Raven Appreciation 2024

[jmc247]

I like how the hair doesn't look red there.

I thought the New 52 era was playing around with some new concepts for once with with Raven and Trigon. Not that it didn’t mess up alot of ways in its storytelling, but it didn’t feel like a Terror of Trigon rehash, though, the storyline was aborted mid story.

The question for Raven going forward is how much new ground she can break with her storytelling and if they can move her relationship with dad into something that doesn’t feel like a rerun story.

[Dioman-san]

So it's not New than Raven have a evil self of herself in this gems ?

I am little confuse, because i dont recall recent comics who talk about this.

[jmc247]

So it's not New than Raven have a evil self of herself in this gems ?

I am little confuse, because i dont recall recent comics who talk about this.

Raven’s demonic essence she used to call her Soul Self typically appeared as a demon bird behind her or around her.



It has become fully flesh at times.



But, the connection to it and Raven’s gem is new. That was an idea that Teen Titans Go popularized. The animated movies followed the classic demon bird motif.

[Digifiend]

Whelp. spoilers:

Doctor Hate's helmet was destroyed by Wally, and when Raven tried to recapture her, it ended up the other way around. Dark Raven is impersonating the real one who's trapped in the gem!

end of spoilers

[Hulkout42]

Whelp. spoilers:

Doctor Hate's helmet was destroyed by Wally, and when Raven tried to recapture her, it ended up the other way around. Dark Raven is impersonating the real one who's trapped in the gem!

end of spoilers

They did this years ago didn't they? During Dick's and Kori's wedding they had Evil Raven...are Dick and Barbara getting hitched and she will do a sequel? Is that why they did this to her? Also is this going to be a ploy to break her and Gar up?

[jmc247]

They did this years ago didn't they? During Dick's and Kori's wedding they had Evil Raven...are Dick and Barbara getting hitched and she will do a sequel? Is that why they did this to her? Also is this going to be a ploy to break her and Gar up?

Where Raven’s Soul-Self was completely detached from her flesh? Yes.

[Devaishwarya]

Yes, it was done before but...If I can read Claremont for 16 years and still appreciate his many times regurgitated plots and tropes...I can see what Taylor brings to the table with his version of Raven's Demon Self.

[jmc247]

There is a ton of annoyance and anger across social media at this storyline. The overwhelming majority seem to believe what is coming will just another Terror of Trigon rehash. Raven's demon will mess with her friends. Get Trigon to mess with her friends and Earth. Her good side will prevail, and she will be merged again. Trigon will be defeated.

First there are some cores to the characters that go back to the time they were created. Namely Raven had something horrible inside her she didn't understand and was terrified of. Meanwhile, Trigon wanted a buddy to rule the Cosmos with and an heir.



Terror of Trigon was the culmination point of those two separate story arcs coming together. The actual story was much more Greek family tragedy then great super heroic tale.



The 2003 animated series was much more along the lines of the great empowerment superhero story. But, it was bad for Trigon. Really bad. The biggest thing that set him apart from a bazillion other similar totally forgettable characters in fiction was gone. The comics often tried to adapt the '03 stuff between Raven and Trigon. But, it was a flop. There was much more interest in their relationship in the Injustice comics or the animated films then from the attempts to copy the animated series in any number of comics.

All I will say is there are a number of paths the current story can go that actually move the characters forward.

[Agent Z]

There is a ton of annoyance and anger across social media at this storyline. The overwhelming majority seem to believe what is coming will just another Terror of Trigon rehash. Raven's demon will mess with her friends. Get Trigon to mess with her friends and Earth. Her good side will prevail, and she will be merged again. Trigon will be defeated.

First there are some cores to the characters that go back to the time they were created. Namely Raven had something horrible inside her she didn't understand and was terrified of. Meanwhile, Trigon wanted a buddy to rule the Cosmos with and an heir.



Terror of Trigon was the culmination point of those two separate story arcs coming together. The actual story was much more Greek family tragedy then great super heroic tale.



