Cyclops/Scott Summers Appreciation 2024

[Havok83]

The problem is Scott was villanized for being possessed by a cosmic entity by his so called friends. They didn't have a problem with it when Jean was the one who became Dark Phoenix but suddenly Storm of all people is like no Cyke was a mutant Hitler or something. It's like the Apocalypse Now movie. Everyone's doing war crimes and **** but Colonel Kurtz is called evil because he chops ups a few heads lol.

I dont think its quite the same thing. Jean died literally a day after she went Dark Phoenix. Its hard to villianize and come down on the bed when she ultimately paid for her sins before anyone could even fully process what happened. The stakes were different in AvX vs DPS. What Jean did in DPS happened in space and quite foreign and abstract to them. AvX was far more personal bc of the deciMation. and the state that the world was in. Each of the P5 were losing it and ended up doing awful things including killing Xavier, so yeah people were going to be more personally affected in a way they wouldnt have been in DPS.

When they did think that Dark Phoenix was back thanks to Mastermind in UXM 175, they were all ready to take her out and werent coming at "Jean" as a beloved friend, but the threat that she was percieved as. Wolverine stabbed Rachel and nearly killed her when he thought she ran the risk of becoming Dark Phoenix as well

The problem with Jott is that Morrison nuked it into oblivion and Emma proved herself to be a great love interest for Scott if not better than Jean, and while she lacked the connections to Summers-Grey lore, she loved Scott perhaps more than anyone else ever did.

Emma only worked for a very specific version of Scott. The man he became during the deciMation benefited from having someone with a questionable moral compass by his side. I think if we look at him throughout ost of his history, they would be such a mismatch otherwise. When he got what he needed, he discarded her and hasnt looked back. She kinda deserves better and I dont think ultimately Scott was every fitting. Im actually enjoying her and Iron Man and feel he is better suited for Emma

From what I hear Jean suffers from the fact since her resurrection she has not really had much to do in a major capacity especially on her own barring Tom Taylor's short-lived X-Men Red series.

So compared to the very fully realized stories and development Emma got over the years, Jean is shafted by not being enough opportunities to really be a star which hopefully the upcoming Phoenix ongoing changes that.

When did Scott and Jean get together again? Wasn't she dating someone else after her recent rez for a bit?

They reunited in UXM 22 and no Jean was single after coming back. She was romantically linked to Bishop in Age of X-Man but that was an alternate reality they were whisked to with their minds messed with

[Darth_Caedus]

I dont think its quite the same thing. Jean died literally a day after she went Dark Phoenix. Its hard to villianize and come down on the bed when she ultimately paid for her sins before anyone could even fully process what happened. The stakes were different in AvX vs DPS. What Jean did in DPS happened in space and quite foreign and abstract to them. AvX was far more personal bc of the deciMation. and the state that the world was in. Each of the P5 were losing it and ended up doing awful things including killing Xavier, so yeah people were going to be more personally affected in a way they wouldnt have been in DPS.

When they did think that Dark Phoenix was back thanks to Mastermind in UXM 175, they were all ready to take her out and werent coming at "Jean" as a beloved friend, but the threat that she was percieved as. Wolverine stabbed Rachel and nearly killed her when he thought she ran the risk of becoming Dark Phoenix as well

And didn't Scott pay for his so called crimes? He was jailed, lost most of his allies and friends, and lost his reputation as a superhero. He sacrificed everything he had to save their species. I agree that the Phoenix force had corrupted them but he shouldn't have been treated like a war criminal for things he committed while under the influence of a cosmic turkey! Everyone abandoned him instead of just being there for him. Oh and killing Charles was not a bad thing, that man had been a scourge in Scott's life for far too long.

[Havok83]

And didn't Scott pay for his so called crimes? He was jailed, lost most of his allies and friends, and lost his reputation as a superhero. He sacrificed everything he had to save their species. I agree that the Phoenix force had corrupted them but he shouldn't have been treated like a war criminal for things he committed while under the influence of a cosmic turkey! Everyone abandoned him instead of just being there for him. Oh and killing Charles was not a bad thing, that man had been a scourge in Scott's life for far too long.

