Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2024

[SugarMan]

Yeah, Jean is definitely going to be back, and maintain her connection to Phoenix. I don’t know how many times they have to imply it before people begin to understand that. It’s a story playing out over time, but I don’t get what people are worried about. She’ll obviously be back, and stronger.

[Grinning Soul]

Yeah, Jean is definitely going to be back, and maintain her connection to Phoenix. I don’t know how many times they have to imply it before people begin to understand that. It’s a story playing out over time, but I don’t get what people are worried about. She’ll obviously be back, and stronger.

It can't be news for you that fans remember their favorite character was kept out of the books for 20+ years.

Take that into consideration and I suppose you'll be able to understand why.

Another clue: Marvel lies to their fans repeatedly.

Now, no one is saying that anything terrible will *certainly* happen to Jean. But it's a bit much to imply that (some of) her fans are being crazy for being afraid.

[Mercury]

Gillen’s reticence to explicitly define Jean and Phoenix’s shared identity is understandable, especially since they will likely be pivotal in his story. The voodoo doll analogy is apropos, too, considering that a voodoo doll is a miniaturized representation of a life. I find it telling that he makes it clear he isn't denying that Jean and Phoenix are one and the same, leaving room for either that to be the case or for it to be revealed that the Phoenix Force is in some way responsible for Jean’s creation.

[Omega_DCD]

Gillen’s reticence to explicitly define Jean and Phoenix’s shared identity is understandable, especially since they will likely be pivotal in his story. The voodoo doll analogy is apropos, too, considering that a voodoo doll is a miniaturized representation of a life. I find it telling that he makes it clear he isn't denying that Jean and Phoenix are one and the same, leaving room for either that to be the case or for it to be revealed that the Phoenix Force is in some way responsible for Jean’s creation.

When I read that I was underwhelmed...I get giving non-committal answers to stories still in the process of being revealed...but if things end up in that direction, I'll be disappointed. We've had decades of interpretations...if the Phoenix lore is being brought back "home" (both back to the X-Men, and back to Jean), I'd prefer it lead to something definitive...add clarity, not obfuscation...leave the "interpreting" to Exodus and his "books", but I hope we the readers get something more substantial from our POV.

[Wiccan]

Unfortunately I think it's asking too much to expect a more defined connection between Jean and the Phoenix than we have now. I don't think most writers want to get deep into that, because it can be hard to make it work with everything that has come before. The Phoenix has had like a thousand retcons and a bunch of contradictory stuff added to its mythology. And there's surely a bunch of stuff that has gone forgotten as well. I think that unless the story was specifically about that, they're not gonna establish anything new or very concrete about Jean and the Phoenix. And even if they did want to do that it would depend if editors would even allow it.

I think we're at least on a better state than before, cause Aaron is finally done and the Phoenix is out of the Avengers office's hands. The idea that when Jean is in the White Hot Room what happens to her affects the whole place/the Phoenix itself is already more than we would've gotten before. The last time we had a Jean/White Hot Room story before this it was with the Phoenix killing Jeen and trapping her there with her needing to fight all the other hosts to get out.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

LOL I thought Gillen was really gonna say something for a while there. Oh well. Typical.

I vote Maggot for next Super Important White Phoenix of the Crown Host. Since Marvel is sooooo intent on it not being a Jean-specific thing.

Don't be surprised if they bring in fainting spells to match up with the new/old cartoon. Yuck.

[Omega_DCD]

Unfortunately I think it's asking too much to expect a more defined connection between Jean and the Phoenix than we have now. I don't think most writers want to get deep into that, because it can be hard to make it work with everything that has come before. The Phoenix has had like a thousand retcons and a bunch of contradictory stuff added to its mythology. And there's surely a bunch of stuff that has gone forgotten as well. I think that unless the story was specifically about that, they're not gonna establish anything new or very concrete about Jean and the Phoenix. And even if they did want to do that it would depend if editors would even allow it.

I think we're at least on a better state than before, cause Aaron is finally done and the Phoenix is out of the Avengers office's hands. The idea that when Jean is in the White Hot Room what happens to her affects the whole place/the Phoenix itself is already more than we would've gotten before. The last time we had a Jean/White Hot Room story before this it was with the Phoenix killing Jeen and trapping her there with her needing to fight all the other hosts to get out.

I agree with you on the likelihood...but they've proven they can rein things in when they want to, for example, the truncated and very well defined(in some cases, re-defined) Omega Mutant list at the start of this era.