The 2003 animated series was much more along the lines of the great empowerment superhero story. But, it was bad for Trigon. Really bad. The biggest thing that set him apart from a bazillion other similar totally forgettable characters in fiction was gone. The comics often tried to adapt the '03 stuff between Raven and Trigon. But, it was a flop. There was much more interest in their relationship in the Injustice comics or the animated films then from the attempts to copy the animated series in any number of comics.

All I will say is there are a number of paths the current story can go that actually move the characters forward.

It's still yet another story about evil Raven. We've had more than enough of those over the decades.

Trigon wasn't even unique within the DC universe. Wolfman and Perez basically copied Darkseid and Orion's dynamic.

[jmc247]

It's still yet another story about evil Raven. We've had more than enough of those over the decades.

Trigon wasn't even unique within the DC universe. Wolfman and Perez basically copied Darkseid and Orion's dynamic.

Raven's story has had a few problems since the days of Wolfman. She struggles with her not so pretty side, she struggles with Trigon, she wins and can feel emotions... then Wolfman and every other writer really doesn't know where to take her story and the audience did get bored of generic superhero Raven so she went bad over and over again in the 90s. Then a lot of recycling old storyline themes for the next two decades.



My point with Raven and Trigon is they need a new dynamic. Bringing up Darkseid was good because the animated films actually managed to start to tread new ground in using him to shift their dynamic beyond the same old rehashed stories.

I think Raven could use a nemesis that isn't herself or her father. If this storyline leads to an actual paradigm shift something real will have been accomplished. If it's the same old same old, it will not have been worth it.

Raven isn't alone in having the problem that once her story gets passed fighting with her own issues and dad its practically over and has to be reset by writers. A ton of other characters have that problem including Daiman Wayne.

Once he is beyond his tiny tyrant stage and rehashed dad/mom conflict writers scratch their heads and then reset his story.



The question then becomes can the current Titans story arc blaze new ground or not with Raven. I think it can, I don’t know if it will.

[jmc247]

Issue #9 art preview

This artist is quite good and responsive to issues. Anyway. My point for the new storyline and Raven’s big problem is all her meaty storytelling and family issues comes from metaphors for teenage issues.

Once she was aged above her teens into the young adult stage Wolfman ran out of ideas which is why in the end you had a few decades of recycling the same stories with Raven and her angry red side as well as her father. It’s also why they kept deaging her. This represents a chance for the current story arc to break from that though obviously most on social media right now don’t believe it will.

[wonder39]

What's wrong with the name Rae? It's actually a pretty clever nickname as it can be short for both Raven and her secret identity Rachel Roth.

Also, plot twist...
spoilers:

There's two Ravens. Her evil side is Doctor Hate, so that forehead gem is just a useless trinket now. Though if Raven is pure good now, shouldn't she be White Raven?

end of spoilers

Rae is horrible, and harkens back to the toon, which has had too much influence over the character. Her name is Raven. None 😔 d this Rac he ael Roth nonsense...lol

[wonder39]

Raven’s demonic essence she used to call her Soul Self typically appeared as a demon bird behind her or around her.



It has become fully flesh at times.



But, the connection to it and Raven’s gem is new. That was an idea that Teen Titans Go popularized. The animated movies followed the classic demon bird motif.

Raven's demonic side was not her soul self. Her soul self was her soul, which is why she couldn't be apart from it for very long . She was tainted by Trigon' s evil since he was her father. Once Raven was freed from his evil and was "white" RAven she still had her soul self. It had just been purged of his evil.

[jmc247]

Raven's demonic side was not her soul self. Her soul self was her soul, which is why she couldn't be apart from it for very long . She was tainted by Trigon' s evil since he was her father. Once Raven was freed from his evil and was "white" RAven she still had her soul self. It had just been purged of his evil.

Her Soul Self at times under Wolfman’s pen talked to her.



Perhaps looking back on that era you are talking about can help one determine where Wolfman was going with it. Yes, Raven said she was free of her father’s influence in her white form.

Obviously, Raven was learning about emotions and quickly became very envious of Kory.

[jmc247]

My sense is that even though Raven wanted him bad her humanity was eventually willing to kinda of accept it wasn’t right.

Part of her was still jealous though and her demon delighted in making them both suffer.



It was claiming to be her Soul Self.