Oh I defintiely think he should have gotten the benefit of the doubt. I just dont think its fair to compare his situation with jean bc thats ignoring the personal context that would impact the character's state of minds. Also killing Xavier was a big deal. To many characters, it doesnt matter if he had the PF; he still did it. To me thats like if someone drives drunk and kills someone. The victim's family dont care if it was an accident. Their loved one is still dead and when you have heightened emotions about such a personal loss, its going to impact how you view the person that killed said loved one, no matter how rational or irrational that may be

[Darth_Caedus]

AvX was the Injustice of the Marvel universe. Everyone was acting so OOC that you end up sympathizing with the supposed Villains

[The92Ghost]

Its a damn shame how much Storm's been shafted. So many significant and great characters, just given the short end of the stick for years and years. Tragic, TRAGIC! At least Storm's made a huge comeback sense, things are going good for the elemental Goddess.

About 97 indeed, here here, its a damn good time watching the show, lots of great moments all around. Really looking forward to how Cyclops and Storm is going to handle things in the upcoming episodes.

Our guys are going to war.

They definitely are, and having Storm and Cyclops as leaders, things are about to shift dramatically and we will still see them die, that's already semi-confirmed.

Villainous path? You mean being rightclops? Demayo had said he didn't like that version of the character so we have to see how that plays out in the show. Either way I just can't see a Scott in his 90s suit without his most trusted allies such as Emma and Yana become that version of the character yet. Tbh I don't trust anyone when it comes to Scott anymore.

Hm, I am quite certain that we will see them in Season 2, by the way they are going.

And yes, if some call that timeframe righteous. I am not here to fight or argue. But I know that Cyclops has that arc in comics where the X-Men team is split and one of the halves is Cyclops, Utopia I believe it is called. I vaguely remember reading a few chapters.

And didn't Scott pay for his so called crimes? He was jailed, lost most of his allies and friends, and lost his reputation as a superhero. He sacrificed everything he had to save their species. I agree that the Phoenix force had corrupted them but he shouldn't have been treated like a war criminal for things he committed while under the influence of a cosmic turkey! Everyone abandoned him instead of just being there for him. Oh and killing Charles was not a bad thing, that man had been a scourge in Scott's life for far too long.

Look it that way, if someone does something in the RL world, they are judged by their actions. This is no different, Scott was judged by his actions and they didn't consider that he was possessed by DF.

[xiyon]

Before the Cosmic Fire Turkey debates get any weirder, I think it's also important to highlight the PF's narrative evolution:

During DPS, Jean only went Dark Phoenix because of the Hellfire Club corrupting her.

Then Phoenix Endsong/Warsong (and even Morrison's Here Comes Tomorrow) happens, where Jean and the PF essentially becomes one after her death, which feeds into why Cyke had a lot of faith in the PF being primarily a source of good (for the mutants) and, conversely, Emma's fear of it (and Hope).

Then AvX happens, where PF is essentially a drug that causes its hosts to go insane (as described by the AvX writers during their interviews), with Cyke holding out as long as he could despite multiple provocations and betrayals.

As for what the PF is now... eh... I don't pay it much heed anymore, given how the Avengers office stole one of the few (only?) cosmic entities associated with the X-Men......

But regardless, the context of Dark Phoenix Jean and Dark Phoenix Clops is different.

[Darth_Caedus]

It's a fictional story. If Logan was the one doing it he would've gotten a free pass. But no, hacks like Jason Aaron had to "villainize" cyke, even though Logan was a total idiot back then and Scott was the one who saved the entire mutant race.

[xiyon]

Hm, I am quite certain that we will see them in Season 2, by the way they are going.

And yes, if some call that timeframe righteous. I am not here to fight or argue. But I know that Cyclops has that arc in comics where the X-Men team is split and one of the halves is Cyclops, Utopia I believe it is called. I vaguely remember reading a few chapters.

I'm a bit anxious about it, for reasons I've already stated. Unless '97 somehow adapts House of M / Endangered Species somehow without the Avengers.

Look it that way, if someone does something in the RL world, they are judged by their actions. This is no different, Scott was judged by his actions and they didn't consider that he was possessed by DF.

You've hit the nail on the head. I think it's that, in-universe, no one brings up Cyke's possession by the PF leading to him obliterating Xavier, but for pretty much every other character prior to Cyke, it's always been an excuse. Then, in-character, Cyke doesn't bring it up in self-defense and just kept blaming himself.

That's what pretty much cemented the "It's only wrong when Cyke does it" meme.

[Darth_Caedus]

RCO033_1465618668.jpgRCO034_1465618668.jpg Thank God we had Gillen back then. This is one of my favorite Ororo and Scott interactions. Shows how much they love and trust one another.

