Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2024

[whitecrown]

Yeah, Utopia/X-Force was possibly his best era ever I fear, competing only with X-Factor (to each fan to decide which era they consider superior/like the best).
I don't see such a golden (or even a lesser-golden) era to ever return for him unless Marvel decided to bring back the O5 together (and ever there, you still can get All-New XM/X-Men Blue, in which he was a little more than wallpaper). Not with authors being more interested in mutants with more cool powers (or "more appeasing" traits). Authors are entitled to their favourite and to pick characters they like or feel compelled to, mind me (there's nothing worst than an author who is forced to write/use a character they don't like or have nothing to say about!), but I have these feelings that as years go by, and the more the same rooster continues to get attention, the more the other characters stay on the bench with no hope to be picked up.

[Ok, Politically-correct filter off.]
Let me start by saying I don't like to use the term "woke", especially as it now means everything and its contrary, so I seldom use it. But I think here the term fits.

Warren is everything a "woke" author might want to avoid: he's male, white, cis and awfully rich. This on top of not being an Omega. While Warren might be "attractive" for an artist, he's not that much interesting from an author's point of view, when they can pick from literally dozens of other characters with flight plus other powers, and who might also belong to a minority. So you get the same result in a fight/in the plot, but you also win some "representation points", which never hurts.
When a new team is built, either by choice or per mandate, it's required to be (what's the right term? Mixed?). There are other white male characters that get priority over Warren, and even if an author might be "well, I could fit Angel too in here, why not?", they would get to a point where they would have to back down because they need a woman or a POC instead, else their team will be accused of being too white and not representative(?) enough.
[Politically-correct filter on]

I also fear Warren is still suffering from The Dark Angel Saga: that story was so beautiful and impactful, that he isn't allowed to move forward. And even when people have an idea to work with another facet of Warren (see Tiny Howard), they still are held down by the unresolved, repetitive relationship between Warren and the Archangel persona.
(X-Corp had other things on its plate, other reasons for why it failed, but that's not the point I'm trying to make ATM).
Not to say I dislike this trope of his, actually. But I can see why authors wouldn't be interested in picking Warren up, if all Warren offers is that and there's little else to work with. Especially if any other of Warren's facets are already represented by more beloved or more famous characters. You don't pick Warren for his businessman/rich/CEO person facet, you already have Emma for that (and there's also Sunspot). You don't pick him for his "killing machine" facet, there's Wolverine (and others). You don't pick him to be a mutant face in politics and PR-things, you have Storm or Emma or Jean or others. You don't pick him to be a leader of a new (black-ops/not the upcoming Forge's) X-Force, there's Cable or Bishop and others. You don't pick him to be a leader for any team (I think he has everything to be a good one) because there's a list of at least 15 characters who are waiting for that same role and will get precedence over him. You don't even pick him for the contest of "Who Wants to Be Apocalypse's Next Heir" for... reasons (and, anyway, I agree with those here on the boards who wish it's Cable to "win").

I think the position and role he had in X-Corp was what could be best suited for him (provided he kept the Archangel aspect). But that lasted so little, and X-Corp has been handed over to Sunspot's and will likely stay in his control.

So.
Meh.

[OT]
Back then, I think around 1998, I read only the FF: Reborn/Return (it was collected in a book format by an Italian editor - I lent the book to my friend and he never gave it back ç_ç). I remember I liked it (I love middle to late 90s artists). I picked it up now because I want to see how far Marvel went to change the canon backstory of these characters/teams, as I'm toying with an idea of an Onslaught Remixed, in which it is the mutants who have to sacrifice themselves so it's them who are preserved in a new pocket dimension.
So far I'm appreciating. I've just finished the crossover between the titles.
To be fair, I'm not that much hard to please, when I read comics. ^^"
[/OT]

UXF is where I became a major fan of him. I always liked him as an O5 fan but that's really the book that launched him as one of my all-time favs and helped solidify my love for Betsy and Logan as well.

