Oh My Stars and Garters! Hank McCoy, the Beast Appreciation 2024!

[Mungho]

I'd be willing to bet that bad Hank got sucked into a blackhole and will be back eventually. One could hope that if that is the case, then whatever future storyline brings him back is only to merge his memories and experiences into current good Hank, then actually, on-panel, die.

It's staggering how much hate Percy has for Hank. Not counting the other clones (and if bad Hank is actually gone and not blackholed), he killed three "Prime" Beasts in his run including doing 616's first "real" death. Bleh.

But like others have said, many other big Marvel characters in their current mainline forms are various interpretations of clones and magic or science silliness anyway, so Hank just finally joins that club. And while he had many great moments post-Defenders, it's all simply not enough or other fans consider anything post-Threnody or even post-O5 time travel "tainted" so as much as I wouldn't wanna lose the nice moments, I'm afraid Marvel has simply gone on long enough in the past two decades not prioritizing giving Hank actual good, non-controversial, unequivocally heroic moments in most fans' eyes that a big reset like this is unfortunately necessary when I see the vitriol online.

You're right about the vitriol. About a year-and-a-half-ago when I returned to the X-Books, read X-Force, and saw what Percy was doing to Hank, I went on the X-Men reddit, and this was probably the worst one (though there were many similar sentiments):

"I used to love Beast, but now I can't wait for this sack-of-**** to be permanently killed off so I NEVER have to see him again!"

How could someone have this much hate for a fictional character? Arguing against this sentiment only got me downvoted and insulted, to where I don't go there anymore. Twitter was much the same, one person happily posting art they made of Hank beheaded. And Marvel seemed perfectly okay with this.

I'd been hoping for some explanation for evil-Beast's behavior, but there was none. I was hoping that evil-Beast was soulless(having lost his soul prior to Krakoa), and that the revived Beast had somehow gotten the real one's soul back, but evil-Beast showed he still cared for Wonder-man and had feelings, which throws my 'soulless' theory out the window.

You're right about other Marvel characters having weird things about them(clones, magic, etc.). It's just that, it was incredibly unfair to a character like him that this was done to him. Of course he's not real and that there are different interpretations of him each writer will have...sigh I don't even know where I'm going with this.

I found some more pictures. I'll post them soon, then I'm going to take a break from the forums again. I've gotten too emotionally involved with this and that's not good.

[Mungho]

Some pics of Hank from the Defender's era:

[Walking Wake]

Great panels as always Mungho! It really does make one realize that Hank being stuck only as the X-Men's science go-to guy has been the least interesting, but seemingly only consistent aspect explored for him in the last 30+ years and led to where we are. Yes he's smart, but there's way more to him! People say that his character needs time away from the X-Men and mutants in general to heal (and I actually agree with that) but that the bigger issue is that writers often only stick with the scientist aspect of him when he's in mutant world.

I found some more pictures. I'll post them soon, then I'm going to take a break from the forums again. I've gotten too emotionally involved with this and that's not good.

Yeah, it's probably for the best to take a few months off for a mental break until the relaunch. I haven't read too much of Jed's stuff but my Iron Man friend likes how he writes Tony apparently and he's telling me Hank is in good hands. I hope he's right!

[Mungho]

Great panels as always Mungho! It really does make one realize that Hank being stuck only as the X-Men's science go-to guy has been the least interesting, but seemingly only consistent aspect explored for him in the last 30+ years and led to where we are. Yes he's smart, but there's way more to him! People say that his character needs time away from the X-Men and mutants in general to heal (and I actually agree with that) but that the bigger issue is that writers often only stick with the scientist aspect of him when he's in mutant world.



Yeah, it's probably for the best to take a few months off for a mental break until the relaunch. I haven't read too much of Jed's stuff but my Iron Man friend likes how he writes Tony apparently and he's telling me Hank is in good hands. I hope he's right!

Thank you! Though some credit goes to a dear friend who finds some of these. I really agree Hank needs other aspects of him explored, and that he needs a break away from the X-Men.

