Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2024

[Phoenixx9]

Also, borderless, letterless cover:

Jean looks so magnificently Beautiful and Powerful here!

You go Jean!

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

The dress and Shogo should both be shoved into a Kate Pryde bullet and launched.

Put the TAS costume in it too, really.

[Havok83]

Also, borderless, letterless cover:

This is what happens when you piss off a Phoenix. Mother Righteous is gonna learn the same lesson that Emma Frost and Mastermind did so many decades ago

[Mercury]

You're welcome. And perhaps part of me knew all along that Jean and Phoenix were aspects of each other. I just felt it was convoluted at times because I didn't understand the Phoenix as a deliberately mysterious being existing outside of linear time.

I completely understand. My own understanding of Jean and Phoenix has evolved over time. It is inspired by my understanding of Hinduism's Atman and Brahman:

"Atman is that which makes the other organs and faculties function and for which indeed they function; it also underlies all the activities of a person, as Brahman (the Absolute) underlies the workings of the universe. Atman is part of the universal Brahman, with which it can commune or even fuse" (Britannica).

"While Atman is the individual Self, Brahman is the Ultimate Reality, the Supreme Being of God. Brahman is the divine essence of the universe, while Atman is the essence that lives in all matter such as humans, animals, and nature" (Study.com).

All humans and mutants possess Atman (a soul) and "can commune or even fuse" with Brahman (Phoenix or, to quote Claremont, "the sum and substance of all that lives"). However, Jean is distinct in that she possesses a preternaturally singular ability to commune with and embody Brahman. Moreover, her ability, which is beautifully alluded to in X-Men #48 (1968), in which Computo's biosensor-equipped AI declares, "She has infinite mental powers," seems to transcend her mutation. She is one with Brahman not in the same way all humans and mutants are, i.e., because they are creations of Brahman. Rather, she is one with Brahman because, in addition to constituting a pure outpouring of Brahman, her psyche—her mind and essence—is one with Brahman's mind and essence. Gillen implies this when he refers to her as "the Holy Grail, the whole Holy Grail, the blood of the Holy Grail." As I mentioned in another post, in Christian and Arthurian mytho-history, the Holy Grail is "the cup or platter" Jesus Christ used in the Last Supper to share of his body and blood with the apostles. Common Christian belief views all of us as capable of being vessels (i.e., cups and platters) of Christ but not Christ himself (i.e., not Christ's actual body and blood). Gillen's comparison equates Jean with both.

Admittedly, I feel like I'm trying to explain the unexplainable but there you have it. Gnomic stuff, indeed.

I like what Gillen is showing with Jean and her connection to the Phoenix. I am fine with what we are getting and I think he's going to continue to be vague and "woo" about it. I do think that is enough -especially with the complicated history - retcons and a ton of other hosts and contradictory histories, etc. The fact that Jean has this connection and that the WHR is something outside of time - and she is said to always be there when she dies, etc. It is additive to her story imo. When Phoenix Resurrection came out it was such a bummer because it felt Jean went out with a whimper when it comes to being Phoenix. She didn't have a big splashy destiny fulfilled type story. This time she may get it - play a big part in defeating Enigma. I'm down for it.

The highlighted part. What Duggan, Gillen, and Simonson have done is added or, more aptly put, reinstituted core components of Claremont's lore for Jean. Duggan started this movement back in X-Men #4 (2021) and has continued it in the current story, particularly with that dream sequence in X-Men #30 (2024). Gillen accelerated the movement during Judgment Day, with Simonson coming in to underscore it, and Gillen returning to put a fine point on it. It has been quite beautiful and utterly satisfying to behold.

Or she may retain the Phoenix or she may end up with it in name only. Who knows how this will end and what role Jean or even Hope will play. I do think Hope will factor in and I'm of the opinion that Hope will be shelved after this. I've seen other takes on twitter/X and I have had the same idea - maybe Hope remains in the WHR (or what is left of it) while Jean reverts back to human form in the finale. Who knows. Maybe Hope and/or Rachel plays a role in helping or healing Jean.