They've proven they can expand (Cerebro went from "Find My Mutant" to the backbone of mutant Resurrection), and make HUGE retcons out of no where (Moira).

I just want it to be satisfying wherever it goes...this era has been full of definitions (the ever present Data Pages)...so if Jean/Phoenix/WHR just full on mysticism (as opposed to simply inspiration or a framing device for certain concepts), I personally will be disappointed

[Mercury]

When I read that I was underwhelmed...I get giving non-committal answers to stories still in the process of being revealed...but if things end up in that direction, I'll be disappointed. We've had decades of interpretations...if the Phoenix lore is being brought back "home" (both back to the X-Men, and back to Jean), I'd prefer it lead to something definitive...add clarity, not obfuscation...leave the "interpreting" to Exodus and his "books", but I hope we the readers get something more substantial from our POV.

At this juncture, less than halfway through his story, it's not like he could say, “Yes, Jean, Phoenix, and the White Hot Room are one and the same,” without spoiling something. He was also responding to a question pertaining to what of his writing—not Claremont’s or Simonson’s or Pak’s—has been published thus far and has made clear. And he’s right. He's only made it clear that they have an unbreakable connection and guide each other in a circle without beginning or end. That said, he also made it clear he wasn't saying that Jean, Phoenix, and the White Hot Room being one “isn't true either.” Ultimately, his voodoo doll analogy does highlight that he sees Jean and Phoenix’s connection as singular.

On another note, I quite like this fan’s explanation.

[Devaishwarya]

They may both be literary devices but there is a vast difference between a metaphor and an analogy.

[Omega_DCD]

At this juncture, less than halfway through his story, it's not like he could say, “Yes, Jean, Phoenix, and the White Hot Room are one and the same,” without spoiling something.

Yes, I do believe I started off by saying exactly that.

There exists a spectrum of satisfaction derived from stories and I'm simply stating that a less-defined connection is less satisfying to me than a more defined connection...particularly in an era that has been so pro-data...or simply put, on the other side of this story I want to feel like I know more about Jean's connection to the Phoenix than before...and not less or be confused. That's it , that's all.

[Exodus]

In universe, it must be such a weird life to live to be Jean's closest social network. Just imagine your friend would constantly get killed and return to life at one point (you don't exactly know when, but the chances are really high that she will get better and come back to life). How to respond to that emotionally? Grief or just a little patience?

...

I think the current arc gave us so many new aspects of Jean's relationship to the White Hot Room and the Phoenix Force. I really do not need more at this point. I really enjoy this openness. In the end, my interpretation stays the same: Jean is capable to transcend into absolute godhood but she actively rejects this possibility in order to stay human and live a human life because she knows the consequence of turning into an abstract cosmic force of life and destruction. I do not need more. I just wished they would let her use her classic iconic iconography of the Phoenix Force. Claremont's Revolution arc did it in such a gorgeous fashion.

at one point, we should get an interview between Claremont, Morrison, and Gillen debating together the Holy Trinity of Jean, the Phoenix Force, and the White Hot Room.

[Grinning Soul]

In universe, it must be such a weird life to live to be Jean's closest social network. Just imagine your friend would constantly get killed and return to life at one point (you don't exactly know when, but the chances are really high that she will get better and come back to life). How to respond to that emotionally? Grief or just a little patience?

Both, I guess. And a good dose of anxiety mixed in.

[Exodus]

Both, I guess. And a good dose of anxiety mixed in.

I think I would also be quite irritated or even mad at one point. I mean seriously, Jean is probably the most powerful Marvel hero in existence and she still manages to get herself killed constantly. Like, "honey, could you take care of yourself a little bit better please? Psy shield up!"

[Grinning Soul]

I think I would also be quite irritated or even mad at one point. I mean seriously, Jean is probably the most powerful Marvel hero in existence and she still manages to get herself killed constantly. Like, "honey, could you take care of yourself a little bit better please? Psy shield up!"

Yeah. They all lead risky lives, but Jean takes some immense risks. "Self-sacrificing" for her is on another level.

I gave the example of defending the school on her own once. She could have tried to evacuate the students, right? Some might die, but she'd probably be able to save most.

What does she do? She puts herself in between them and the threat.

It worked, obviously, but it illustrates her disposition.

[davetvs]

It would be interesting if a writer explored Jean's self-sacrificing nature as a kind of flippance or carelessness with her own physical safety because she knows she'll always come back.