Cyclops/Scott Summers Appreciation 2024

[whitecrown]

Claremont hasn't been a decent writer for decades and his run with Scott as its lead was his best work anyway. Ororo loving Scott? To be honest I don't think anyone has ever truly loved and respected Scott as much as Yana and Emma

Yet his work remains the cultural touchstone of the X-Men which can't be said for anything that came after. He's one of the most famous writers of all time, worked with many great visionaries like George Lucas and James Cameron precisely because of his talent and status, and is still considered the X-Men's father to this day. Before in "Beau we trust," there was only Claremont.

I've heard of judging people by the company they keep although I haven't heard of judging people by the people who love them. If that was the case, those two would be the last on my list I would want in terms of love and respect. Scott should consider earning the love of more respected individuals such as Ororo, Jean, Kurt, Kitty, Logan, Rogue, Remy, Betsy, Jubilee, Bobby, Warren, etc.

[Darth_Caedus]

And Emma has been a superhero since the Gen X days.

[whitecrown]

Magneto is not a villain. What Claremont has said about Magik is irrelevant because he's not George Lucas. He was just a writer hired to work for Marvel

He flips and flops. Out of all the "reformed" X-villains, he's the only one I would somewhat trust after Rogue. The rest are all villains pure and simple.

Claremont wrote Illyana and more or less created the character, certainly the Magik incarnation was his creation. He wasn't allowed to end her story as Simonson did that, but he wrote everything for her before that.

[Darth_Caedus]

Yet his work remains the cultural touchstone of the X-Men which can't be said for anything that came after. He's one of the most famous writers of all time, worked with many great visionaries like George Lucas and James Cameron precisely because of his talent and status, and is still considered the X-Men's father to this day. Before in "Beau we trust," there was only Claremont.

I've heard of judging people by the company they keep although I haven't heard of judging people by the people who love them. If that was the case, those two would be the last on my list I would want in terms of love and respect. Scott should consider earning the love of more respected individuals such as Ororo, Jean, Kurt, Kitty, Logan, Rogue, Remy, Betsy, Jubilee, Bobby, Warren, etc.

One of the most famous comic book writers yeah. Writers in general? Lol.
Anyway you can like Claremont but I don't trust a man child who hates my favorite characters' guts.
Scott has no obligation to gain the love of those you mentioned because most of them have betrayed him. Logan? seriously?

[whitecrown]

One of the most famous comic book writers yeah. Writers in general? Lol.
Anyway you can like Claremont but I don't trust a man child who hates my favorite characters' guts.
Scott has no obligation to gain the love of those you mentioned because most of them have betrayed him. Logan? seriously?

He's done a lot of novels and work outside of X-Men. People forget that he has a writing career outside of the X-Men and didn't even want to have a career in comics initially. How many people can say they co-authored books with George Lucas?

Claremont has been asked by fans if he hates Scott and he's never said he hates him. He said he hates what was done with him. He feels Scott can never be forgiven for leaving his wife and son until he redeems that original sin. I watched his interview once explaining his reasoning and it made a lot of sense to me as to why he is still stuck on the Scott thing.

I think all those individuals I listed have proven to be time-tested friends with him and cared for him over and over more than anyone else. They are his family and you don't always like family but that doesn't matter. I didn't even include more controversial choices like Alex or similarly character assassinated people like Hank and Xavier. Also Piotr as well would be in that group now that he's not possessed by the Juggernaut anymore. I believe Logan has a respect for Scott that few people possess because he's worked with him so closely and because he knows the woman he loves would not love another man if he wasn't worth it. If Logan has been hard on Scott in past years, it's because he felt Scott was betraying himself and his ideals. That's why I was Team Logan because all he was doing was trying to show Scott that there was a better way which was once Scott's way. Similarly, I believe few respect Logan the way Scott does. That relationship has been set in stone since the early years after the Proteus Saga.