Let's see...I should have paired this image with the one up above. Bobby pretends to be Hank's boyfriend(foreshadowing for Bobby?):




I've long loved how Hank fights like, well, a Beast:



And, Hank from the new X-Men 97 show. I've seen this image on a t-shirt and I want one:

[Chris0013]

Terrible ending to a terrible character arc. In universe the authorities would look at this as nothing more than a serial criminal getting amnesia. Hank McCoy committed horrific crimes and Hank McCoy needs to be held accountable. It does not matter that he has no memories of the last few years.

This is jut par for the course with modern writers. Drastically alter a character to suit their needs and at the end...abracapocus...the character is back to normal.

Like I said before...I want human looking Hank back...and to have a final showdown with Bad Beast (maybe messed with by Sinister's genetic manipulation) and Good, Human-looking Beast (cloned from some old pre-Brand Employment DNA) in a major public arena where the world can see it all go down so everyone sees a difference between the two and Hank can be seen as a hero.

[DurararaFTW]

Terrible ending to a terrible character arc. In universe the authorities would look at this as nothing more than a serial criminal getting amnesia. Hank McCoy committed horrific crimes and Hank McCoy needs to be held accountable. It does not matter that he has no memories of the last few years.

This is jut par for the course with modern writers. Drastically alter a character to suit their needs and at the end...abracapocus...the character is back to normal.

Like I said before...I want human looking Hank back...and to have a final showdown with Bad Beast (maybe messed with by Sinister's genetic manipulation) and Good, Human-looking Beast (cloned from some old pre-Brand Employment DNA) in a major public arena where the world can see it all go down so everyone sees a difference between the two and Hank can be seen as a hero.

If the in universe authorities wouldn't care between the actions of two distinct clones in this instance, in a world with several concurrent distinct clones with their own legal identities running around, I'm not sure what having him look human would accomplish.

[Mungho]

I thought I'd post the panels from X-Force #50 so you all could see how this ended. Not with a bang, like Percy claimed, but with a whimper:

[Mungho]

And a bonus picture of good-Hank telling bad-Hank he's wrong:

[Chris0013]

If the in universe authorities wouldn't care between the actions of two distinct clones in this instance, in a world with several concurrent distinct clones with their own legal identities running around, I'm not sure what having him look human would accomplish.

The mutants themselves really see no distinction between the original and the Clone...it is not like Scott Summers is now Scott Summers 9 because of all the time he was killed and brought back. He is just considered the same guy...and if the mutant feel that way why shouldn't everyone else. Basically Good Beast would be held accountable for Bad Beast's crimes.

[DurararaFTW]

The mutants themselves really see no distinction between the original and the Clone...it is not like Scott Summers is now Scott Summers 9 because of all the time he was killed and brought back. He is just considered the same guy...and if the mutant feel that way why shouldn't everyone else. Basically Good Beast would be held accountable for Bad Beast's crimes.

The mutants see distinction between Madelyne Pryor and Jean Grey, despite at times sharing memories, conciousness and even body for a time. They see Stryfe and Cable as distinct. Even Old Cable and Young Cable, they see Apocalypse's clone Evan distinct from Apocalypse himself, they see Mr Sinister as distinct from Dr Stasis and Orbis Stellaris despite all being clones of Nathaniel Essex sharing the identical memories of their life prior to the cloning. They see Wolverine as distinct from the clones that Beast made of him, of his clone Laura, of the clone Laura they made while Laura was still alive the Vault and Laura's clone Gabby. Magneto and Joseph are also deemed seperate beings.

[Hypestyle]

Terrible ending to a terrible character arc. In universe the authorities would look at this as nothing more than a serial criminal getting amnesia. Hank McCoy committed horrific crimes and Hank McCoy needs to be held accountable. It does not matter that he has no memories of the last few years.

This is jut par for the course with modern writers. Drastically alter a character to suit their needs and at the end...abracapocus...the character is back to normal.

Like I said before...I want human looking Hank back...and to have a final showdown with Bad Beast (maybe messed with by Sinister's genetic manipulation) and Good, Human-looking Beast (cloned from some old pre-Brand Employment DNA) in a major public arena where the world can see it all go down so everyone sees a difference between the two and Hank can be seen as a hero.

It would be interesting for the next X-Men series to have human-image Hank with his enhanced levels of strength and agility.

I also think that Dark Beast's head still existing is a problem that needs to be solved. multiple clones running around (or, uh floating around) annoy me.