It's funny how the love and nostalgia for the O5 never extends to Warren. Even with the time-displaced O5, Warren was easily the most neglected one. Jean had the most exposure because her present-day counterpart was dead. Scott got angst over who he was going to become. Hank had similar issues plus magic. Bobby got probably the second most spotlight because of his sexuality. Warren was just kinda there. They didn't even bother to really juxtapose him with his future self and cash in on that dynamic. And I agree that the longer he's benched, the harder it'll be for him to become relevant again.

I agree with you on the woke argument. Everything you said makes perfect sense and explains why he isn't used or even if he could be used, why someone else wouldn't be a better fit. Warren basically represents everything that would be looked down upon today as a straight, white male who's also super rich. I think out of the O5, Hank has been spared because he's blue and furry. Meanwhile Bobby has unique powers plus his new sexuality means he's in the clear. Warren doesn't have anything like that. Maybe he needs to become blue and angsty again for people to feel more comfortable with him lol.

I wonder why Warren can't move beyond The Dark Angel Saga even though Jean could with The Dark Phoenix Saga. Connections to Apocalypse have not helped bring back Warren either in any meaningful capacity. It seems like what he needs is his own mythos or something beyond Apocalypse to establish him as relevant again. Because otherwise, he gets dragged into becoming a mindless horseman again with no agency of his own beyond the direction of his metal wings. I wasn't a huge fan of Austen's mythology with the angels vs demons that Warren and Kurt got dragged into but maybe something more on the angel side would be necessary for him. Maybe even establishing him as a fallen angel because it seems the X-Men who thrive in terms of popularity are the ones that have something extra besides just being a mutant. Wolverine with Weapon X, Jean with Phoenix, Storm with her mystical lineage and royal status, Betsy with Otherworld, Rogue with her Ms. Marvel powers, etc. I always felt the Apocalypse/Phoenix dichotomy was something that should be explored more especially with Archangel as Apocalypse's heir but closely linked to Jean/Phoenix but that could even be done with some sort of angelic mythology. The flaming wings or flaming sword might need to come back to give Warren that something extra.

And you're right that what he does technically have in terms of something extra is all stuff that others can fill whether being rich or being a leader. Cavern X established him as the X-Men's Batman so I'd like something more like that with Warren leading and funding a team from his own HQ which is a love letter to the X-Men. If Tony Stark can more or less fund the Avengers and stay relevant, something similar should be done with Warren on the X-Men/mutant side. Sunspot though has been getting a big boost between joining the Avengers and now X-Men '97 so it does seem like he's a credible threat now as well.

I'm surprised you enjoyed Heroes Reborn, at least with the FF, because it's very controversial and disliked by Marvel fans usually. I think the FF stuff wasn't so bad as much as the Avengers stuff like making Wasp into an actual insect. I do like the idea of mutants entering their own pocket dimension although Krakoa almost did something similar in terms of isolating the X-Men from the rest of the superhero community. A world/dimension where mutants are the norm instead of the minority might be interesting especially if created as a result of Onslaught or Franklin.

[Hakka84]

It's funny how the love and nostalgia for the O5 never extends to Warren. Even with the time-displaced O5, Warren was easily the most neglected one. Jean had the most exposure because her present-day counterpart was dead. Scott got angst over who he was going to become. Hank had similar issues plus magic. Bobby got probably the second most spotlight because of his sexuality. Warren was just kinda there. They didn't even bother to really juxtapose him with his future self and cash in on that dynamic. And I agree that the longer he's benched, the harder it'll be for him to become relevant again.

His treatment as the time-displaced teen is still a sore spot for me. They did have good ideas ("let's get back and I'll go as far away from you!!"; the memoryless!Warren encounter; Laura; Black Vortex) but only touched them (Jean brainwashes him twice and no adult thinks they should sit down with Warren and talk; he never were shown or explain exactly how he became that way as an adult nor they hanged up on panel again; why he was drawn to her and yes, the whole "at some point the authors didn't bother with them anymore"; why he kept the enhancements and how far he was willing to go to distance himself from the future he doesn't even know the details about, and nobody told him that he was exactly doing the same descent as his future!self and he didn't even have the "I lost my wings" excuse)

(...)Maybe he needs to become blue and angsty again for people to feel more comfortable with him lol.