[whitecrown]

Oh and goodness gracious, I forgot Rachel and Nathan. They would be on the list too, especially Rachel because frankly she hasn't been treated very well yet she still remains loyal.

[Darth_Caedus]

Sure they've loved him throughout the years but from my own perspective not even Jean has loved Scott as much Emma has. Had it not been for Marvel's nostalgia fetish he and Scott might have ended up married and could've been the next PeterxMJ. Anyway I don't think this conversation can go anywhere because you're still attached to a version of the x men that hasn't been around for decades and hold a grudge against a character that was redeemed a long time ago.

[whitecrown]

Sure they've loved him throughout the years but from my own perspective not even Jean has loved Scott as much Emma has. Had it not been for Marvel's nostalgia fetish he and Scott might have ended up married and could've been the next PeterxMJ. Anyway I don't think this conversation can go anywhere because you're still attached to a version of the x men that hasn't been around for decades and hold a grudge against a character that was redeemed a long time ago.

You don't become the next Peter & MJ that easily. Especially not when the relationship is adulterous and one partner literally raped the other using her questionable status as a licensed therapist. That would be deemed rape most everywhere and an abuse of power but I think most Scott fans (and this is true for fans of male characters in general) do not like to perceive their favorite as a victim and violated. Very telling that this relationship is not only condoned but elevated by a certain subsection of fans and deemed as being the person who loves him most. A very classic case of abuse and grooming when said individual convinces you that you are alone and nobody else can love you like they do.

But back to Peter & MJ. Peter & MJ were around for decades as a couple, much longer than Gwen's entire lifespan. In fact, MJ was introduced before Gwen ever was. Stan was a Gwen fan, not an MJ fan. Fans preferred MJ which the letter pages prove back then. Stan even tried to sabotage MJ by giving her this awful haircut but it backfired. Fans hated the haircut but still wanted MJ around.


As a couple, they are a classic and have always been beloved by fans, leading to their being so iconic like Clark and Lois. Your ship has nowhere near the amount of clout or recognition to become a classic, let alone iconic. Thankfully my version of the X-Men is the dominant one in pop culture and seeing a revival with X-Men '97 and even the current UXM flagship book is returning to 90s nostalgia with Jubilee, Kurt, Rogue, and Remy. What's old is gold and the masses have spoken in terms of what they want from the X-Men in Deadpool & Wolverine. I have no idea what's been going on with Scott in the comics lately, but there should be no reason to fret because he is shining on TV and will be given his chance to shine on the big screen very soon I'm sure. There should be more excitement and fervor over him finally getting his day in the sun.

[Darth_Caedus]

You don't become the next Peter & MJ that easily. Especially not when the relationship is adulterous and one partner literally raped the other using her questionable status as a licensed therapist. That would be deemed rape most everywhere and an abuse of power but I think most Scott fans (and this is true for fans of male characters in general) do not like to perceive their favorite as a victim and violated. Very telling that this relationship is not only condoned but elevated by a certain subsection of fans and deemed as being the person who loves him most. A very classic case of abuse and grooming when said individual convinces you that you are alone and nobody else can love you like they do.

But back to Peter & MJ. Peter & MJ were around for decades as a couple, much longer than Gwen's entire lifespan. In fact, MJ was introduced before Gwen ever was. Stan was a Gwen fan, not an MJ fan. Fans preferred MJ which the letter pages prove back then. Stan even tried to sabotage MJ by giving her this awful haircut but it backfired. Fans hated the haircut but still wanted MJ around.


As a couple, they are a classic and have always been beloved by fans, leading to their being so iconic like Clark and Lois. Your ship has nowhere near the amount of clout or recognition to become a classic, let alone iconic. Thankfully my version of the X-Men is the dominant one in pop culture and seeing a revival with X-Men '97 and even the current UXM flagship book is returning to 90s nostalgia with Jubilee, Kurt, Rogue, and Remy. What's old is gold and the masses have spoken in terms of what they want from the X-Men in Deadpool & Wolverine. I have no idea what's been going on with Scott in the comics lately, but there should be no reason to fret because he is shining on TV and will be given his chance to shine on the big screen very soon I'm sure. There should be more excitement and fervor over him finally getting his day in the sun.

