroFN]

Jean was not seen as a "Major Character" until she ascended into The Phoenix. Then Jean became a vehicle for high power-but-along-comes-decades-of-death. Jean is now shon as powerful, human, and an important leader and Marvel Character.

Mostly agreed with everything except for this quoted bit. I think the issue was more to do with how Krakoa Era writing functioned.

It’s clear that not everyone jives with different writers for different reasons, which is not a bad thing or wrong to feel in any way. I think Jean more or less just jumped around with writers like most characters in the Krakoan Era.

Like, Hickman states Jean is a prominent character and that was both true and untrue. She was reaffirmed as an Omega (though she lost Omega status in TK. We will see if Brevoort brings that back), which in the context of Krakoa meant she was important lore-wise for how rare Omega’s are in the greater population of mutantkind. This on top of her temporary positions in X-Force and the Quiet Council demonstrated an attempt to do something new with Jean. But Hickman simply didn’t know how to write powerful characters and loved writing the neutrally complex sort of femme fatales, which is not terrible, but it did make his voice for Jean rather lacking in personality and purpose. I think it’s pretty unitedly agreed his Jean is lackluster. Serviceable or inoffensive in some respects, but frustratingly boring and underpowered.

Percy did more with Jean in the very short time he used her….but like I said, it was a short time and there were some glaring spots in how he used her (I will not go easy on him fridging her in Wolverine 1 and 2.)

Duggan did the most with her by virtue of Jean having more free-time without Council duties or X-Force duties, which meant she can lead her own X-Team (Storm could never have such issues. She apparently will pile on duties from both governments on entirely different planets and have a sub-plot about the difficulties of dividing her attention. Yes, I’m a little salty about that too. Not Storm’s fault and I hope Storm fans don’t try to murder me for the sarcastic jest). His is mixed reaction among the fandom, which, again, has to do with issues with the way he writes (at least from what I gather based on opinions I’ve seen). We can at least say he had the most passion for Jean behind Simonson, since he used her by far the most of any writers and improving the most in Jean’s voice and leaned in a bit on Jean’s reputation as a well-known hero that sort of started with Tom Taylor having Jean calling in the Avengers.

Gillen is the one other major writer for Jean before her death. The most appraised for when he actually writes her, though this current plot is not doing favors on views on him. Though to be fair, this is not exactly writing Jean Grey. This is writing someone who is broken and not quite aware of anything. Not a popular choice, but still has time to be salvaged.

Louise Simonson did the best writing, though she was not able to write anything that factored into the actual plot beyond rebinding Phoenix. A mixed reaction from what I can tell, though we at least unanimously agree it’s not entirely on Simonson and is possibly more because of the overall plot-line had not included Jean to begin with. I would surmise Simonson did what she had to work with.

Everyone else sort of plays hot-potato with Jean in minor appearances, like Steve Fox and Jed MacKay.

I don’t think everyone has had quite a unified hold on Jean beyond Duggan in the Krakoan Era. It sort of works in favor of Jean because there is interest (writers are the one who chooses the characters and they ask permission if it’s not their character), but it also sort of muddles the voice of Jean when she is not being utilized properly by writers like Hickman. That’s at least what I’ve observed.

[PotniaTheron]

Mostly agreed with everything except for this quoted bit. I think the issue was more to do with how Krakoa Era writing functioned.

It’s clear that not everyone jives with different writers for different reasons, which is not a bad thing or wrong to feel in any way. I think Jean more or less just jumped around with writers like most characters in the Krakoan Era.

Like, Hickman states Jean is a prominent character and that was both true and untrue. She was reaffirmed as an Omega (though she lost Omega status in TK. We will see if Brevoort brings that back), which in the context of Krakoa meant she was important lore-wise for how rare Omega’s are in the greater population of mutantkind. This on top of her temporary positions in X-Force and the Quiet Council demonstrated an attempt to do something new with Jean. But Hickman simply didn’t know how to write powerful characters and loved writing the neutrally complex sort of femme fatales, which is not terrible, but it did make his voice for Jean rather lacking in personality and purpose. I think it’s pretty unitedly agreed his Jean is lackluster. Serviceable or inoffensive in some respects, but frustratingly boring and underpowered.

