Raven Appreciation 2024

[Agent Z]

Raven's story has had a few problems since the days of Wolfman. She struggles with her not so pretty side, she struggles with Trigon, she wins and can feel emotions... then Wolfman and every other writer really doesn't know where to take her story and the audience did get bored of generic superhero Raven so she went bad over and over again in the 90s. Then a lot of recycling old storyline themes for the next two decades.



My point with Raven and Trigon is they need a new dynamic. Bringing up Darkseid was good because the animated films actually managed to start to tread new ground in using him to shift their dynamic beyond the same old rehashed stories.

I think Raven could use a nemesis that isn't herself or her father. If this storyline leads to an actual paradigm shift something real will have been accomplished. If it's the same old same old, it will not have been worth it.

Raven isn't alone in having the problem that once her story gets passed fighting with her own issues and dad its practically over and has to be reset by writers. A ton of other characters have that problem including Daiman Wayne.

Once he is beyond his tiny tyrant stage and rehashed dad/mom conflict writers scratch their heads and then reset his story.



The question then becomes can the current Titans story arc blaze new ground or not with Raven. I think it can, I don’t know if it will.

New ground would be doing anything but another Raven goes evil story. Having her be a generic superhero (which I have never seen anyone complain about) would be a fresh idea at this point.

[Agent Z]

Rae is horrible, and harkens back to the toon, which has had too much influence over the character. Her name is Raven. None 😔 d this Rac he ael Roth nonsense...lol

I wish they took more influence from the cartoon. At least it gave Raven other stories besides dealing with her evil side or being controlled by Trigon.

[jmc247]

I wish they took more influence from the cartoon. At least it gave Raven other stories besides dealing with her evil side or being controlled by Trigon.

If the goal of this storyline is another Terror of Trigon rehash I would agree completely.

What I am beating around the bush about is that I don’t think that is the end goal of this story arc. I think it’s more of a learning to accept all of herself and her background arc. The route to get there looks a lot like a Terror of Trigon rehash with some Judas Contract mixed in.

[wonder39]

Her Soul Self at times under Wolfman’s pen talked to her.



Perhaps looking back on that era you are talking about can help one determine where Wolfman was going with it. Yes, Raven said she was free of her father’s influence in her white form.

Obviously, Raven was learning about emotions and quickly became very envious of Kory.

I'm not counting either horrible Raven run that Marv did. She wasn't the same character.

I don't think we can really talk about her as one continuous, harmonious character, as she's not. It would make more sense to differentiate the various versions, as their histories, power sets, etc are all very different.

[jmc247]

I'm not counting either horrible Raven run that Marv did. She wasn't the same character.

I don't think we can really talk about her as one continuous, harmonious character, as she's not. It would make more sense to differentiate the various versions, as their histories, power sets, etc are all very different.

What I thought he was going for was a Raven incompetent at human interaction plot line with Trigon and Arella as her only example of a relationship growing up among monks and of course her demon operating on the want, take, have version of relationships.



I agree the story arc didn't work and it is a large part of the failure of Raven’s character over the past few decades to move beyond her teenage years issues successfully into 20 something issues. Raven is far from the only character to suffer from this problem.

I think the current arc is attempting to update Raven’s character and relationships including with Trigon into something that works for a 20 something Raven. If it works or not remains to be seen, but it’s integrating demon lore and concepts from TTG and the animated films so who knows. I agree there had been some variability over time with the demon lore for Raven.

Ultimately updating her core relationships is part of what the character needs to break the cycle.



Trigon’s motivation needs to be updated as well. Control daughter worked for a teenage years Raven, but stopped working post emancipation years and led to the character to be in a hole recycling weaker versions of the same story.

[Veni]

[jmc247]

Some thoughts about New 52. There were some evolutionary features to Trigon and Raven’s characters I felt were worthwhile.

For Trigon it was his embrace of both halves of Raven by going the route of him wanting her to be greater then himself. Him just being interested in red half leads to one storyline and one story outcome. Not much was done with it though.



For Raven it was her human sides willingness to work with her darker half of herself for a positive benefit which ended pretty abruptly.

Beyond that I am still of the position Trigon works best as more a mix of Eldritch Horror, Galactus like entity from another universe, and characer some demonic themes from folklore and religion attached and less straight Christian based devil knock off character. There are many Satan knock off characters in fiction. A legion as it were.

Underlying all the issues with Raven is a need to shake up her story for the same old storytelling. I am less critical then many of the recycling of her warring with her demon plot line namely because I see one or two avenues for them to move the characters story forward as well as Trigon’s in a larger sense.

Though it might not be taken up in which case it’s just another repetition of the same story Raven has been trapped in since the free and learning to feel stuff stopped selling… which didn’t take long.

[Veni]

[jmc247]

Link

Could be Damian led like the animated movies. I really felt the animated movies did a great job with both his and Raven’s characters.

[jmc247]

Link

[jmc247]

Happy Birthday to Tara Strong.

[KoriandrJean]

Some thoughts about New 52. There were some evolutionary features to Trigon and Raven’s characters I felt were worthwhile.

For Trigon it was his embrace of both halves of Raven by going the route of him wanting her to be greater then himself. Him just being interested in red half leads to one storyline and one story outcome. Not much was done with it though.



For Raven it was her human sides willingness to work with her darker half of herself for a positive benefit which ended pretty abruptly.

Beyond that I am still of the position Trigon works best as more a mix of Eldritch Horror, Galactus like entity from another universe, and characer some demonic themes from folklore and religion attached and less straight Christian based devil knock off character. There are many Satan knock off characters in fiction. A legion as it were.

Underlying all the issues with Raven is a need to shake up her story for the same old storytelling. I am less critical then many of the recycling of her warring with her demon plot line namely because I see one or two avenues for them to move the characters story forward as well as Trigon’s in a larger sense.

Though it might not be taken up in which case it’s just another repetition of the same story Raven has been trapped in since the free and learning to feel stuff stopped selling… which didn’t take long.

What issue and book was this page, and story, from, please?

[jmc247]

What issue and book was this page, and story, from, please?

Teen Titans #20 (2011-2014)

It’s the background issue for New 52 Raven.

[KoriandrJean]

Teen Titans #20 (2011-2014)

It’s the background issue for New 52 Raven.

Ok, thanks!

[jmc247]

Link