The foundations of Scemma was messed up. But they became X-Men's power couple for a decade. And for white straight male readers who make up the majority of the comic book audience, Scott being in relationship with a sexy blonde who loved him without any entanglements from a certain hairy midget, who made him speak his mind and encouraged him to let go was more appealing than Scott and Jean's relationship which seemed to be centered around other themes.

[Darth_Caedus]

And to be honest, Scott wasn't that much of a well written character before Whedon's Astonishing X-Men. That's the first comic that you feel like he's his own character. Before that, he was just sorta there I guess? You can't blame the X-Men movie writers because they really had no top material to work with when it came to Cyclops.
Whedon turned him from discount Leonardo into Mutant Batman

[whitecrown]

The foundations of Scemma was messed up. But they became X-Men's power couple for a decade. And for white straight male readers who make up the majority of the comic book audience, Scott being in relationship with a sexy blonde who loved him without any entanglements from a certain hairy midget, who made him speak his mind and encouraged him to let go was more appealing than Scott and Jean's relationship which seemed to be centered around other themes.

Any relationship started on such a foundation is doomed from the start which is exactly what happened. It doesn't take a real licensed therapist to tell you that. Power couple is one of those terms I find super overused, especially in the social media age, because people throw whatever terms they like around until they lose all meaning. The real power couples in this world are the ones who can raise a family amidst all the craziness in the world. I think Reed/Sue, Peter/MJ, Ororo/T'Challa, Wanda/Vision, Luke/Jessica, etc. are all real power couples whose fidelity and love has been tested over and over and weren't united on genocide and mass murder.
Your description of why they were accepted just speaks volumes as to what the underlying issue is and how some fans will accept their hero being victimized and even raped so long as it looks like he's still "the man" and in charge. An actual consensual relationship with no illegitimate power dynamics is considered dangerous and unequal because these people cannot accept a woman being a man's equal. It's not a Scott thing btw. This is very much true for most male character's fans. I've seen T'Challa fans be brutal in the way they treat Ororo on these forums with the most misogynistic drivel about her. It's why I don't really consider them a great couple and prefer her with Forge or Logan. Jean and Ororo are united in many ways and how they've been treated by certain fandoms is sadly yet another common denominator. And going back to Scott, it once more looks like some fans of his feel that Scott should not even be allowed to breathe unless it's being done to spite Logan because they think Logan's mere existence is a constant threat. I'm seeing that general trend of jealousy now with even some of the scans where people were upset about how Jean "shamed" Scott in front of everyone, seems more like annoyance that Logan was there and took Jean's side so there must be some tacit conspiracy going on with Logan and Jean trying to emasculate Scott. I think it's such a shame how the Scott/Logan relationship has devolved over the years. I can't speak for the comics, but I think the MCU will redeem it and get past all the bad blood so that general audiences see them as they viewed Steve/Tony or Luke/Han.

[Darth_Caedus]

