Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2024

[Grinning Soul]

It would be interesting if a writer explored Jean's self-sacrificing nature as a kind of flippance or carelessness with her own physical safety because she knows she'll always come back.

Would she be flippant about it, though? She must be aware of how much she's loved and how much people around her suffer when she dies.

Let's compare it with the Krakoa era resurrections. While the numbers of deaths in this era have certainly increased, except for the stupid kids in Way of X, most characters are written as trying to avoid death, despite the fact the resurrection protocols is much more of a given (or, at least, faster) than resurrection through the Phoenix (which can take up 150 years... which means many of those loved ones would be even dead by the time she comes back).

Not challenging you. Just thinking together, okay? How would you write it to make it feel like something she'd really do?

[Psych1c]

To be honest, I understand why she died (plot), but there's no plausible justification for her not to use a TK shield. A character of her level that has been multitasking both her powers in amazing ways can't have a shield up while in a dangerous situation? I don't buy it. Reminds me of Exodus fighting the X-men during X-men Legacy both in the physical and astral plane, and also attacking Magneto while locked in a telepathic battle against Prof. Xavier. You can't tell me she can't do the same or even better than that. She doesn't need to have a multitude of powers like he does, her telekinesis is enough to be able to attack, defend and whatever.

Unless she knew she had to die, somehow.

[Soulsword323]

I'll admit, I was disappointed seeing Gillen's response. I was hoping that we could get more concrete stuff from his time writing Jean and the Phoenix. But I can get why it isn't happening.

[Mercury]

Yes, I do believe I started off by saying exactly that.

There exists a spectrum of satisfaction derived from stories and I'm simply stating that a less-defined connection is less satisfying to me than a more defined connection...particularly in an era that has been so pro-data...or simply put, on the other side of this story I want to feel like I know more about Jean's connection to the Phoenix than before...and not less or be confused. That's it , that's all.

Gotcha!

It would be interesting if a writer explored Jean's self-sacrificing nature as a kind of flippance or carelessness with her own physical safety because she knows she'll always come back.

I would love it if a writer explored this angle/take, actually.

I'll admit, I was disappointed seeing Gillen's response. I was hoping that we could get more concrete stuff from his time writing Jean and the Phoenix. But I can get why it isn't happening.

The thing is that Gillen already established that Jean and Phoenix have an unbreakable connection that flows in an infinite loop where they each take turns guiding one another. How much more explicit should he be, and if he does get more explicit, won't it risk Jean/Phoenix being limited? I think what he and Simonson have had to say about Jean/Phoenix hits just right without unnecessarily pigeonholing them. This is the best their mythos has been described since Morrison’s run, which, by the the way, depicted hundreds of Phoenix hosts alongside Jean as White Phoenix.

[Omega_DCD]

It would be interesting if a writer explored Jean's self-sacrificing nature as a kind of flippance or carelessness with her own physical safety because she knows she'll always come back.

I remember this POV in early X-Force after Xavier was "killed"..not so much careless, but not afraid of death, which she says makes her a better hero...and play the long game.

[Mercury]

We get a fiery treat this week.

[Braxxer]

We get a fiery treat this week.

I’m more curious about dream sequence because it’s second time this month

[Havok83]

How do people feel about the idea of Sara Grey having been used in this Krakoa era in place of Moira? The question was poised about who could have been a different stand-in and I suggested recontextualizing Sara. It couldnt be 1:1 but the basic premise of her reincarnating and working behind the scenes to form Krakoa could work. She was very much a blank slate and would require less retconning and ignoring/destroying existing relationships to fit the story. Her seemingly being assimilated/tainted by the Phalanx in Phalanx Covenant would explain her inevitable heel turn and the climax of this era being a Dominion Sara vs Phoenix Jean would be compelling to watch play out. Her sister essentially being the anti-Phoenix

[Askani's Flame]