Me and Thievery discussed a bit more than once, and we'll never agree on this. But. Warren is a posterboy for bipolar disorders. If Marvel is set on keeping the whole "I can't control Archangel/he's another person", then they should commit to it and make Warren someone who has been diagnosed and has to cope with this.
I know it could be dangerous, to "stick" Warren to such a narrative (and also no authors I think could tackle such a theme in a way that isn't offensive or uninformed). But 1)it would make sense given his story in the last 14 years and 2)at this point, it's his only way to stay relevant, when he doesn't have anything else in his "arsenal".

Connections to Apocalypse have not helped bring back Warren either in any meaningful capacity. It seems like what he needs is his own mythos or something beyond Apocalypse to establish him as relevant again.(...)

Depends. If Apoccy is around, Warren is doomed to be his "second" at best and his tool as worst, I agree. Plus, the introduction of Poccy's children further moved him back in the line. Before, he was Poccy's heir and favourite and the only one he referred to as "son". After them... he still likes/loves him (he was a proud dad when they shared panel in X of Swords) but he clearly cannot compete to Poccy's real children. Besides, Hickman established that all the horsemen were "pale replacement" (don't remember the exact quote ATM) of his children.
(although, IMHO, I think Warren, the two instances in which he was fully his(=Apoccy's), he did better than Genesis's children did, and they are fitted with powers way above Warren's level!)
But I think Warren could've benefitted to become Poccy's heir in the coming miniseries. Although we still don't know what that role means and if it will give some boost/screentime to the character who will win.

Cavern X established him as the X-Men's Batman so I'd like something more like that with Warren leading and funding a team from his own HQ which is a love letter to the X-Men.

Would love that!
I'm still bitter that he was the only one to not be involved with the Children of the Atom, when Cherub clearly homaged him in the first place. Remy was left out as well, if I remember right, but he had chances later to take Gimmick as some kind of protegee (also, technically he was used in Excalibur, while Warren was nowhere to be seen and free to be used). Instead of using Storm (who was already a stable member of the Marauders and had more scenes as members of the QC), he could've been him the one to keep tabs on these X-Men Homage Superhero Team. Warren is a founder and one of the few who served also in non-mutant teams, not the last emerged mutant, it would've been equally cool for those teens to meet him in the flesh.

I think I remember liking it the FF's Reborn/Return. Not even sure the volume collected both or just Return, actually. As I said, I'm easy to please (I liked X-Corp, isn't that proof? XD)
Gonna hit you on PM to not annoy the others here in the thread about the last bit.

[whitecrown]

His treatment as the time-displaced teen is still a sore spot for me. They did have good ideas ("let's get back and I'll go as far away from you!!"; the memoryless!Warren encounter; Laura; Black Vortex) but only touched them (Jean brainwashes him twice and no adult thinks they should sit down with Warren and talk; he never were shown or explain exactly how he became that way as an adult nor they hanged up on panel again; why he was drawn to her and yes, the whole "at some point the authors didn't bother with them anymore"; why he kept the enhancements and how far he was willing to go to distance himself from the future he doesn't even know the details about, and nobody told him that he was exactly doing the same descent as his future!self and he didn't even have the "I lost my wings" excuse)


Me and Thievery discussed a bit more than once, and we'll never agree on this. But. Warren is a posterboy for bipolar disorders. If Marvel is set on keeping the whole "I can't control Archangel/he's another person", then they should commit to it and make Warren someone who has been diagnosed and has to cope with this.
I know it could be dangerous, to "stick" Warren to such a narrative (and also no authors I think could tackle such a theme in a way that isn't offensive or uninformed). But 1)it would make sense given his story in the last 14 years and 2)at this point, it's his only way to stay relevant, when he doesn't have anything else in his "arsenal".


Depends. If Apoccy is around, Warren is doomed to be his "second" at best and his tool as worst, I agree. Plus, the introduction of Poccy's children further moved him back in the line. Before, he was Poccy's heir and favourite and the only one he referred to as "son". After them... he still likes/loves him (he was a proud dad when they shared panel in X of Swords) but he clearly cannot compete to Poccy's real children. Besides, Hickman established that all the horsemen were "pale replacement" (don't remember the exact quote ATM) of his children.
(although, IMHO, I think Warren, the two instances in which he was fully his(=Apoccy's), he did better than Genesis's children did, and they are fitted with powers way above Warren's level!)
But I think Warren could've benefitted to become Poccy's heir in the coming miniseries. Although we still don't know what that role means and if it will give some boost/screentime to the character who will win.