Percy did more with Jean in the very short time he used her….but like I said, it was a short time and there were some glaring spots in how he used her (I will not go easy on him fridging her in Wolverine 1 and 2.)

Duggan did the most with her by virtue of Jean having more free-time without Council duties or X-Force duties, which meant she can lead her own X-Team (Storm could never have such issues. She apparently will pile on duties from both governments on entirely different planets and have a sub-plot about the difficulties of dividing her attention. Yes, I’m a little salty about that too. Not Storm’s fault and I hope Storm fans don’t try to murder me for the sarcastic jest). His is mixed reaction among the fandom, which, again, has to do with issues with the way he writes (at least from what I gather based on opinions I’ve seen). We can at least say he had the most passion for Jean behind Simonson, since he used her by far the most of any writers and improving the most in Jean’s voice and leaned in a bit on Jean’s reputation as a well-known hero that sort of started with Tom Taylor having Jean calling in the Avengers.

Gillen is the one other major writer for Jean before her death. The most appraised for when he actually writes her, though this current plot is not doing favors on views on him. Though to be fair, this is not exactly writing Jean Grey. This is writing someone who is broken and not quite aware of anything. Not a popular choice, but still has time to be salvaged.

Louise Simonson did the best writing, though she was not able to write anything that factored into the actual plot beyond rebinding Phoenix. A mixed reaction from what I can tell, though we at least unanimously agree it’s not entirely on Simonson and is possibly more because of the overall plot-line had not included Jean to begin with. I would surmise Simonson did what she had to work with.

Everyone else sort of plays hot-potato with Jean in minor appearances, like Steve Fox and Jed MacKay.

I don’t think everyone has had quite a unified hold on Jean beyond Duggan in the Krakoan Era. It sort of works in favor of Jean because there is interest (writers are the one who chooses the characters and they ask permission if it’s not their character), but it also sort of muddles the voice of Jean when she is not being utilized properly by writers like Hickman. That’s at least what I’ve observed.

Jean had to quit the Council in order to lead the X-Men, presumably because Hickman had originally planned to write Krakoa split, with Scott and Jean's X-Men opposing the Council. But apparently with Hickman's departure, that plan was scrapped

[Exodus]

Aw. Ya’ll have been traumatized by the usual aftermath of Jean’s periods as Phoenix, which I totally understand. 🥹 However, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

spill the spoiler tea if you know anything! tired of waiting another 3 months to find out....Jean will probably lead another X-team in late 2025. lol

[Portsian]

I’d like Uncanny to come back as main title with Jean in it, hopefully as leader!

[Havok83]

I’d like Uncanny to come back as main title with Jean in it, hopefully as leader!

Thats probably not gonna happen. We got our first glimpse of the post-Krakoa era in the Women of Marvel oneshot and it appears that spoilers:

two X-men teams will come into play led by Rogue and Kitty

end of spoilers

[Phoenixx9]

Mostly agreed with everything except for this quoted bit. I think the issue was more to do with how Krakoa Era writing functioned.

It’s clear that not everyone jives with different writers for different reasons, which is not a bad thing or wrong to feel in any way. I think Jean more or less just jumped around with writers like most characters in the Krakoan Era.

Like, Hickman states Jean is a prominent character and that was both true and untrue. She was reaffirmed as an Omega (though she lost Omega status in TK. We will see if Brevoort brings that back), which in the context of Krakoa meant she was important lore-wise for how rare Omega’s are in the greater population of mutantkind. This on top of her temporary positions in X-Force and the Quiet Council demonstrated an attempt to do something new with Jean. But Hickman simply didn’t know how to write powerful characters and loved writing the neutrally complex sort of femme fatales, which is not terrible, but it did make his voice for Jean rather lacking in personality and purpose. I think it’s pretty unitedly agreed his Jean is lackluster. Serviceable or inoffensive in some respects, but frustratingly boring and underpowered.