How do people feel about the idea of Sara Grey having been used in this Krakoa era in place of Moira? The question was poised about who could have been a different stand-in and I suggested recontextualizing Sara. It couldnt be 1:1 but the basic premise of her reincarnating and working behind the scenes to form Krakoa could work. She was very much a blank slate and would require less retconning and ignoring/destroying existing relationships to fit the story. Her seemingly being assimilated/tainted by the Phalanx in Phalanx Covenant would explain her inevitable heel turn and the climax of this era being a Dominion Sara vs Phoenix Jean would be compelling to watch play out. Her sister essentially being the anti-Phoenix

I still think it's WILD that Sara, Gailyn, and Joey were never ressurected in the Krakoa Era. Like that Jean slept on that.....

But I think it would have been an interesting concept if they went that route. They could have said that she was in fact a mutant as Claremont planned (she was to have latent mental abilities and the ability to jumpstart latent mutant powers in people, and when they scrapped her involvement in X-Factor and killed her in the Phalanx Covenant, Claremont transferred those powers to Sage). I think her powers, plus her history with the Phalanx would have been more emotional than the wild heel turn by Moira. Sara could have corrupted Doug and Warlock, infiltrated Krakoa, and would have been a great final show down for her and Jean.

[Portsian]

We get a fiery treat this week.

Ta for your message and attachment!

[Grinning Soul]

We get a fiery treat this week.

Thank you too, Mercury. But I'm going to resist my curiosity and not open it yet. :)

[SugarMan]

It can't be news for you that fans remember their favorite character was kept out of the books for 20+ years.

Take that into consideration and I suppose you'll be able to understand why.

Another clue: Marvel lies to their fans repeatedly.

Now, no one is saying that anything terrible will *certainly* happen to Jean. But it's a bit much to imply that (some of) her fans are being crazy for being afraid.

I'm sorry, but you've already been shown too much to rely on the "past" card. Nobody's saying you're crazy, but sometimes you have to live in the present, and focus on what's in front of you.

[Grinning Soul]

I'm sorry, but you've already been shown too much to rely on the "past" card. Nobody's saying you're crazy, but sometimes you have to live in the present, and focus on what's in front of you.

No, thanks.

[Celestialbodies]

Just dropping in to see where opinions were on Jean's current state, it seems like everyone would like more clarity but open for what the story offers. I heard great things about Rise not so much about Fall. Idk I just thought we would have more than what we've gotten, I appreciate the attempt to re-establish the relationship with Jean and the PF, but I can't understand why this direction was chosen. We have a renewed relationship with the PF, and the most time in recent memory Jean has spent in the WHR, but most of her development is coming from secondary sources.

I still think it's WILD that Sara, Gailyn, and Joey were never ressurected in the Krakoa Era. Like that Jean slept on that.....

But I think it would have been an interesting concept if they went that route. They could have said that she was in fact a mutant as Claremont planned (she was to have latent mental abilities and the ability to jumpstart latent mutant powers in people, and when they scrapped her involvement in X-Factor and killed her in the Phalanx Covenant, Claremont transferred those powers to Sage). I think her powers, plus her history with the Phalanx would have been more emotional than the wild heel turn by Moira. Sara could have corrupted Doug and Warlock, infiltrated Krakoa, and would have been a great final show down for her and Jean.

I'm not, I don't think outside of Claremont there has been any writers who were interested in developing Jean's familial relationships. This era for example, was maybe one of the first times the Summers/Grey clan was alive and in one place all at the same time and nothing really came of those interrelationships in regards to development.

[Mercury]

Just dropping in to see where opinions were on Jean's current state...

I think her psyche is everywhere; that is, in the past, present, and future, simultaneously. I think fragments of her psyche are simultaneously (1) at the very heart of Phoenix, (2) in her partially resurrected body in the White Hot Room, (3) traversing the landscape of her psychic link with Scott, and (4) on a multiversal journey, as seen in The Original X-Men #1 (2023). And I'm loving it. If nothing else, all of this a testament to the vastness and boundlessness of her psyche and abilities.