I don't think there's a question regarding Jean "retain[ing] Phoenix"—Gillen has already made it clear that their shared identity, bond, and relationship are "unbreakable"—as much as regarding her continuing to manifest Phoenix. As for Hope, I can see her recharging Jean/Phoenix using the same abilities Jean/Phoenix imbued her with during AvX #12 (2012), Jean Grey #4 (2023), and Immortal X-Men #17 (2024). I can also see Rachel doing the same.

Incidentally, I shared the following on Twitter yesterday eve:

Imagine: Everyone, confused, scrambles around Jean in the White Hot Room. Ororo’s journey with Magneto leads her to her, and she declares, “My sister and I have done this before. I know what she needs. She needs us!” They heal and “anchor” Jean to do the great work.

Of course, this is a reference to the iconic Uncanny X-Men #108 (1977), in which Jean repairs the M'kraan Crystal after being reenergized by Ororo, Corsair, and the other X-Men due to being depleted from her fight with Firelord. I also referenced the beautiful scene in Phoenix Endsong #5 (2004), in which Emma facilitates everyone who knows and loves Jean sharing their loftiest thoughts and feelings for her with her to aid her in achieving equilibrium. I can definitely see something like both these scenes playing out.

Though Phoenix Resurrection was not what I wanted at the time I have come to appreciate that Jean was without the Phoenix. Taylor's X-men Red and the Hickman/Duggan era has been good for the character in that it displayed her as a leader, and she had many good moments. Duggan gets a lot of criticism but he wrote one of my all time fav issues (Planet Size X-men). I will always be thankful for that issue.

In the grand scheme of Jean's lore, I've come to appreciate Phoenix Resurrection. I understand why she still felt the need to reject a core aspect of herself, especially if one considers her being influenced by the events of not only New X-Men and Phoenix Endsong but also what came after, particularly AvX. She just didn't want to know that much, and I get that.

I'm nervous for the Brevoort era but I am hopeful for good things. Hopefully Cyke, Jean, and Storm will be central in the new era.

I'm excited for it. I think he gets core aspects of the characters in a way that we will come to really appreciate once we see the work under his guidance.

They keep trying to say it without saying it outright, but some people are having trouble getting it.

I understand fans' wariness and weariness even though I think it's belabored. All some fans talk about is how much they don't like something or want more of something else. It's quite monotone.

I think Mother Righteous, who says she has studied the Jean/Phoenix connection for almost a thousand years, will play a hand in "saving" Jean. She knows more about the connection than anyone else in the WHR, even though she's not physically there herself. She knows she's as screwed as everyone else with Enigma running around.

I love this. This would be both surprising and interesting.

After the unwarranted hissy-fit the internet threw? I say “based” to Marvel.

You're bad, lol.

I swear to god, if everyone does not shut up about pregnant-Jean, I will slap them in the face with the damn Marvel Legends leak. Come on, people! Be patient and give things a chance. For the sake of everyone’s sanity, your own included.

All of this, lol.

Jean looks so magnificently Beautiful and Powerful here! You go Jean!

::hug::

The dress and Shogo should both be shoved into a Kate Pryde bullet and launched.

Put the TAS costume in it too, really.

You never stop, lol, Mayhap. ::hug::

This is what happens when you piss off a Phoenix. Mother Righteous is gonna learn the same lesson that Emma Frost and Mastermind did so many decades ago

I thought it obvious that she would end up giving MR the same treatment she gave Mastermind and Emma, but I also like SugarMan's theory a lot.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Never stop what?

[MechaJeanix]

The highlighted part. What Duggan, Gillen, and Simonson have done is added or, more aptly put, reinstituted core components of Claremont's lore for Jean. Duggan started this movement back in X-Men #4 (2021) and has continued it in the current story, particularly with that dream sequence in X-Men #30 (2024). Gillen accelerated the movement during Judgment Day, with Simonson coming in to underscore it, and Gillen returning to put a fine point on it. It has been quite beautiful and utterly satisfying to behold.