Percy did more with Jean in the very short time he used her….but like I said, it was a short time and there were some glaring spots in how he used her (I will not go easy on him fridging her in Wolverine 1 and 2.)

Duggan did the most with her by virtue of Jean having more free-time without Council duties or X-Force duties, which meant she can lead her own X-Team (Storm could never have such issues. She apparently will pile on duties from both governments on entirely different planets and have a sub-plot about the difficulties of dividing her attention. Yes, I’m a little salty about that too. Not Storm’s fault and I hope Storm fans don’t try to murder me for the sarcastic jest). His is mixed reaction among the fandom, which, again, has to do with issues with the way he writes (at least from what I gather based on opinions I’ve seen). We can at least say he had the most passion for Jean behind Simonson, since he used her by far the most of any writers and improving the most in Jean’s voice and leaned in a bit on Jean’s reputation as a well-known hero that sort of started with Tom Taylor having Jean calling in the Avengers.

Gillen is the one other major writer for Jean before her death. The most appraised for when he actually writes her, though this current plot is not doing favors on views on him. Though to be fair, this is not exactly writing Jean Grey. This is writing someone who is broken and not quite aware of anything. Not a popular choice, but still has time to be salvaged.

Louise Simonson did the best writing, though she was not able to write anything that factored into the actual plot beyond rebinding Phoenix. A mixed reaction from what I can tell, though we at least unanimously agree it’s not entirely on Simonson and is possibly more because of the overall plot-line had not included Jean to begin with. I would surmise Simonson did what she had to work with.

Everyone else sort of plays hot-potato with Jean in minor appearances, like Steve Fox and Jed MacKay.

I don’t think everyone has had quite a unified hold on Jean beyond Duggan in the Krakoan Era. It sort of works in favor of Jean because there is interest (writers are the one who chooses the characters and they ask permission if it’s not their character), but it also sort of muddles the voice of Jean when she is not being utilized properly by writers like Hickman. That’s at least what I’ve observed.

Glad you agreed with most of my post and you <might>agree with it all after my explanation below, lol.

I wasn't particularly thinking about Jean being an Omega-Level Mutant with Both her dual Psionic Powers. But even that does not necessarily make her a Major Marvel Character if she is not shown in advertising, always in the background of ads or cartoons, the majority of the populace not knowing who she is, etc.

The Phoenix Saga lead to the Dark Phoenix Saga which was Jean at High Power and Death. Even after returning, how many times did she die from 1985 through 2023? I have lost count! Jean has had high-level powers ever since her first return in X-Factor (1985), but Death always follows her. At the moment, she is currently dead. But Hopefully, soon to rise and return to us, her loyal fans!

I was not talking about any of the current writers, such as Percy, Duggan or Gillen as you mention. I think they all get Jean at some level (although not totally). I was talking more about the first 37 years of Jean's characterization at Marvel (1963-2000).

I think these days, Jean is a Major Marvel character for sure!

[Celestialbodies]

Every time I see an artist put the Dark Phoenix emblem in the black triangle, I'm curious if they incorrectly think that's how it's supposed to look or they do it on purpose so it can be easily color swapped to the green outfit. For official art, I don't understand why it keeps happening. It's such a relatively easy thing for an editor to ask them to fix, especially since so many artists draw digitally these days.

Being fair it's expected at this point.


It is fascinating however, the Phoenix costume everyone thinks of is actually the Red one by design, the emblem on the Green started relatively small at first, which made her eventual transformation and metaphorical shattering of her restrains (the black triangle) into DP all the more heartbreaking and a brilliant literarcy touch by Claremont.

Odd how things evolve I feel like we get the white, green, and red as color swaps more often then not, especially on official things.

Mostly agreed with everything except for this quoted bit. I think the issue was more to do with how Krakoa Era writing functioned.

It’s clear that not everyone jives with different writers for different reasons, which is not a bad thing or wrong to feel in any way. I think Jean more or less just jumped around with writers like most characters in the Krakoan Era.