[xiyon]

Off-topic, but all this discussion has me remembering my favorite moment in Messiah Complex





And even Heroic Age:

[Darth_Caedus]

Off-topic, but all this discussion has me remembering my favorite moment in Messiah Complex





And even Heroic Age:

What a great time it was to be a Cyclops fan. Before the dark times, before Hackman and his legion of doofuses...

[xiyon]

What a great time it was to be a Cyclops fan. Before the dark times, before Hackman and his legion of doofuses...

As much as I'm loving '97 now, they better not butcher Messiah Complex if the show ends up there. I will riot

[Darth_Caedus]

As much as I'm loving '97 now, they better not butcher Messiah Complex if the show ends up there. I will riot

It's actually good to see people who like Scott's character are writing and directing the show. Wish it was the same for comics too.

[Darth_Caedus]

RCO004.jpg
RCO005.jpg
One of the greatest Cyclops moments of all time imo

[Indifferent fanatic77]

I dont think its quite the same thing. Jean died literally a day after she went Dark Phoenix. Its hard to villianize and come down on the bed when she ultimately paid for her sins before anyone could even fully process what happened. The stakes were different in AvX vs DPS. What Jean did in DPS happened in space and quite foreign and abstract to them. AvX was far more personal bc of the deciMation. and the state that the world was in. Each of the P5 were losing it and ended up doing awful things including killing Xavier, so yeah people were going to be more personally affected in a way they wouldnt have been in DPS.

When they did think that Dark Phoenix was back thanks to Mastermind in UXM 175, they were all ready to take her out and werent coming at "Jean" as a beloved friend, but the threat that she was percieved as. Wolverine stabbed Rachel and nearly killed her when he thought she ran the risk of becoming Dark Phoenix as well



Emma only worked for a very specific version of Scott. The man he became during the deciMation benefited from having someone with a questionable moral compass by his side. I think if we look at him throughout ost of his history, they would be such a mismatch otherwise. When he got what he needed, he discarded her and hasnt looked back. She kinda deserves better and I dont think ultimately Scott was every fitting. Im actually enjoying her and Iron Man and feel he is better suited for Emma


They reunited in UXM 22 and no Jean was single after coming back. She was romantically linked to Bishop in Age of X-Man but that was an alternate reality they were whisked to with their minds messed with

How can you say Emma works with one version of Scott? That's more evident with jean. They (the krakoa writers) reverted Cyclops so that he could be with jean. Scott had rejected Xavier due to his past manipulations and yet he is fine working under him, he had fought Sinister and Apocalpse many times and yet they are his allies, he believed in what he was doing during Utopia/Schism/AvX/IvX and yet he said that he was wrong after all of it, he fought with wolverine many times and was called "Magneto 2.0" by wolverine and his acolytes (storm included) and now he's cool with them. If Emma only works with one version, why was he reverted to the boy scout and reunited with jean?

Emma wasn't paired with him because she was a questionable moral compass. He was going through a shift from a loyal follower to a leader of his own; at the same time, Emma was going through her shift from villain to hero who earned the title of being an X-man. Their changes mirrored each other's so it was easy for them to resonate with each other. Scott accepted Emma for who she was and stood up for her when she was seen as an outcast by the other x-men (mainly Kitty from what I remember). At the same time, Emma supported Scott's transition into his role as a leader and was one of his main trusted advisors. I get annoyed at people who misconstrue the EmmaxScott relationship as Scott and his yes-man. There were times when they disagreed, and there was a time when Emma was considering joining Wolverine's faction during the schism. Scott wasn't the main character getting a hot girlfriend (Emma), Emma and Scott went through actual character growth. Say what you want about Joss Whedon, but nobody has written a more convincing X-Men relationship than him. Scott and Emma weren't based on some "destined to be together" bullsh*t, those were two people with their own traumas coming together, accepting one another, healing together and building each other up. Not to be who they were expected to be but to who they wanted to be.

You say that we should look at his history and that it would show he wouldn't be with her, but you're looking at a part of his history, not all of it. You're looking at who he was when he was with jean and ignoring everything after.

"When he got what he needed, he discarded her and hasnt looked back."

That is not true and you know it. Cyclops hasn't done anything like that and he is not that kind of person.

I'll admit I d*ckride Cyclops a lot and I'm a huge Frosty-Summers fan so I tried to be respectful as possible.