Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2024

[Selene]

^Upper left is from the Utopia era.

This, along with this week's X-Men Unlimited, has definitely made my day.

[Hakka84]

I'm still quite dumbfound for the cover shared by JB.
I wonder. Could it be a hint that we will see the return of Warren? The maze is a powerful symbol, especially applied to a character that has many facets such as Warren. It would make sense if the cover illustrated the journey Warren will have to take to return (especially if connected to the last, ominous words about him read in Dark X-Men #5)
No, wait, scratch that. Read the thread. Not sure what to make of that, now. Hm.

I've noticed in the past that you seemed to like Teen! Angel/ Laura. Can I ask why? There's nothing wrong if you like it, I'm just curious.

One thing that I always wished that had happened was that we had more pro Warren/Laura fans post here. I didn't care for it, but it would be nice to hear from people who did. I might come to understand it better than I did.

I've mentioned in the past that in my little area that the pairing was more popular among woman, especially teen agers and younger woman, than it was amongst male readers that I talked with about it.
So I could just be the wrong audience for it. It would be nice to hear from more females on this sit what they thought of it.
Once again, former member Izanami was great at explaining some of this.

Not sure If I already replied, so I'll do it.
First - take into consideration that I am no teen or young woman - I'm a 1984 child. So I can't talk for the younger audience.
Second - going to call timedisplaced Warren "T!W" from now on.

Ok. I knew very little about Laura, so I couldn't spot any OOCness from her (as Laura fans pointed out) during Laura's tenure with the timedisplaced!O5 and teen!Warren.
I looked at the pair only from T!W's side. Not the Warren we knew, but a Warren that was meant to be the Warren we saw in the Silver Age. I know that Laura acted like a Psylocke stand-in in the case, but I thought they worked together. T!W, being still his more "sunny" self, balanced the more gloomy and darkness that Laura brought within herself. She is more cautious during a fight, which could work in rein in T!W's more reckless attitude. Also, she could've been a good teacher for him - the O5 were very green as a team up then, so they should've lacked some training, while Laura is... well, a Wolverine. She had plenty of things to train about fights, IMHO.
I should re-read the comics, I might remember wrong, but I think I got this from their pairing. It was meant to be a teen fling, nothing too deep and definitely not meant to last forever (there was already an expire date because of T!W's status), and IMHO worked.
What didn't work, and soured everything, was how the authors gave up on pair, and how they allowed the Black Vortex to ruin everything. On contrary, the Black Vortex influence in T!W could've been a plot point to expand and have Laura help T!W cope with the darkness within, bettering both T!W and Laura (and her path to regain control on her life). Laura got to know Warren - the original - in one of his darkest era, and she could've helped T!W cope with both with the idea of a set destiny to avoid and a different kind of future T!W build for himself by keeping the Black Vortex changes.
Again, I speak from a Warren's fan point of view. I accept any criticism on the pair that might come from any Laura fan!

Said this. I pretend that the pair eventually cleared up things off panel and T!W left the present on good terms with Laura.
Anyway. Both Laura and Warren have memories of the time when they had that together. I think T!W genuinely felt affection for Laura, he didn't stick to her only for her body (same I think for Laura), and that affection should stay. With T!W live becoming a past, distant memory for present!Warren, I think that affection should stay, turned into a warm, brotherly affection that should push Warren to feel like a big, more experienced brother, who wants to genuinely be available for Laura should she ever need a shoulder.
It might not even make sense, but I think it would close the circle, and not erase the pair from canon and give a lasting, decent closure to what should've never happened.
(Laura, especially the Laura of the 2010s, deserved to be crushed in a bear hug to never let her go until she gives up and starts accepting kisses and affection, if you ask me )

Said this. I'm not a fan per se. But I'm not an hater either. She's like Paige - a relationship that worked on its own despite the initial "WTF?" but if it was magically erased from canon we wouldn't loose anything.
My favourite was T!W cameon in Laura's solo title. As timing went, I think they were meant to be already broken up (but I think in the solo they were portrayed as still together, or at least broken up but still friends). Anyway, he was supportive, came as soon as she needed help, and staid to help. It was a healthy portrait of them, I wished we could've gotten more of that portrayal of them.

[Hakka84]

Sorry, third post in a row, but
From the article announcing the title.

