Oh My Stars and Garters! Hank McCoy, the Beast Appreciation 2024!

[Mungho]

Oh! I just got a huge spoiler for Hank from Cable #2! It supports the theory of several people that Marvel is just going to ignore Percy's run! I'd post the panel, but just in case peopled don't want to be spoiled, how do I use the spoiler tags? I've already forgotten.

[DurararaFTW]

Oh! I just got a huge spoiler for Hank from Cable #2! It supports the theory of several people that Marvel is just going to ignore Percy's run! I'd post the panel, but just in case peopled don't want to be spoiled, how do I use the spoiler tags? I've already forgotten.

spoilers:

well not neccesarily ignore it's current events, but at least give Beast due credit for his curing of the Legacy Virus and role in handling the crisis. Can't hide images in these tags BTW.

end of spoilers

[Mungho]

spoilers:

well not neccesarily ignore it's current events, but at least give Beast due credit for his curing of the Legacy Virus and role in handling the crisis. Can't hide images in these tags BTW.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

You're right, it doesn't necessarily ignore current events, but the fact Hank is just there and is treated normally, and no one's speaking about war crimes, supports(though not proves) the theory of them ignoring or simply watering down Percy's run

end of spoilers

[KurtW95]

I'm still clinging to my theory that this hasn't been the real Hank(in a technical sense) since the beginning of Krakoa, and the revived one is the real one(his soul). There's also the theory that since it's a good bet the bad one is going to be killed by Logan to fit Percy's demented 'bookends' next month, the dying bad-Beast will transfer his memories to the revived-Hank. Which still isn't satisfying as he won't have lived those memories and will have to deal with all the memories of the bad stuff his other self has done.

I do like that idea. Honestly, I wish much of the canon after around Scott Lobdell would be wiped. Beast is just one of the characters who has been messed up. There are countless others and lots of the recent writers and editors don't understand the characters at all. It's insane. And very sad to me as someone who loves these characters. Cyclops turning into Magneto at his worst and so-called fans cheering it on was when I really started to pick up on the fact that we had a real problem. We need people who actually have read the classic comics and respect them to be in charge.

[Mungho]

I do like that idea. Honestly, I wish much of the canon after around Scott Lobdell would be wiped. Beast is just one of the characters who has been messed up. There are countless others and lots of the recent writers and editors don't understand the characters at all. It's insane. And very sad to me as someone who loves these characters. Cyclops turning into Magneto at his worst and so-called fans cheering it on was when I really started to pick up on the fact that we had a real problem. We need people who actually have read the classic comics and respect them to be in charge.

What storylines did Lobdell write? Forgive me, it's been awhile. I thought it was Bendis who accelerated the decline of Hank's character.

Anyway, I'm going to post the single panel from Cable. It's not like it really spoils anything, just it's odd how everything's so normal:



Cable even mentions Hank cured the legacy virus! No word of any warcrimes, everything seems normal with him there. I just wonder what it means(if anything).
If a mod wishes, I can remove it.

[KurtW95]

Lobdell was the last writer in a line of writers who understood the characters. He did a lot of stories in the 90s, including AoA.

[D.Z]

Retcons and personality changes are nothing new. Irl people can change their personalities.

[KurtW95]

I feel like it was Morrison who really screwed up Beast's characterization. He screwed up characterization with a lot of people. Cyclops and Jean too. He made Scott a cheater and Jean kind of just a mean person. But I saw a recent interview, where he was talking about Hank. And he was talking about how he loves that the character is bipolar and lives between being very cheerful and very dark and disturbed. And I'm like, you don't understand the character at all. Not to swipe people with mental illness, but Hank was never like that at all until Morrison started writing him and he became a dumb cat or dog when Sanders was drawing him. But as I was saying, it was the turn of many of the characters from heroic figures with flaws aiming to live up to a great ideal to scummy people giving up on the ideal. Which evolved to embracing the opposite of the ideal.