In the grand scheme of Jean's lore, I've come to appreciate Phoenix Resurrection. I understand why she still felt the need to reject a core aspect of herself, especially if one considers her being influenced by the events of not only New X-Men and Phoenix Endsong but also what came after, particularly AvX. She just didn't want to know that much, and I get that.

.

All of this.

I feel energized and excited again for the X-men especially after the release date for X-men 97 and with the Krakoa conclusion (for Jean's role - not that the era is ending). I admit the Fall of X has been tough for me to wait out except for a few books. I will keep an open mind with the Brevoort era for sure. If anything us x-fans should be used to change.

[CaptainUniverse]

Also, borderless, letterless cover:

"Now you shall deal with me, O Enigma and all the Phoenix powers of H.E.L.L.!"

[mike7171]

Screenshot 2024-02-20 at 7.11.47 PM.jpg

just saw this..."nowandforevernowandforever"

[Phoenixx9]

"Now you shall deal with me, O Enigma and all the Phoenix powers of H.E.L.L.!"

Perfect, CU! Just add a "Bwahahahahaha!"to it.

As I touted early in 2023, The Phoenix shall soar in 2024!

[Micabe]

That's corny as hell LL! -- You two are killin' me here

[Celestialbodies]

I agree. It's not the pregnancy itself that bothers me, but her history. I'll be honest and say I've never watched the whole classic cartoon entirely, but I know Jean was always being saved by Rogue and could barely fly or lift something without Phoenix. I mean, really?

If she at least does something while pregnant (her powers totally allow her to do it, and they could also have some kind of mother boost moment, like Lorna in The Gifted) I'd be glad. Regarding Storm, Wolverine, Gambit and others, they all look good.

So far, the best Jean adaptation is for sure the Evolution one.

Agreed! It's not one thing it's a variety of things.

This is really not story-telling I have patience for. Like waiting MONTHS for a character to do something at all,....sorry, I love everything I read from Gillen's interviews and I'm excited to find out what is going to happen to Jean. It feels like she is a loaded gun and someone just has to point her in the right direction to reset the universe and burn an evil infection away.

But......how much patience do you expect readers to have? Comicbooks are really a dying medium. I doubt this this slow burn is giving anybody joy.......(*pun not intended)

Seriously, when I commented I was stepping back following IMX 18, I got a very unfortunate comment, several months later what has exactly changed. Listen if the current story works for some fine, but what's been so fascinating about the last 6 months? Watching her die, her re-discovering a relationship that was already established in better stories, a payoff that may or may not validate her absence in body and mind? I've said it before I know that she'll get a moment but is some random moment we may or may not get in the future really worth months of lost agency or confirmation of a relationship that's being hapzardly reconnected? I'm biased as a fan of Jean Grey, but are other fans really saying the best story Marvel could come up with involving Jean Grey, Hope Summers, Destiny, Exodus, and 250,000 mutants all in the WHR, is Jean being helpless and murdered...again?! Like nothing about that has interested me thus far.

I swear to god, if everyone does not shut up about pregnant-Jean, I will slap them in the face with the damn Marvel Legends leak. Come on, people! Be patient and give things a chance. For the sake of everyone’s sanity, your own included.

This isn't an attack on you, but I feel like "wait and see" is repeated in this thread so often and I cannot remember the last time we as fans were rewarded with a fulfilling payoff for it outside of vague statements of "trust me".

Screenshot 2024-02-20 at 7.11.47 PM.jpg

just saw this..."nowandforevernowandforever"

This is a perfect picture of how Gillen has situated Jean in his story, her description as "The Holy Grail" is also another problem with the intention behind how she's placed in stories a tool or item to be attained.

I'll just leave my thoughts here, if you aren't reading Resurrection of Magneto, then pick it up for a master class on how to center a character as the force of the narrative while developing their POV and the characters around them, including high stakes, and giving them agency. We know more about the person behind Magneto in one issue than we've gotten any clarity surrounding anything that has happened with Jean in half a year! That's crazy to me.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Agreed! It's not one thing it's a variety of things.