Would love that!
I'm still bitter that he was the only one to not be involved with the Children of the Atom, when Cherub clearly homaged him in the first place. Remy was left out as well, if I remember right, but he had chances later to take Gimmick as some kind of protegee (also, technically he was used in Excalibur, while Warren was nowhere to be seen and free to be used). Instead of using Storm (who was already a stable member of the Marauders and had more scenes as members of the QC), he could've been him the one to keep tabs on these X-Men Homage Superhero Team. Warren is a founder and one of the few who served also in non-mutant teams, not the last emerged mutant, it would've been equally cool for those teens to meet him in the flesh.

I think I remember liking it the FF's Reborn/Return. Not even sure the volume collected both or just Return, actually. As I said, I'm easy to please (I liked X-Corp, isn't that proof? XD)
Gonna hit you on PM to not annoy the others here in the thread about the last bit.

The relationship with Laura never went as far as I thought it would. It seemed to fizzle out rather quick, although I didn't mind at the time because I wasn't really a fan of this pairing. Jean's behavior with Warren really bugged me. Especially since he was her closest friend during this era, moreso than emotionally distant Scott, so the fact that Jean was constantly picking on him didn't sit well with me and felt OOC. But Teen Jean in general didn't feel very authentic to her 60s counterpart. I wonder if the reason teen Warren and his adult counterpart never got anymore screentime together is because Marvel seemed just as clueless about what to do with Nu-Angel. There's an X-Men movie script from the mid-late 90s which would have featured the O5 and Wolverine as the main cast. I like it but what disappointed me was that Warren was basically an afterthought. Xavier feels Warren's wings only equip him to work as a scout and not as an active team member and from what I remember, the very first battle of the movie proves Xavier to be right so Warren is benched. Then halfway through the movie, he sneaks out to track the Brotherhood but gets caught and his wings basically maimed so he sits out the rest of the film. Reading that made me realize that Warren's treatment with the time-displaced O5 isn't anything new.

I think making Warren the poster child for mental illness could either make or break him. It could shed awareness and have people who struggle with similar issues really resonate him since he seems to lack any traits that help him connect with fans, especially new fans. But I also don't think Marvel has a very good track record when it comes to mental illness and probably they wouldn't do him justice which could only further taint the character. I think of Lorna and how she's been rotting in obscurity for decades. And Wanda's mental issues were used as a plot device with no regard to her characterization for years.

Apocalypse seems to have been written so inconsistently. I haven't really been following him in the Krakoa era but he's such a shadow of what he used to be that it doesn't surprise me that linking Warren to him further would only hurt at this point. But 90s nostalgia, particularly with Apocalypse, could help restore him and wherever Apocalypse goes, Archangel usually follows. It might take a lot more 90s nostalgia to give Warren some more relevance even if it's only in Archangel form. I never cared that much for him exclusively as Archangel (John Byrne also said in the 90s that he wanted to turn him right back to regular Angel) but I'll take whatever we can get of him now.

I never read Children of the Atom. Most of the Krakoa period I've tried to avoid but Children of the Atom especially seemed to confuse me (alongside that female Colossus with the soulsword). I assumed Warren was connected based on the winged character depicted but I guess not. What a shame. If you read X-Men: Millennial Visions, which features dozens of alternate realities, Warren is prominently featured in those or characters somewhat based on him and his wings. I know there was one version where Warren was replaced by his son, a child but actually a demon in disguise, so when it comes to these legacy/next generation characters, it feels weird that Warren is getting snubbed now.

Wasn't X-Corp more or less the only X-Title from the last few years that utilized Warren? I don't blame you for liking it then. Reading your pm now.

[Havok83]

I liked Warren and Laura. I know many didnt but they seemed to suit each other to me. Their dynamic really reminded me of him and Betsy which is probably why I saw the chemistry. I kinda dislike that its all been ignored. Yeah it may feel weird to acknowledge it given the age stuff, but it did happen and would probably make for an interesting scene to have it brought up. Scott, Jean, and Bobby have all had their teen selve's history referenced but that hasnt been the case for Warren nor Hank I believe

[Hakka84]

X-Men: The End. I'm in the half of book 2 of 3.
For now Warren has been in ... one page. One.single.page, three panels. These:


Frustrating that main X-Men are paired off (Hank is married, Rogue/Gambit and Scott/Emma with children) or there are hints that they do have a romances going on, but Warren (and Betsy I guess) no.
It's an odd timesetting. 15 years in the future but heavily connected to X-status of the time (the XSE and Storms paralysed, Xavier/Magnus/Callisto-with-tentacles in Genosha).
What I can find of positive of this Warren so far are two aesthetical things: the little wrinkles around his eyes and big good drawn wings. There hasn't been a good scene to properly see it, but his costume seem interesting: keeps the Archangel's marks/patterns (especially on the legs), all red with black markings.
Oh. I was wrong about Dazzler. For now I haven't even spotted her. Her running for Presidency was from the future with long-bearded Iceman. My bad.

Yes, I have your same fears about mental issues, Whitecrown. And yes, Lorna came to my mind when I was typing out. I don't trust Marvel too. But in the alternate timeline in which we can trust Marvel to handle adult stories... *sigh*
Marvel should return to have an adult-themed line.

The stories in those Millennial Visions are quite wild, aren't they? *coff coff*

I liked Warren and Laura. I know many didnt but they seemed to suit each other to me. Their dynamic really reminded me of him and Betsy which is probably why I saw the chemistry. I kinda dislike that its all been ignored. Yeah it may feel weird to acknowledge it given the age stuff, but it did happen and would probably make for an interesting scene to have it brought up. Scott, Jean, and Bobby have all had their teen selve's history referenced but that hasnt been the case for Warren nor Hank I believe

I'd agree IF Laura/Warren did end like it did. If they had been allowed to at least break up amicably. But in the crossover when the teens return in the past, they don't even interact to say goodbye. But right after the adult!O5 get the memories unlocked, adult!Warren is seen helping Laura get up in the background, which was a cute nod to their relationship all things considered (or, at least, this is how I read that panel).
As I was saying, if the pair had received more care from the authors, I would've loved to see Laura and adult!Warren maintain a closeness, caring for each other (not romantically and not even platonically!), but as two people who have learned to feel great affection for each other.

[whitecrown]

X-Men: The End. I'm in the half of book 2 of 3.
For now Warren has been in ... one page. One.single.page, three panels. These:


Frustrating that main X-Men are paired off (Hank is married, Rogue/Gambit and Scott/Emma with children) or there are hints that they do have a romances going on, but Warren (and Betsy I guess) no.
It's an odd timesetting. 15 years in the future but heavily connected to X-status of the time (the XSE and Storms paralysed, Xavier/Magnus/Callisto-with-tentacles in Genosha).
What I can find of positive of this Warren so far are two aesthetical things: the little wrinkles around his eyes and big good drawn wings. There hasn't been a good scene to properly see it, but his costume seem interesting: keeps the Archangel's marks/patterns (especially on the legs), all red with black markings.
Oh. I was wrong about Dazzler. For now I haven't even spotted her. Her running for Presidency was from the future with long-bearded Iceman. My bad.

Yes, I have your same fears about mental issues, Whitecrown. And yes, Lorna came to my mind when I was typing out. I don't trust Marvel too. But in the alternate timeline in which we can trust Marvel to handle adult stories... *sigh*
Marvel should return to have an adult-themed line.

The stories in those Millennial Visions are quite wild, aren't they? *coff coff*

Wow, that's disappointing. I figured Warren didn't have a big role but only to have three panels when you've read half the series is really something. Especially how casually he dismisses Betsy's death (although she's been alive in this continuity anyway so maybe that's why there's not much concern for revenge on Warren's part).

At least Claremont didn't pair up Betsy with Neal. I don't think even he cared about Neal by this point.

Warren's costume is unique but I'm not a huge fan tbh. It reminds me a little of his Archangel costume but in a different color scheme with a slightly different pattern.