Like, Hickman states Jean is a prominent character and that was both true and untrue. She was reaffirmed as an Omega (though she lost Omega status in TK. We will see if Brevoort brings that back), which in the context of Krakoa meant she was important lore-wise for how rare Omega’s are in the greater population of mutantkind. This on top of her temporary positions in X-Force and the Quiet Council demonstrated an attempt to do something new with Jean. But Hickman simply didn’t know how to write powerful characters and loved writing the neutrally complex sort of femme fatales, which is not terrible, but it did make his voice for Jean rather lacking in personality and purpose. I think it’s pretty unitedly agreed his Jean is lackluster. Serviceable or inoffensive in some respects, but frustratingly boring and underpowered.

Percy did more with Jean in the very short time he used her….but like I said, it was a short time and there were some glaring spots in how he used her (I will not go easy on him fridging her in Wolverine 1 and 2.)

Duggan did the most with her by virtue of Jean having more free-time without Council duties or X-Force duties, which meant she can lead her own X-Team (Storm could never have such issues. She apparently will pile on duties from both governments on entirely different planets and have a sub-plot about the difficulties of dividing her attention. Yes, I’m a little salty about that too. Not Storm’s fault and I hope Storm fans don’t try to murder me for the sarcastic jest). His is mixed reaction among the fandom, which, again, has to do with issues with the way he writes (at least from what I gather based on opinions I’ve seen). We can at least say he had the most passion for Jean behind Simonson, since he used her by far the most of any writers and improving the most in Jean’s voice and leaned in a bit on Jean’s reputation as a well-known hero that sort of started with Tom Taylor having Jean calling in the Avengers.

Gillen is the one other major writer for Jean before her death. The most appraised for when he actually writes her, though this current plot is not doing favors on views on him. Though to be fair, this is not exactly writing Jean Grey. This is writing someone who is broken and not quite aware of anything. Not a popular choice, but still has time to be salvaged.

Louise Simonson did the best writing, though she was not able to write anything that factored into the actual plot beyond rebinding Phoenix. A mixed reaction from what I can tell, though we at least unanimously agree it’s not entirely on Simonson and is possibly more because of the overall plot-line had not included Jean to begin with. I would surmise Simonson did what she had to work with.

Everyone else sort of plays hot-potato with Jean in minor appearances, like Steve Fox and Jed MacKay.

I don’t think everyone has had quite a unified hold on Jean beyond Duggan in the Krakoan Era. It sort of works in favor of Jean because there is interest (writers are the one who chooses the characters and they ask permission if it’s not their character), but it also sort of muddles the voice of Jean when she is not being utilized properly by writers like Hickman. That’s at least what I’ve observed.

Very nicely put!

[Celestialbodies]

I have taken a break, i jumped off right before fall though judgment was when i started to pull back. Still don't know who thought mutants being deviants was a good idea. This has not been the best era for Jean imho. Also i just don't see the phoenix thing ending too well. with marvel making the unlimited version of the final host, meaning they took time to adapt it to fit the digital format i just don't see where being phoenix will take jean or how she will move forward with that moniker but beyond that it shouldn't take this long for her to do something. she died months ago, they will prob say the mini is what she went through while in her drooling state but she is still there. No real lines, no real action, she is literally a puppet on a rope and has been for quite some time. Granted i haven't been reading recently, at least nothing she appears in but from what i've read on the boards and have seen in other books it's just not a good look.

Also one issue is not a fujll meal for me. I am convinced Jean will have a one issue moment, the new writers come, and then what? months for a new status quo to come in. Last time this happened or looked like it was suppose to she lost her powers. Well last time she died for years despite apparent rebirth but in i think kelly run maybe lobdell when she was in anchorage she lost her powers.

Fair assessment of what we've seen of Jean so far this era.

[Mercury]

I enjoyed Weapon X-Men quite a bit:

[The Thunderbird]

Aw. Ya’ll have been traumatized by the usual aftermath of Jean’s periods as Phoenix, which I totally understand. �� However, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'm hoping you know things that I don't know and that good things for Jean will come both at the end of Krakoa and in From the Ashes.

I enjoyed Weapon X-Men quite a bit:

Jean looks great here.

[ermac]

That's an interesting roster for Uncanny Avengers