Seriously, when I commented I was stepping back following IMX 18, I got a very unfortunate comment, several months later what has exactly changed. Listen if the current story works for some fine, but what's been so fascinating about the last 6 months? Watching her die, her re-discovering a relationship that was already established in better stories, a payoff that may or may not validate her absence in body and mind? I've said it before I know that she'll get a moment but is some random moment we may or may not get in the future really worth months of lost agency or confirmation of a relationship that's being hapzardly reconnected? I'm biased as a fan of Jean Grey, but are other fans really saying the best story Marvel could come up with involving Jean Grey, Hope Summers, Destiny, Exodus, and 250,000 mutants all in the WHR, is Jean being helpless and murdered...again?! Like nothing about that has interested me thus far.



This isn't an attack on you, but I feel like "wait and see" is repeated in this thread so often and I cannot remember the last time we as fans were rewarded with a fulfilling payoff for it outside of vague statements of "trust me".



This is a perfect picture of how Gillen has situated Jean in his story, her description as "The Holy Grail" is also another problem with the intention behind how she's placed in stories a tool or item to be attained.

I'll just leave my thoughts here, if you aren't reading Resurrection of Magneto, then pick it up for a master class on how to center a character as the force of the narrative while developing their POV and the characters around them, including high stakes, and giving them agency. We know more about the person behind Magneto in one issue than we've gotten any clarity surrounding anything that has happened with Jean in half a year! That's crazy to me.

Knocked out here, pregnant tradwife over there; there's just not that much interest in her as a narrative character, unfortunately. What I'll say for Gillen is that sometimes he kinda-sorta gives "Jean is Phoenix" dialogue (and then walks it back, but that's more positive for me than I can say about most of what happens to her).

I'm hoping the Wolverine game people are bringing some heat for us in 2025 lmao

[Portsian]

Screenshot 2024-02-20 at 7.11.47 PM.jpg

just saw this..."nowandforevernowandforever"

What is this from?

[PhoenixStudies]

Agreed! It's not one thing it's a variety of things.



Seriously, when I commented I was stepping back following IMX 18, I got a very unfortunate comment, several months later what has exactly changed. Listen if the current story works for some fine, but what's been so fascinating about the last 6 months? Watching her die, her re-discovering a relationship that was already established in better stories, a payoff that may or may not validate her absence in body and mind? I've said it before I know that she'll get a moment but is some random moment we may or may not get in the future really worth months of lost agency or confirmation of a relationship that's being hapzardly reconnected? I'm biased as a fan of Jean Grey, but are other fans really saying the best story Marvel could come up with involving Jean Grey, Hope Summers, Destiny, Exodus, and 250,000 mutants all in the WHR, is Jean being helpless and murdered...again?! Like nothing about that has interested me thus far.



This isn't an attack on you, but I feel like "wait and see" is repeated in this thread so often and I cannot remember the last time we as fans were rewarded with a fulfilling payoff for it outside of vague statements of "trust me".



This is a perfect picture of how Gillen has situated Jean in his story, her description as "The Holy Grail" is also another problem with the intention behind how she's placed in stories a tool or item to be attained.

I'll just leave my thoughts here, if you aren't reading Resurrection of Magneto, then pick it up for a master class on how to center a character as the force of the narrative while developing their POV and the characters around them, including high stakes, and giving them agency. We know more about the person behind Magneto in one issue than we've gotten any clarity surrounding anything that has happened with Jean in half a year! That's crazy to me.

Well he did say she would grow and grow until she consumed the book. So hopefully, we will see her agency and point of view when she comes together and takes on Enigma.

What is this from?

This week's Rise #2.

Now and Forever is Gillen's theme for Jean. Not only was it repeated in Immortal #17, but its what the Progenitor told Jean, "you are the Phoenix, now and forever" and the solit to AXE X-Men was "what part of now and forever don't you understand?" In the solit for Rise #5, Jean is referred to as "one who is now and forever."

[dr237]

Screenshot 2024-02-21 112424.jpg

Should we be worried that Jean isn't in the crowd at the wedding...