That's what I figured about Dazzler because Claremont was not the kind of person to give her much importance, let alone the presidency. That's reserved for a very different mutant, albeit one who debuted at the same time.

Some of the Millennial Visions realities I'd like to see more of. Particularly the one where Xavier is dead, Jean absorbs Cerebra and becomes crippled and the new Xavier, and the Morlocks are part of the X-Men now.

[Havok83]

I'd agree IF Laura/Warren did end like it did. If they had been allowed to at least break up amicably. But in the crossover when the teens return in the past, they don't even interact to say goodbye. But right after the adult!O5 get the memories unlocked, adult!Warren is seen helping Laura get up in the background, which was a cute nod to their relationship all things considered (or, at least, this is how I read that panel).
As I was saying, if the pair had received more care from the authors, I would've loved to see Laura and adult!Warren maintain a closeness, caring for each other (not romantically and not even platonically!), but as two people who have learned to feel great affection for each other.

Oh wow, i never noticed that before! I really like your take on it!

[berserkerclaw]

Iif not X-factor i wonder what book Warrwn would fit out of the 3 X-men books. I'd say almost Cyclops X-MEN

[Havok83]

Warren has been found!

spoilers:

He was seen in Rise of X and X-Men Forever among the dead characters in the White Hot Room so we have an idea for how he will be resurrected

end of spoilers

[Hakka84]

X-Men: The End finished.
Warren dies (not much a spoiler here). But the how... a so stupid death. Not stupid in itself, but a joke for the reader
spoilers:

they're having a moment of celebration because they took out the strategist of the enemies on the field (thanks to Scott planning a tactic, Warren being his eyes, and Monet helping - mirrors held so Scott can kill the guy), and Warren is burned to a crisp. At least Monet avenges him ("Warren, my dear friend, this is for you..."). But many people die in this way, without even having the chance to defend themselves. I think his death was instantaneous, he didn't suffer like, say, Lorna. And Scott anguished over his death ("My oldest rival, my oldest friend"). ç_ç It's at least the second time I read a Warren killed by being burned to a crips (Wolverine: Days of Future Past), and possibly happens elsewhere too. It's becoming a pattern.

end of spoilers

On the chest the black lines converge toward centre where there's a big "A". Which, hm, I don't see Warren ever going around with a costume with a big letter on it (also, wearing the "A" is Apocalypse's thing). That's the only ugly piece of an otherwise ok costume.

Dazzler pops up, gets to fight a bit. Not sure if she survived or not, I don't remember if she's shown dying but I didn't notice her in the finale either. The two lines she says feel In character (for the Dazzler I remember from her 70/80s solo).

Warren has been found!

spoilers:

He was seen in Rise of X and X-Men Forever among the dead characters in the White Hot Room so we have an idea for how he will be resurrected

end of spoilers

spoilers:

When Dark X-Men and the other minis were out, I seem to recall there was a discussion about the new deaths not having the chance to go to the White Hot Room? Anyway. Good to know. I think we all expected this since last week(?) when Xavier spoke about using Jean/the Phoenix/whateveritis to resurrect everyone. So we can finally put to rest the speculations that Warren's Giant Size story could be set in the past.

end of spoilers

Iif not X-factor i wonder what book Warrwn would fit out of the 3 X-men books. I'd say almost Cyclops X-MEN

Do we still have hopes that he will show up somewhere?

Oh wow, i never noticed that before! I really like your take on it!

It's interesting also because he goes to Laura, never to Betsy (I seem to recall Betsy was in the scene as well?)
Might be wrong, but didn't he reach for Laura another time few pages earlier?

[whitecrown]

X-Men: The End finished.
Warren dies (not much a spoiler here). But the how... a so stupid death. Not stupid in itself, but a joke for the reader
spoilers:

they're having a moment of celebration because they took out the strategist of the enemies on the field (thanks to Scott planning a tactic, Warren being his eyes, and Monet helping - mirrors held so Scott can kill the guy), and Warren is burned to a crisp. At least Monet avenges him ("Warren, my dear friend, this is for you..."). But many people die in this way, without even having the chance to defend themselves. I think his death was instantaneous, he didn't suffer like, say, Lorna. And Scott anguished over his death ("My oldest rival, my oldest friend"). ç_ç It's at least the second time I read a Warren killed by being burned to a crips (Wolverine: Days of Future Past), and possibly happens elsewhere too. It's becoming a pattern.

end of spoilers

On the chest the black lines converge toward centre where there's a big "A". Which, hm, I don't see Warren ever going around with a costume with a big letter on it (also, wearing the "A" is Apocalypse's thing). That's the only ugly piece of an otherwise ok costume.