Any relationship started on such a foundation is doomed from the start which is exactly what happened. It doesn't take a real licensed therapist to tell you that. Power couple is one of those terms I find super overused, especially in the social media age, because people throw whatever terms they like around until they lose all meaning. The real power couples in this world are the ones who can raise a family amidst all the craziness in the world. I think Reed/Sue, Peter/MJ, Ororo/T'Challa, Wanda/Vision, Luke/Jessica, etc. are all real power couples whose fidelity and love has been tested over and over and weren't united on genocide and mass murder.
Your description of why they were accepted just speaks volumes as to what the underlying issue is and how some fans will accept their hero being victimized and even raped so long as it looks like he's still "the man" and in charge. An actual consensual relationship with no illegitimate power dynamics is considered dangerous and unequal because these people cannot accept a woman being a man's equal. It's not a Scott thing btw. This is very much true for most male character's fans. I've seen T'Challa fans be brutal in the way they treat Ororo on these forums with the most misogynistic drivel about her. It's why I don't really consider them a great couple and prefer her with Forge or Logan. Jean and Ororo are united in many ways and how they've been treated by certain fandoms is sadly yet another common denominator. And going back to Scott, it once more looks like some fans of his feel that Scott should not even be allowed to breathe unless it's being done to spite Logan because they think Logan's mere existence is a constant threat. I'm seeing that general trend of jealousy now with even some of the scans where people were upset about how Jean "shamed" Scott in front of everyone, seems more like annoyance that Logan was there and took Jean's side so there must be some tacit conspiracy going on with Logan and Jean trying to emasculate Scott. I think it's such a shame how the Scott/Logan relationship has devolved over the years. I can't speak for the comics, but I think the MCU will redeem it and get past all the bad blood so that general audiences see them as they viewed Steve/Tony or Luke/Han.

What I'm trying to say that Scott's association with Jean has never validated his character. In fact every character assassination he's went through in all forms of media is because he loves her.

[whitecrown]

And to be honest, Scott wasn't that much of a well written character before Whedon's Astonishing X-Men. That's the first comic that you feel like he's his own character. Before that, he was just sorta there I guess? You can't blame the X-Men movie writers because they really had no top material to work with when it came to Cyclops.
Whedon turned him from discount Leonardo into Mutant Batman

Wow, I did not expect to hear this from you. Didn't you say you love classic Scott but now you're repudiating him? Don't tell me you drank the koolaid? I've never felt he was badly written before. I thought he was definitely badly written with Morrison, Whedon, Fraction, etc.

I don't know how anyone could read 40 years of X-Men publication and think Scott was only there and had no presence or personality. That's just so absurd to me. You don't get popularity from just being there for 40 years. Ask Lorna fans, they know. If you had kids playing Wolverine on the playground in the 90s, there were always kids playing Cyclops as well. That doesn't come from being a colorless character. He very much had a personality and yeah, it's not to everyone's taste, but Wolverine isn't to everyone's taste either.

I don't get the competitive rivalry with Wolverine that seems to come up but characters like Luke Skywalker and Steve Rogers have always been popular for being the traditional, boy scout heroes. Yes, Han Solo and Tony Stark were more popular because they're wild and they break the rules but they can only exist because of the Lukes and Steves. And their popularity did not mean that Luke and Steve were lesser or not popular themselves. However, I have noticed in the Luke fandom what I've seeing with Scott now which is that there was a lot of resentment from Luke fans towards Han Solo and how the general public preferred Han. Which once more, doesn't mean Luke wasn't liked or not the main hero, but the public has always gone for the slightly more exciting character.

To say Scott had no personality under Claremont or Simonson is crazy to me. Even in the O5 days, Scott was considered the best written of the original team and the one with the most emotional resonance with readers. Fans didn't ship Jean with Warren just because he was rich and attractive. They picked Scott because he's the one they felt for and rooted for, much like Peter Parker who also always carried his neverending angst with him. That is part of the charm of these characters and why audiences always root for underdogs. If Scott is the underdog to Wolverine, that is in his favor.

Discount Leonardo and Mutant Batman are both two terms that I would never associate with Scott. I have never seen anyone say Scott is like Batman. There are comparisons to Wolverine, Tony Stark, and even Angel, but not Scott. And I don't get the discount Leonardo even more since Leo became famous in the late 90s, especially with female fans. There was Leo mania which was a very real thing. Scott was around for decades before that and even if he was somehow like Leo, that would only be a point in his favor. There's really no connection there for me so I hope you can explain what you mean by that.

[whitecrown]

What I'm trying to say that Scott's association with Jean has never validated his character. In fact every character assassination he's went through in all forms of media is because he loves her.