[MechaJeanix]

The mutants see distinction between Madelyne Pryor and Jean Grey, despite at times sharing memories, conciousness and even body for a time. They see Stryfe and Cable as distinct. Even Old Cable and Young Cable, they see Apocalypse's clone Evan distinct from Apocalypse himself, they see Mr Sinister as distinct from Dr Stasis and Orbis Stellaris despite all being clones of Nathaniel Essex sharing the identical memories of their life prior to the cloning. They see Wolverine as distinct from the clones that Beast made of him, of his clone Laura, of the clone Laura they made while Laura was still alive the Vault and Laura's clone Gabby. Magneto and Joseph are also deemed seperate beings.

Reading over this and I'm like maybe the Krakoan era was a mistake (I joke because I loved so much about it, and even the resurrection protocols I adored for giving us so many characters back, but yeah some of it became a bit of a convoluted mess).

No wonder we have a new era starting soon.

[Chris0013]

The mutants see distinction between Madelyne Pryor and Jean Grey, despite at times sharing memories, conciousness and even body for a time. They see Stryfe and Cable as distinct. Even Old Cable and Young Cable, they see Apocalypse's clone Evan distinct from Apocalypse himself, they see Mr Sinister as distinct from Dr Stasis and Orbis Stellaris despite all being clones of Nathaniel Essex sharing the identical memories of their life prior to the cloning. They see Wolverine as distinct from the clones that Beast made of him, of his clone Laura, of the clone Laura they made while Laura was still alive the Vault and Laura's clone Gabby. Magneto and Joseph are also deemed seperate beings.

Yes...The ones you mention are all considered individuals because they have had different lives and experiences...but the Cyclops (and Jean and Wolverine and many others) who all have died and been resurrected since Krakoa are considered the same ones that existed before Krakoa.

The surviving Beast is the same guy who just does not have those experiences and memories of the one who went to Krakoa.

[Havok83]

Yes...The ones you mention are all considered individuals because they have had different lives and experiences...but the Cyclops (and Jean and Wolverine and many others) who all have died and been resurrected since Krakoa are considered the same ones that existed before Krakoa.

The surviving Beast is the same guy who just does not have those experiences and memories of the one who went to Krakoa.

which should essentially make him a different character. There's a good almost 40 years worth of character development that he simply does not have. He has no relationship with any of the characters created after 1985. If you think about it, the pool of X characters that he actually knows is rather small in comparison to how expansive the line has become since middway in Claremont's run. For example, someone like Cecelia Reyes does not know this Beast and vice versa. Heck even he and Emma should be strangers to each other. I dont really think Marvel/Percy really thought of the ramifications of how they left this story arc

[DurararaFTW]

Yes...The ones you mention are all considered individuals because they have had different lives and experiences...but the Cyclops (and Jean and Wolverine and many others) who all have died and been resurrected since Krakoa are considered the same ones that existed before Krakoa.

The surviving Beast is the same guy who just does not have those experiences and memories of the one who went to Krakoa.

The Wolverines Beast resurrected all have the same memories and experiences of the same life right up till Beasts defection from Krakoa and taking the Cerebro Sword with him. They were just made deficient. Wolverine's healing factor then healed them, at which the only difference between the Wolverine clones disappeared. Wolverine killed them all anyway. Nathaniel Essex lived a full adult life prior to creating three clones in his wake, each started off the with same memories and experiences. As I already mentioned Madelyne Pryor does have Jean Greys memories and experiences and vice versa up till a certain point, all she lacks were the memories of Jean Grey from the 90s onwards, which included raising Nathan in the future. Jean has shared those with Madelyne now as well. Obviously Old Cable has all of Young Cables memories and experiences, it's the same life.

This Defenders Beast actually has less in common with the Beast whose crimes you feel he should held accountable for then the current Madelyne Pryor has with Jean Grey, their memories and experiences diverge quite a bit earlier.

Nate Grey was born after Legion killed Xavier starting AoA timeline's divergence from 616. Beast however was already born. Dark Beast started off with the same life as any 616 incarnation of Beast.

Dark Beast diverges at age 6 or so. Defenders Beast diverges at age 20 or so from the very same life. Why would one be a distinct person and the other not?