Dazzler pops up, gets to fight a bit. Not sure if she survived or not, I don't remember if she's shown dying but I didn't notice her in the finale either. The two lines she says feel In character (for the Dazzler I remember from her 70/80s solo).

I think a lot of other characters died in similar ways, pretty gruesome without any goodbyes or closure, so I guess Warren is slightly better off.

The costumes in X-Men: The End were always pretty horrendous for just about everyone.

I checked online Dazzler's fate and she did die. I never read X-Men: The End in real time but the fact that it ran from 2004-2006 makes me feel sorry for the people who did keep up with it for almost 2 years because this garbage was not worth it. I've heard that originally it was meant to be a collab between Byrne and Claremont until Byrne left after X-Men: The Hidden Years was cancelled, and I just wish we had gotten that instead. It would actually have felt like an ode to the X-Men and I guarantee that Warren would not have been incinerated like he was.

[Til]

spoilers:

Warren's alive! He didn't have any lines, but at least he's alive and is part of the fight to defend Krakoa.

end of spoilers

[whitecrown]

And in case anyone cares, the status of Warren in X-Men '97 has been confirmed by Beau on Twitter.
spoilers:

he's still alive.

end of spoilers

[Sutekh]

Depends. If Apoccy is around, Warren is doomed to be his "second" at best and his tool as worst, I agree. Plus, the introduction of Poccy's children further moved him back in the line. Before, he was Poccy's heir and favourite and the only one he referred to as "son". After them... he still likes/loves him (he was a proud dad when they shared panel in X of Swords) but he clearly cannot compete to Poccy's real children. Besides, Hickman established that all the horsemen were "pale replacement" (don't remember the exact quote ATM) of his children.
(although, IMHO, I think Warren, the two instances in which he was fully his(=Apoccy's), he did better than Genesis's children did, and they are fitted with powers way above Warren's level!)
But I think Warren could've benefitted to become Poccy's heir in the coming miniseries. Although we still don't know what that role means and if it will give some boost/screentime to the character who will win.

While I mostly agree with this part, it seems clear that Apocalypse is deeply disappointed in three out of four of his old kids. A pseudo-rivalry / friendship between the one who hasn't disappointed him, Death, and Warren, his modern day chosen heir, could be interesting.

The 'son from the first wife' meeting the 'son from the new wife' sort of dynamic, only with that crazy comics twist.

"Hm. He called *you* Death? You can't even kill people by looking at them! I do like the idea of being able to fly high above it all, that sounds... serene..."

[Thirteen]

Yeah, Utopia/X-Force was possibly his best era ever I fear, competing only with X-Factor (to each fan to decide which era they consider superior/like the best).
I don't see such a golden (or even a lesser-golden) era to ever return for him unless Marvel decided to bring back the O5 together (and ever there, you still can get All-New XM/X-Men Blue, in which he was a little more than wallpaper). Not with authors being more interested in mutants with more cool powers (or "more appeasing" traits). Authors are entitled to their favourite and to pick characters they like or feel compelled to, mind me (there's nothing worst than an author who is forced to write/use a character they don't like or have nothing to say about!), but I have these feelings that as years go by, and the more the same rooster continues to get attention, the more the other characters stay on the bench with no hope to be picked up.

[Ok, Politically-correct filter off.]
Let me start by saying I don't like to use the term "woke", especially as it now means everything and its contrary, so I seldom use it. But I think here the term fits.

Warren is everything a "woke" author might want to avoid: he's male, white, cis and awfully rich.

Warren Worthington/Bruce Wayne, the crossover we need in the next Amalgam event!
Throw in Tony Stark as a spoiler with the ladies...