The Maddie thing had nothing to do with Scott's love for Jean. It had to do with the public wanting Jean back because she was a massively popular character and thankfully still is. Before Wolverine became the breakout character, it was very much Phoenix in those early days of UXM. Byrne even said he resented how much attention Phoenix got and how the rest of the X-Men became superfluous with her around (sound familiar?) Her death was considered a cultural shift for a reason because no popular character had ever been killed off like that before. The closest was Gwen but she was just the hero's girlfriend. Jean was the hero in her own right and around since day one. As Byrne said, she was the second lady of Marvel after Sue. Byrne also said that fans had been dying to see the O5 reunited since forever, which wasn't possible with Jean dead. There were fans of the original book who couldn't accept the X-Men as Claremont wrote it because that wasn't the X-Men to them. You could read the letter pages for UXM and see that people (including Claremont himself) were hung up over Jean's death and could not let her go. They wanted her back and Marvel had no problem with that as long as she wasn't responsible for a genocide. The second they could iron out that kink, she was brought back and the O5 was reunited. There's a reason the front cover for X-Factor 1 says "because you demanded it."

Maddie and son were collateral damage because nobody besides Claremont actually liked them.

[Darth_Caedus]

Wow, I did not expect to hear this from you. Didn't you say you love classic Scott but now you're repudiating him? Don't tell me you drank the koolaid? I've never felt he was badly written before. I thought he was definitely badly written with Morrison, Whedon, Fraction, etc.

I don't know how anyone could read 40 years of X-Men publication and think Scott was only there and had no presence or personality. That's just so absurd to me. You don't get popularity from just being there for 40 years. Ask Lorna fans, they know. If you had kids playing Wolverine on the playground in the 90s, there were always kids playing Cyclops as well. That doesn't come from being a colorless character. He very much had a personality and yeah, it's not to everyone's taste, but Wolverine isn't to everyone's taste either.

I don't get the competitive rivalry with Wolverine that seems to come up but characters like Luke Skywalker and Steve Rogers have always been popular for being the traditional, boy scout heroes. Yes, Han Solo and Tony Stark were more popular because they're wild and they break the rules but they can only exist because of the Lukes and Steves. And their popularity did not mean that Luke and Steve were lesser or not popular themselves. However, I have noticed in the Luke fandom what I've seeing with Scott now which is that there was a lot of resentment from Luke fans towards Han Solo and how the general public preferred Han. Which once more, doesn't mean Luke wasn't liked or not the main hero, but the public has always gone for the slightly more exciting character.

To say Scott had no personality under Claremont or Simonson is crazy to me. Even in the O5 days, Scott was considered the best written of the original team and the one with the most emotional resonance with readers. Fans didn't ship Jean with Warren just because he was rich and attractive. They picked Scott because he's the one they felt for and rooted for, much like Peter Parker who also always carried his neverending angst with him. That is part of the charm of these characters and why audiences always root for underdogs. If Scott is the underdog to Wolverine, that is in his favor.

Discount Leonardo and Mutant Batman are both two terms that I would never associate with Scott. I have never seen anyone say Scott is like Batman. There are comparisons to Wolverine, Tony Stark, and even Angel, but not Scott. And I don't get the discount Leonardo even more since Leo became famous in the late 90s, especially with female fans. There was Leo mania which was a very real thing. Scott was around for decades before that and even if he was somehow like Leo, that would only be a point in his favor. There's really no connection there for me so I hope you can explain what you mean by that.

You're hearing this from me because I'm becoming more pessimistic day by day.

Tbh, silver and bronze ages of comics are pretty boring to read nowadays. Modern age of comics is when they really start to feel important.

Batman has nothing in common with Wolverine outside of being an animal themed superhero. Hal Jordan is more like Logan than anyone else. Scott always has a plan b for a plan b. That's a Batman thing and Leonardo is the most boring of all the TMNT.