"When editor Annalise Bissa first called me, many of the X-Men were too busy or unavailable (see current storyline!). We joked about Angel, and how Warren, perhaps because of his background of extreme wealth and privilege, gave him a clueless arrogance that was not popular with X-Men fans. So, it became a fun challenge for me to take on. I had done a short Angel story with David Mazzucchelli in Al Milgrom's Marvel Fanfare long ago, and I loved how we focused on what an angel represents. In that story, his beautiful angelic look inspires a frightened lady to finally leave her house. That got me thinking of a game all the X-Men could play, a game that would dig deeper into a character's evolution and mythic symbolism in a fun way."

and

"The question for Angel is: can Warren see the truth of who he is in time to avoid a bad fate? We designed the story so the reader can hopefully play along, wondering how truthful they are about themselves."

I shouldn't, but this line - there's so much to hope for.

And seriously, the same author of Chiaroscuro?!



Edit: Thank you Selene. Now that you mention it, I wonder how I didn't remember!

[marhawkman]

Hey friends, check it out!



https://community.cbr.com/showthread...35#post6730435

A fight between Archangel and his glowing super form would be amusing.

[mattsarchamp]

Yes! It's awesome that Warren has a Giant Size X-Men for himself. A beacon of hope that he's back again.

[Til]

Hey friends, check it out!



https://community.cbr.com/showthread...35#post6730435

This seriously made my day. I am so excited that we're going to get an actual Angel comic before the era closes out. Like I mentioned in the other thread, I suspect this is going to take place before he died rather than resurrect him, but either way I'm happy we're getting it.

[Thievery]

I'm still quite dumbfound for the cover shared by JB.
I wonder. Could it be a hint that we will see the return of Warren? The maze is a powerful symbol, especially applied to a character that has many facets such as Warren. It would make sense if the cover illustrated the journey Warren will have to take to return (especially if connected to the last, ominous words about him read in Dark X-Men #5)
No, wait, scratch that. Read the thread. Not sure what to make of that, now. Hm.


Not sure If I already replied, so I'll do it.
First - take into consideration that I am no teen or young woman - I'm a 1984 child. So I can't talk for the younger audience.
Second - going to call timedisplaced Warren "T!W" from now on.

Ok. I knew very little about Laura, so I couldn't spot any OOCness from her (as Laura fans pointed out) during Laura's tenure with the timedisplaced!O5 and teen!Warren.
I looked at the pair only from T!W's side. Not the Warren we knew, but a Warren that was meant to be the Warren we saw in the Silver Age. I know that Laura acted like a Psylocke stand-in in the case, but I thought they worked together. T!W, being still his more "sunny" self, balanced the more gloomy and darkness that Laura brought within herself. She is more cautious during a fight, which could work in rein in T!W's more reckless attitude. Also, she could've been a good teacher for him - the O5 were very green as a team up then, so they should've lacked some training, while Laura is... well, a Wolverine. She had plenty of things to train about fights, IMHO.
I should re-read the comics, I might remember wrong, but I think I got this from their pairing. It was meant to be a teen fling, nothing too deep and definitely not meant to last forever (there was already an expire date because of T!W's status), and IMHO worked.
What didn't work, and soured everything, was how the authors gave up on pair, and how they allowed the Black Vortex to ruin everything. On contrary, the Black Vortex influence in T!W could've been a plot point to expand and have Laura help T!W cope with the darkness within, bettering both T!W and Laura (and her path to regain control on her life). Laura got to know Warren - the original - in one of his darkest era, and she could've helped T!W cope with both with the idea of a set destiny to avoid and a different kind of future T!W build for himself by keeping the Black Vortex changes.
Again, I speak from a Warren's fan point of view. I accept any criticism on the pair that might come from any Laura fan!

Said this. I pretend that the pair eventually cleared up things off panel and T!W left the present on good terms with Laura.
Anyway. Both Laura and Warren have memories of the time when they had that together. I think T!W genuinely felt affection for Laura, he didn't stick to her only for her body (same I think for Laura), and that affection should stay. With T!W live becoming a past, distant memory for present!Warren, I think that affection should stay, turned into a warm, brotherly affection that should push Warren to feel like a big, more experienced brother, who wants to genuinely be available for Laura should she ever need a shoulder.
It might not even make sense, but I think it would close the circle, and not erase the pair from canon and give a lasting, decent closure to what should've never happened.
(Laura, especially the Laura of the 2010s, deserved to be crushed in a bear hug to never let her go until she gives up and starts accepting kisses and affection, if you ask me )

Said this. I'm not a fan per se. But I'm not an hater either. She's like Paige - a relationship that worked on its own despite the initial "WTF?" but if it was magically erased from canon we wouldn't loose anything.
My favourite was T!W cameon in Laura's solo title. As timing went, I think they were meant to be already broken up (but I think in the solo they were portrayed as still together, or at least broken up but still friends). Anyway, he was supportive, came as soon as she needed help, and staid to help. It was a healthy portrait of them, I wished we could've gotten more of that portrayal of them.

Sorry for the late response, thanks for your answer.

Yeah, I honestly didn't think that the relationship was portrayed heathy most of the time either, and not in a good way. Sometimes you get good stories about an unhealthy relationship. That didn't happen with these two.

This seriously made my day. I am so excited that we're going to get an actual Angel comic before the era closes out. Like I mentioned in the other thread, I suspect this is going to take place before he died rather than resurrect him, but either way I'm happy we're getting it.

Yeah, I kind of think that this story will take place before Dark-X-Men. The final Krakoa issues are released after this one.

[EmeraldGladiator]

While happy for Warren to get some love, this issue shows a lack of planning at the end of the Krakoa era because if this was planned then what was Dark X-Men all about? Since his character didn't grow at all during the appearance what purpose did that appearance serve at all? Better for Warren to be off the canvas until this Giant Sized "IF" the Giant sized was planned. It's not like Dark X-Men was three years ago either, it just wrapped. Warren was used to spike interest sales on the initial cover solicit and never used in Dark X-Men except as cannon fodder and a poorly used killing plot device, not a good look for Foxe. It feels slapdash and can't compare to the mastery that Wells showed with similarly dark characters in Hellions.

[Thievery]

While happy for Warren to get some love, this issue shows a lack of planning at the end of the Krakoa era because if this was planned then what was Dark X-Men all about? Since his character didn't grow at all during the appearance what purpose did that appearance serve at all? Better for Warren to be off the canvas until this Giant Sized "IF" the Giant sized was planned. It's not like Dark X-Men was three years ago either, it just wrapped. Warren was used to spike interest sales on the initial cover solicit and never used in Dark X-Men except as cannon fodder and a poorly used killing plot device, not a good look for Foxe. It feels slapdash and can't compare to the mastery that Wells showed with similarly dark characters in Hellions.

I don't think that we can be entirely sure that it was Foxe's idea to use Angel that way for his story. Dark X-Men seemed like it was full of dropped plot points and possible re-writes. For example, Azazel and the debt that M-Plate owed him was supposed to be a big deal. Then that plot was dropped completely, and Azazel received a fairly embarrassing death, probably because Destiny and Mystique being revealed to be Nightcrawler's parents made Azazel irrelevant. Not that I would advocate for Azazel over Destiny/Mystique, though.

Dark X-Men didn't really accomplish much with any of it's cast outside of Maddie, Gambit, and Feint, in my opinion. So Archangel isn't really all that different from the rest of the cast in that regard.

I'm not even sure if Foxe actually wanted Angel in the comic to begin with. He didn't really come across as wanting to write Archangel. We do know that JDW doesn't like Angel. It may have been his idea to kill Archangel off that way. Or maybe it really was both chose to kill him off that way.
I guess that we never may know why Archangel was chosen for that comic.

I do think that it is pretty suspicious that Giant Size X-Men wasn't announced when all of the other X-Men comics shipping in May were. It feels like this comic was put together at the last minute. Either there was an entirely different comic planned, or this one saw some heavy rewrites.
I don't think that this story for Archangel was planned at all when Dark X-Men was being written. But I can't say that for 100% fact, obviously.

It doesn't really feel as if Marvel has much expectation for Giant Size X-Men. It's meant to be an anniversary issue, yet marvel just dumped the news of it's release and then hasn't really done much to talk about it.

[JB]

Stunning Phil Noto variant.

[Havok83]

Hey friends, check it out!



https://community.cbr.com/showthread...35#post6730435

WTH? Everyone else gets a beautiful costumes variant cover drawn by Dauterman and we get this

[Hakka84]

Stunning Phil Noto variant.

OMG?!

WTH? Everyone else gets a beautiful costumes variant cover drawn by Dauterman and we get this

He did get a Decades Variant, which is the closest it gets. I understand the disappointment, but at this point I take everything over the nothing that was the Krakoa era.

[Til]

I really, really like that Noto variant.

[Thievery]

Stunning Phil Noto variant.

I think that I would like to buy this cover. Looks better than the main cover, in my opinion.

[Jackraow21]

I like bringing back the OG Archangel color scheme.