Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2024

[Lucas 35]

I'm curious, did Teen Warren ever interact with the real Adult Warren? I remember that at the time of Bendis, Warren was having amnesia and acting strange and innocent which scared young Angel, but later, at the time of Cullen Bunn, Warren was already back to normal, had all the memories and was back to being the Archangel, so has there ever been a scene or story with past Teen Warren interacting with future Warren in any comics?

[CGAR]

Its cool that the Warren thread is thriving but some of you really act like Warren has ownership of Betsy or that Betsy belongs to Warren and thats just off putting.

[Til]

I'm curious, did Teen Warren ever interact with the real Adult Warren? I remember that at the time of Bendis, Warren was having amnesia and acting strange and innocent which scared young Angel, but later, at the time of Cullen Bunn, Warren was already back to normal, had all the memories and was back to being the Archangel, so has there ever been a scene or story with past Teen Warren interacting with future Warren in any comics?

I'd be interested to know, too. I mostly stopped reading Marvel after Secret Wars, and only continued reading X-Men here and there before dropping them completely after IvX. I only started reading again with Krakoa, so there's a good bit of Angel content I missed. I remember when Teen Warren interacted with NuAngel, but anything beyond that would be news to me.

Also, holy crap I missed a LOT in this thread. I'm going to have to get caught up later tonight.

[Hakka84]

Edit. I just noticed the views. Well, that Wings does more views than Jean (who produces two pages of thread in few hours) definitely is... wrong and bizarre indeed.

I'm curious, did Teen Warren ever interact with the real Adult Warren? I remember that at the time of Bendis, Warren was having amnesia and acting strange and innocent which scared young Angel, but later, at the time of Cullen Bunn, Warren was already back to normal, had all the memories and was back to being the Archangel, so has there ever been a scene or story with past Teen Warren interacting with future Warren in any comics?

They did interact in an issue: All-New X-Men #8. Adult!Warren was still in his "I'm a real Angel" phase and, understandably, that freaked out teen!Warren. Teen!W needed answers about his future but present!W had none.
They never interacted again. There's just a mention from Kitty Pryde I think, about "how do we tell Warren that his little self left the school" when, few issues later, teen!Warren decides to break the team and follow Scott and Ilyana.

Its cool that the Warren thread is thriving but some of you really act like Warren has ownership of Betsy or that Betsy belongs to Warren and thats just off putting.

In my case the thing works on the other way as well (Betsy owning Warren, with TK-made collar and leash actually).

Anyway. I understand why it could feel offputting.
Luckily, Warren is more than his romance with Betsy and his long editorial life offers other topic to discuss. But Betsy has been a huge (and influencing) part of his life, and, understandably, Betsy is a recurring subject and she pops ups now and then, but not too often IMHO.
(Let me say it: Betsy had more influence on Warren than Warren ever had on Betsy. Call it bad writing or just the different way the two characters face life and hurdles, but that's the truth. So, on the topic of who depends/belongs to, it's Warren to Betsy and not the other way).

[OT]
@Grinning Soul
I can attest that the advice works most of the time.
I have more projects on the works (lately I'm focused on W/B, but I have other fandoms going), luckily most of the days I manage to work on something. My issue is that I usually "write in one go" for a day or a week (or a month) then, for many reasons (RL complications, lack of time, a bad day/week, other project stealing my focus), I hit a break, and then I fail to retrieve the "voice"/drive for the first specific project. For the Krakoan project, I was almost 90% done: it was mostly a summary of what we see in canon and some kind of synopsis-like of what could've happened off-panel. But then I had the idea to force teen!W in the analysis, and reshuffle some things and expand to give more room to Betsy's thoughts about the recent feats and tragedies that led to her bitter self of Storm's X-Force - from a draft/expanded analysis on canon it became a proper fanfiction, and I lost control of everything. These characters who want to exert control! ^^"
[/OT]

[Thievery]

I'm curious, did Teen Warren ever interact with the real Adult Warren? I remember that at the time of Bendis, Warren was having amnesia and acting strange and innocent which scared young Angel, but later, at the time of Cullen Bunn, Warren was already back to normal, had all the memories and was back to being the Archangel, so has there ever been a scene or story with past Teen Warren interacting with future Warren in any comics?

Yes. It happened in an issue of X-Men Blue, if I recall correctly. Real Adult Warren introduced Teen Warren to the army of Sleeper mutants that Archangel was leading. The interaction wasn't very long, though. I'll try to hunt down the comic that it happens in for you.

Its cool that the Warren thread is thriving but some of you really act like Warren has ownership of Betsy or that Betsy belongs to Warren and thats just off putting.

Nah, LoganAlpha30X33 isn't really that bad when you get to know him . Just kidding with ya, Logan.

The rest of us might discuss Betsy every now and then, but I think that everyone has given up on them getting back together.

She just comes up in this thread a lot lately for a few reasons.

Betsy played a large role in the Angel character's history. That alone will cause her to be brought up.
The topic that has driven this thread the most lately is family and how Warren views it. Betsy has been brought up in those discusions but so have Jean, Charlotte and her family, and Paige and her family. And Warren's children the Apocalypse twins have also been brought up.
I honestly feel as if a good portion of the talk around Betsy lately has been about why Warren recognized that a long term relationship with Betsy wouldn't work and why he chose to end it When Claremont broke them up.

Another reason that she comes up is because forum members like to share AU fanfic story ideas in this thread. Betsy plays a role in some of them.

I don't think that Betsy coming up in this thread is any different than Pete Wisdom, Tom Lennox, or even Archangel coming up in Betsy's thread.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if forum members only lurk this thread because they are afraid that some of us will shout them down if they say that they want Betsy/Warren back. They don't need to be afraid.
If you are unregistered and only reads this thread, don't be afraid to register and post here. We won't tear you down.

CGAR, if you want to post in this thread but not about anything that has to do with Betsy, than don't worry. Just bring up something that you want to talk about and ignore the rest. This thread can handle more than one topic at a time.

I'd be interested to know, too. I mostly stopped reading Marvel after Secret Wars, and only continued reading X-Men here and there before dropping them completely after IvX. I only started reading again with Krakoa, so there's a good bit of Angel content I missed. I remember when Teen Warren interacted with NuAngel, but anything beyond that would be news to me.

Also, holy crap I missed a LOT in this thread. I'm going to have to get caught up later tonight.

It's nice to see you in this thread again, Til. I thought that you had given up on us.

Have you had a chance to read either of the Archangel: Phantom Wings or the Angel-Revelations miniseries yet?

[Thievery]

Let me say this, in case I gave the wrong impression on my post: I didn’t mean that Warren was so angry he wasn’t talking to Scott. He was doing more than talking, he was doing his best to help Scott.

That being said, two options here from here:

1) I can show you the panels and explain why I read this way.
2) We can just agree to disagree.

Both are fine, really. Let me know.

Sorry to leave the impression that I thought you were suggesting that Warren was so mad at Scott that they weren't even talking.

I'm fine with however you want to tackle the topic.

If your want to agree to disagree that's fine. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. This thread doesn't just belong to a small handful of people who all share the same opinion.

If you feel like posting some pretty pictures to help make a point, that's fine also.

I don't get to choose how you talk about the characters. Say and do what you want.

[Grinning Soul]

[OT]
@Grinning Soul
I can attest that the advice works most of the time.
I have more projects on the works (lately I'm focused on W/B, but I have other fandoms going), luckily most of the days I manage to work on something. My issue is that I usually "write in one go" for a day or a week (or a month) then, for many reasons (RL complications, lack of time, a bad day/week, other project stealing my focus), I hit a break, and then I fail to retrieve the "voice"/drive for the first specific project. For the Krakoan project, I was almost 90% done: it was mostly a summary of what we see in canon and some kind of synopsis-like of what could've happened off-panel. But then I had the idea to force teen!W in the analysis, and reshuffle some things and expand to give more room to Betsy's thoughts about the recent feats and tragedies that led to her bitter self of Storm's X-Force - from a draft/expanded analysis on canon it became a proper fanfiction, and I lost control of everything. These characters who want to exert control! ^^"
[/OT]

I see. I’m the kind of person who needs to focus, so I admire people who can juggle lots of projects at the same time. :)

When you do have something, please, let me know? I’d like to read it. :)

Sorry to leave the impression that I thought you were suggesting that Warren was so mad at Scott that they weren't even talking.

You didn’t give the impression. But it occurred to me if *I* might have expressed myself wrong. English is not my native language. It happens a lot.

I'm fine with however you want to tackle the topic.

If your want to agree to disagree that's fine. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. This thread doesn't just belong to a small handful of people who all share the same opinion.

If you feel like posting some pretty pictures to help make a point, that's fine also.

I don't get to choose how you talk about the characters. Say and do what you want.

Sure, but it doesn’t make much sense to go into detail if you’re not interested, right?

I’d just be hogging the thread and wasting everyone’s time. That’s why I asked. :)

[Thievery]

Sure, but it doesn’t make much sense to go into detail if you’re not interested, right?

I’d just be hogging the thread and wasting everyone’s time. That’s why I asked.

I fell asleep while logged in. You must have posted while I was sleeping. Sorry.

You wouldn't be hogging the thread. You would be talking about a subject that you liked

I'm sure that there are people besides myself who would be interested in your pics. They may like to get in on the conversation and debate.
I am interested in pics and talking.

So post way with the pics if you still feel like it.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I don't push for Betsy to date anybody but Warren and I don't push for Warren to date anybody but Betsy, so if there's any ownership it's equal opportunity ownership.

[Thievery]

I don't push for Betsy to date anybody but Warren and I don't push for Warren to date anybody but Betsy, so if there's any ownership it's equal opportunity ownership.

Cool, guy. Now I want to know who it is that you have chosen for Warren. After all these years I just have to know who it is that you have settled for.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I don't settle and it's still Warren for Betsy and Betsy for Warren, Betsy and Rachel will split up. The only real question is when, they're not forever.

I've been a Logan and Jean fan since day one over 30 years ago. I don't change my pairings much if at all.

[Hakka84]

When you do have something, please, let me know? I’d like to read it.

I shall. I technically don't work on more than one project at the same time, but I can put on a break one, move to another, then move back and so on.
This on top of doing manips. I lately manipped the Hellfire Dauterman's covers to make Betsy and Warren show up together on the Green(?) carpet as a pair.
Something that to Mr. Dauterman would take 5 minutes tops with a pen, and took me 8hrs with photoshop. *rofl*
Edit: some months ago I shared a reflection on Warren's women, I think you were the one who commented it.

I'm sure that there are people besides myself who would be interested in your pics. They may like to get in on the conversation and debate.
I am interested in pics and talking.

*raises hand* Please hog the thread!

Man, it's so hard to picture anyone who could date Warren. I understand there was a chemistry between him and Monet in X-Corp (I recognize the "enemies/bickering to lovers" trope when I see it), but I don't think they would work as a pair. Must be a strong-willed woman (of all his dates, I think Paige was the less "strong-willed", and Paiges isn't a delicate flower IHMO) but not self-centered (something I fear Monet is, but I don't know her enough to judge). Not necessarily a mom-type, but someone who isn't solitaire either. Hm.
(said this, depending on the author, any pair can work).
If I remember right, you Thievery once advocated for Lorna?

Edit. If comics dwelled less on feast/fights and more on the (soap)drama and the characters inner turmoil, I think Warren would stay single for a while. I believe that, when you exit a very long and complicated relationship that involved not only "classic" hurdles but also deaths, ascensions, telepathic control/therapy and so on, a relationship that is hinted was about to move forward the next step (the UXF panel I posted a couple of pages ago) and ended with a "I'll never forgive you for this!", I think Warren would want to stay as far away as love as he could.
But this is me trying to apply real-life standards to comic book lives.
Or he could rebound, that too. Still, not sure with who. Monet friends-with-benefits anyone? XD
(stop me before I turn this thread NC-17).

[Sutekh]

Man, it's so hard to picture anyone who could date Warren. I understand there was a chemistry between him and Monet in X-Corp (I recognize the "enemies/bickering to lovers" trope when I see it), but I don't think they would work as a pair. Must be a strong-willed woman (of all his dates, I think Paige was the less "strong-willed", and Paiges isn't a delicate flower IHMO) but not self-centered (something I fear Monet is, but I don't know her enough to judge). Not necessarily a mom-type, but someone who isn't solitaire either. Hm.
(said this, depending on the author, any pair can work).

I do really miss Candy Southern for him. I read the name 'Candy' and that she's a flight attendant, and he's a super-powered billionaire playboy, and think 'what a social power imbalance' and then I see the actual writing of Candy (and that she's one of his childhood friends and has a monied family herself), and she totally takes no ****. She quips to him, sends Iceman scurrying with a gesture, and is talking like she's a pit boss to her crew to a group of Defenders folk like the Beast. In one of her first appearances, she wears a wig and Marvel Girl dress to trick villains like the Blob. She's absolutely down to be *bait* when there's super-villains involved!

She's absolutely one of the humans I would have put first in the queue for resurrection, along with Jean's family (and various other family members ganked over the years, Kitty's dad, Piotr's parents, etc.), Sharon Friedlander, and (since nobody really knew she wasn't still alive), Moira McTaggart. (Wouldn't that have freaked Xavier out, since he couldn't tell everyone why they shouldn't have resurrected Moira without telling him!)

A prominent, socially connected mutant / human pairing, just in the face of everyone who wants one side or the other to be all exclusionary and racist and supremacist, would be a fun place for Warren, and I miss that position for Warren, who has been more recently relegated to the ghetto of 'he can date anyone, *as long as she's a mutant!*'

[marhawkman]

I don't settle and it's still Warren for Betsy and Betsy for Warren, Betsy and Rachel will split up. The only real question is when, they're not forever.

I've been a Logan and Jean fan since day one over 30 years ago. I don't change my pairings much if at all.

I find it relevant that the way it's commonly phrased in German is to call a spouse "my man" or "my woman". Which is just as possessive in German as it is in English. Why? because it reflects a mutual bond of husband and wife.

[Hakka84]

A prominent, socially connected mutant / human pairing, just in the face of everyone who wants one side or the other to be all exclusionary and racist and supremacist, would be a fun place for Warren, and I miss that position for Warren, who has been more recently relegated to the ghetto of 'he can date anyone, *as long as she's a mutant!*'

This.

To be fair, in the last decade and more he wasn't shown to have a life outside of "mutant-only" places (he's not the only one) so he has literally no way to meet not-mutant prospective girlfriends. I think everyone on the board by now agrees that we would want human-allies to return in the X-Corner. Candy would be one of the best to start with, as she's yes a human but also involved with superheroing in her own way, like you reminded.