[Johnrevenge]

What storylines did Lobdell write? Forgive me, it's been awhile. I thought it was Bendis who accelerated the decline of Hank's character.

Anyway, I'm going to post the single panel from Cable. It's not like it really spoils anything, just it's odd how everything's so normal:



Cable even mentions Hank cured the legacy virus! No word of any warcrimes, everything seems normal with him there. I just wonder what it means(if anything).
If a mod wishes, I can remove it.

I still remember that in one of the latest issues of X-force, Percy basically implicated that the Legacy Virus was one of the many warcrimes of Beast, and that basically confirmed how much Percy hates Beast as he didn't bother to to do the research that confirmed that he was the one that found the cure.

Man I can't wait for Percy's reing of terror of X-force ends, not only for the complete character assasination of Beast (I always complain of how Wanda was treated by Bendis, but Percy's treatment of Beast has been 10 thousands times worst), but because this is the most incompetent version of X-force to ever exist.

[Mungho]

I feel like it was Morrison who really screwed up Beast's characterization. He screwed up characterization with a lot of people. Cyclops and Jean too. He made Scott a cheater and Jean kind of just a mean person. But I saw a recent interview, where he was talking about Hank. And he was talking about how he loves that the character is bipolar and lives between being very cheerful and very dark and disturbed. And I'm like, you don't understand the character at all. Not to swipe people with mental illness, but Hank was never like that at all until Morrison started writing him and he became a dumb cat or dog when Sanders was drawing him. But as I was saying, it was the turn of many of the characters from heroic figures with flaws aiming to live up to a great ideal to scummy people giving up on the ideal. Which evolved to embracing the opposite of the ideal.

From what I heard, it was then editor Quesada that mandated Hank be turned into a cat. Something about he was tired of artists drawing him differently each time and wanting a single 'look'. Claremont was not happy being forced to write that into his run. Morrison ran with this and introduced 'secondary mutations' and mad Hank a sad cat man. Interesting that making Hank a cat had the exact opposite effect of giving him a unified look.

And yes, Hank was never bi-polar until Morrison. He had insecurities, but as long as he received love and support from his friends and family he was good. With Morrison, everyone seemed to become...harder, meaner I guess. The stories seemed to start dwelling in misery. In the 00's, I was dealing with many awful things and I didn't need that in my life. I stopped reading the X-Books in 2010 for that reason.

For whatever you think of Morrison, he does want Hank to be a hero.

I still remember that in one of the latest issues of X-force, Percy basically implicated that the Legacy Virus was one of the many warcrimes of Beast, and that basically confirmed how much Percy hates Beast as he didn't bother to to do the research that confirmed that he was the one that found the cure.

Man I can't wait for Percy's reing of terror of X-force ends, not only for the complete character assasination of Beast (I always complain of how Wanda was treated by Bendis, but Percy's treatment of Beast has been 10 thousands times worst), but because this is the most incompetent version of X-force to ever exist.

Last year in that interview Percy said he's really enjoyed writing Hank the way he has. I think that about says it all. His run is almost over, folks. Just this month to get through, and I'm sure it will be unsatisfying.

I hope that panel from Cable previews an upcoming trend of ignoring Percy's runs.

[MechaJeanix]

Personally I loved Morrison's Beast. Yes, he was a little depressed and had some issues but he was still a great character. Morrison took up for Hank in that Marvel event where a host described Hank as a murderer if you all recall. It was the interview with Hickman. But I do think writers took inspiration from Morrison's take on Beast to make Beast even darker. I think Sublime Beast (and prob coupled with the previous Dark Beast) was enough inspiration to see a very dark and troubled Hank McCoy.

Cat Beast is a favorite of mine. During the Morrison run my top three favorites were Jean, Scott, and Hank.

I've always said one the major downfalls for the character was pitting him against the self-insert character (Scott) and they did it again with Logan. I wish Beast had been right, and Cyclops made more clearly wrong but they went with Beast being a major hypocrite.

Even in the last X-force we are still seeing Hank kill people. I don't know how they rectify this. He will always have this dark spot over him just like Bishop will forever have. If they kill this version of Hank and keep the older copy then Hank loses most of his history - not sure why they would want to bring him back to even pre X-factor. Maybe he will get his memories back from Quire like Wanda got from Jean and Rachel. Who knows.

Hank should be an intellectual but making him a mad scientist to me just seems lazy and uninspired. I know the kids think different - I think they love an evil Beast. They already saw him that way when he was beefing with Scott Summers.

I also hate using all of his past against him. What happened to nuance? Characters can make questionable choices without them going full dark and evil (see the Threnody situation). This is what happens when there is a lack of nuance and there is only "good" and "bad".

Here's hoping the last issue of X-force somehow makes sense of this mess and leaves the character to some type of earned redemption. I'm usually optimistic but I think this could still go wrong.

[SturdyMike89]

I feel like it was Morrison who really screwed up Beast's characterization. He screwed up characterization with a lot of people. Cyclops and Jean too. He made Scott a cheater and Jean kind of just a mean person. But I saw a recent interview, where he was talking about Hank. And he was talking about how he loves that the character is bipolar and lives between being very cheerful and very dark and disturbed. And I'm like, you don't understand the character at all. Not to swipe people with mental illness, but Hank was never like that at all until Morrison started writing him and he became a dumb cat or dog when Sanders was drawing him. But as I was saying, it was the turn of many of the characters from heroic figures with flaws aiming to live up to a great ideal to scummy people giving up on the ideal. Which evolved to embracing the opposite of the ideal.

Morrison's run could be considered the first Krakoa age. Characters didn't act like they had in the past. Radical reinventions of ideas (like secondary mutations) were tossed around without any previous setup. Whenever anyone complained about things not fitting with established canon especially Magneto, he could be dismissive. Some of this energy was due to Morrison not being completely comfortable at Marvel and due to the dark emotions he wrestled with post 9/11. Beast was a huge casualty of this. No way in hell damn Beak takes him out.

[MechaJeanix]

Poor Beast getting bashed by Beak was a great story. Cassandra was a menacing and threatening foe for the X-men. I loved the moments with Jean at Beast's bedside or the moment where she goes into Beak's mind to discover the truth. These moments bring me back.

Yes it sucked for Hank that he was brutally attacked but I live for those moments our fav characters go through hard times. I hate sounding like the old man in the room but I'd like to get back to the X-men getting through hard times but still remaining heroic. Seeing them murder humans do not do it for me. If it is in war it is easier to justify but Hank breaking into a military base and just blowing up random soldiers... yikes. Again how do we justify even liking this character after they've had him commit so many offenses.

[DurararaFTW]

Poor Beast getting bashed by Beak was a great story. Cassandra was a menacing and threatening foe for the X-men. I loved the moments with Jean at Beast's bedside or the moment where she goes into Beak's mind to discover the truth. These moments bring me back.

Yes it sucked for Hank that he was brutally attacked but I live for those moments our fav characters go through hard times. I hate sounding like the old man in the room but I'd like to get back to the X-men getting through hard times but still remaining heroic. Seeing them murder humans do not do it for me. If it is in war it is easier to justify but Hank breaking into a military base and just blowing up random soldiers... yikes. Again how do we justify even liking this character after they've had him commit so many offenses.

I mean, the comic does show Orchis patrolling the streets of Los Angeles with assault rifle like it's in a state of martial law, this comic does portray the situation as a state of war for whatever it's worth.

[Mungho]

I was going to post some data pages from Wolverine #27-28 to show the level of stupidity that is evidenced in Percy's run, but it just upsets me. This thread is about celebrating Hank, not wallowing in negativity, a bad habit of mine. Let's post some nice pictures:

This one is from Marvel's quarterly report. Hank, why don't you get off the machines and play?



And some cards: