Cyclops/Scott Summers Appreciation 2024

[Super-Cyke]

In response to your question, I am a Jott fan/loyalist, we do exist. And also a Cyclops fan. Scott and Jean's relationship has been bogged down by the stupid love triangle with Logan, which was introduced and has persisted because readers care about Scott and Jean together. It has led writers to repeatedly design scenarios for strife (most notably Inferno and Grant Morrison's run) between Scott and Jean, which provides an opportunity for Jean's attraction to Logan to be expressed (and in Morrison's run Scott's relationship with Emma). When stories remove that element or separate Scott and Jean from Logan...they are happy, functional and loving partners--Phoenix/Dark Phoenix saga, the X-Factor run, The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, and the vast majority of Duggan's X-Men run (yes there was the angst over the Brood in issues 21-23 but that was addressed/resolved maturely and lovingly in 24)

Your preference for Scott and Emma is understandable given the era of comics that served as your entry point. Three quick points about that era...First, it was the 2000s, during which comics and society as a whole have been more open and direct about sex, so Scott and Emma had the benefit of being depicted as having a much more mature/sexual/intimate relationship than Scott and Jean (this was intention beginning with Morrison, who had Scott describe himself and Jean as high school sweethearts, ignoring much of their relationship and the fact that they raised a child together for 12 years in the future). However, beginning with the Phoenix saga and continuing until the Morrison run there are references/dialogue/scenes establishing Scott and Jean had a happy physical relationship. Second, the era you read was committed to establishing Scott and Emma as the primary couple...with Scott stating he chose Emma (over Jean) on multiple occasions, and Emma frequently disparaging Scott's relationship with Jean with little or no response from him. Finally, the period you read was one of change for Cyclops, as he moved from field commander of the X-Men to Mutant Leader, filling the void left by Xavier and Magneto. Emma was an essential partner in that growth...influencing how he evolved. I believe he still would have evolved into the leader (maybe differently) if Jean was alive and with him at the time.

Anyway...that is long a reponse to your question.

Thanks for your thoughts! Yes, the majority of the X-men related comics I read were from the 00/Cyclops/Emma era. I'll have to check out some of the comics from the eras you mentioned. I feel bad for Jott fans. It seems the temptation to see the drama the love triangle creates is just too much for writers and Marvel to ignore.

Apocalypse is literally the mutant version of Adolf Hitler. His ideology is basically National Socialism but with mutants as the master race instead of the Germanic peoples. There's no way you could ever redeem a character like that and Scott and Jean of all people being ok with him as one of the mutant leaders was total character assassination.
Don't let me even talk about how Krakoa mirrors Heinrich Himmler's vision of a pagan society in tune with nature and plants, reproducing more Nordic looking superhumans while abolishing Christian laws of marriage etc.
Simply put, Hickman turned X-Men into villains.

I skipped out on the Krakoa era and from what I've seen in this thread, since liking Cyclops is my pain attraction to X-men stories, it seems I didn't miss much.

[Rev9]

Apocalypse is literally the mutant version of Adolf Hitler. His ideology is basically National Socialism but with mutants as the master race instead of the Germanic peoples. There's no way you could ever redeem a character like that and Scott and Jean of all people being ok with him as one of the mutant leaders was total character assassination.
Don't let me even talk about how Krakoa mirrors Heinrich Himmler's vision of a pagan society in tune with nature and plants, reproducing more Nordic looking superhumans while abolishing Christian laws of marriage etc.
Simply put, Hickman turned X-Men into villains.

My guess is Hickman set it up that way to have schism between those who had their heads screwed on right and those who didn't. He probably didn't see Krakoa lasting that long.The other writers wanted to keep it around longer and crucially didn't want internal fissures and so we ultimately got what we got.

[Darth_Caedus]

My guess is Hickman set it up that way to have schism between those who had their heads screwed on right and those who didn't. He probably didn't see Krakoa lasting that long.The other writers wanted to keep it around longer and crucially didn't want internal fissures and so we ultimately got what we got.

I don't think so. Hickman is well known for turning superheroes into cabals of morally corrupt assholes. He should stay away from superhero comic books. It's the Alan Moore syndrome which Alan Moore himself hates so much. Superheroes should remain heroic, virtues and morally incorruptible. That's why the silver age of comics is still the most successful era in the industry.

[Havok83]

The X-men were still heroes. The team was specifically assembled to be the heroic face of Krakoa and that wa partially Cyclop's idea

[Darth_Caedus]

The X-Men were representing a mutant supremacist nation ruled by genocidal overlords such as Apocalypse and Ex-Nazis such as Sinister. That's not heroism, that's nationalism.

[NearlyEnough]

The X-men were still heroes. The team was specifically assembled to be the heroic face of Krakoa and that wa partially Cyclop's idea

The thing is that they are still part of Krakoa, Cyclops still reports to the council and obeys most of their orders, which is a really bad thing because it goes against all his principles and moral code, a better arc for Cyclops would've been if he was never part of Krakoa and he just lived in NY or Alaska doing superhero stuff COMPLETELY separated from Krakoa, not recognizing their authority and wanting nothing to do with them, that sounds more like the Cyclops I know, someone who wouldn't just accept a bunch of incompetent evil monsters to tell him what to do and instead does his own heroic thing.

Thanks for your thoughts! Yes, the majority of the X-men related comics I read were from the 00/Cyclops/Emma era. I'll have to check out some of the comics from the eras you mentioned. I feel bad for Jott fans. It seems the temptation to see the drama the love triangle creates is just too much for writers and Marvel to ignore.




I skipped out on the Krakoa era and from what I've seen in this thread, since liking Cyclops is my pain attraction to X-men stories, it seems I didn't miss much.

The Krakoa era was really bad for Scott, easily his worst era, he went from mutantkind's greatest leader to incompetent nonentity who reports to the nazi who tortured and experimented on him as a child and mutant Adolf Hitler who ruined his son's life and possessed his body to use it as a weapon against his friends and family. It seems like the new era will be much better though, they describe Cyclops as "mutantkind’s ultimate leader, and arguably the most brilliant strategic mind in the entire Marvel Universe" which shows that whoever wrote that has a better understanding of Scott's character than Hickman and Duggan ever did, many people are crying because "muh Krakoa, muh mutant culture" but Krakoa was actually a terrible era in terms of characterization which is the most important thing in a story, who cares about colorful views when Cyclops after proving himself for years is working for a bunch of incompetent monsters and ugh... sharing Jean with Wolverine, I don't care about Krakoa era Cucklops I want the real Cyclops back.

After all the character development he went through and how he carried mutantkind on his shoulders during their lowest point, saving them from extinction and ensuring a future for the entire race, he doesn't need to follow anyone's orders, he's the boss, he's not beneath anyone, which is something Hickman didn't get, he just gave him a couple of one-liners and everyone who's not interested in Cyclops' character thought that it was good characterization when in fact it's the worst characterization he's ever have.

[Havok83]

The X-Men were representing a mutant supremacist nation ruled by genocidal overlords such as Apocalypse and Ex-Nazis such as Sinister. That's not heroism, that's nationalism.

The X-men fought for ALL people, not just the interest of Krakoa. They moved back to NY so that they could be amongst humans and be able to better respond to threats that would jeopardize the world







We literally saw them be heroic and save billions of lives on Earth and across the galaxy

#CYCLOPSWASRIGHT

The thing is that they are still part of Krakoa, Cyclops still reports to the council and obeys most of their orders, which is a really bad thing because it goes against all his principles and moral code, a better arc for Cyclops would've been if he was never part of Krakoa and he just lived in NY or Alaska doing superhero stuff COMPLETELY separated from Krakoa, not recognizing their authority and wanting nothing to do with them, that sounds more like the Cyclops I know, someone who wouldn't just accept a bunch of incompetent evil monsters to tell him what to do and instead does his own heroic thing.

The Xmen did not report to the QC. They were indepedent agents and did things on their own

[Neocide]

The X-men fought for ALL people, not just the interest of Krakoa. They moved back to NY so that they could be amongst humans and be able to better respond to threats that would jeopardize the world







We literally saw them be heroic and save billions of lives on Earth and across the galaxy

#CYCLOPSWASRIGHT

Yea while I didn't think this era was great for Scott, I'm not going to say they were equal to Nazis, not a group that's been victimized, marginalized, put on the brink on extinction etc.

Instead of focusing on negative aspects of krakoa I tend to look on the positive it had,albeit inclusion with more humans would've been nice.

I am glad he's back to having a more prominent role, hopefully he gets some good development from the end of krakoa.

[NearlyEnough]

Duggan using "Cyclops was right" during the era in which Cyclops is working for a corrupt government of incompetent monsters was trash, Bendis' Cyclops would never accept to be part of Krakoa.

What the X-Men did was heroic indeed BUT the fact that they still listened to the council and recognized Krakoa's authority kinda ruins the whole thing, it would've been much better if Scott was never part of Krakoa in the first place and formed the X-Men with people who also disagreed with Krakoa, it has way more potential for a story and it would've been great "mutants say that Krakoa is a paradise yet their greatest leader and hero wants nothing to do with it" .

Btw, I think this is relevant to the conversation:

“if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis” .

[Havok83]

Duggan using "Cyclops was right" during the era in which Cyclops is working for a corrupt government of incompetent monsters was trash, Bendis' Cyclops would never accept to be part of Krakoa.

What the X-Men did was heroic indeed BUT the fact that they still listened to the council and recognized Krakoa's authority kinda ruins the whole thing, it would've been much better if Scott was never part of Krakoa in the first place and formed the X-Men with people who also disagreed with Krakoa, it has way more potential for a story and it would've been great "mutants say that Krakoa is a paradise yet their greatest leader and hero wants nothing to do with it" .

Btw, I think this is relevant to the conversation:

“if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis” .

The thing with Cyclops i that he has been many different things over the years. Bendis's Cyclops isnt the only version of him nor does his existence negate or make any other Cyclops not valid. There are and were peopl that argued that the stuff that Bendis' Cyclops did and acted are things the character would never do but it happened. I remember the time and people also claiming character assassination with him. And the same claims were said under Fraction in the Utopia era and before that with Whedon in Astonishing and before that with Morrison in NXM. Heck people were saying it before Hickman during that Rosenberg UXM run, which IMO I saw as a reset for the character having been resurrected with the memories and experiences of his teen self unlocked which put him in a position to view the world in a different context than when he had died

Cyclops means different things to different people. Im not going to be quick to say he's suffering from character assassination bc his portrayal doesnt line up with my idealized version in my head. Not unless he is actually doin things that are way out of character, which wasnt really the case during this era. The biggest offense was how little he was utilized. He joked about him being Captain Cameo on here and thats bc showed up alot but didnt really get to do a whole ot

[NearlyEnough]

The thing with Cyclops i that he has been many different things over the years. Bendis's Cyclops isnt the only version of him nor does his existence negate or make any other Cyclops not valid. There are and were peopl that argued that the stuff that Bendis' Cyclops did and acted are things the character would never do but it happened. I remember the time and people also claiming character assassination with him. And the same claims were said under Fraction in the Utopia era and before that with Whedon in Astonishing and before that with Morrison in NXM. Heck people were saying it before Hickman during that Rosenberg UXM run, which IMO I saw as a reset for the character having been resurrected with the memories and experiences of his teen self unlocked which put him in a position to view the world in a different context than when he had died

Cyclops means different things to different people. Im not going to be quick to say he's suffering from character assassination bc his portrayal doesnt line up with my idealized version in my head. Not unless he is actually doin things that are way out of character, which wasnt really the case during this era. The biggest offense was how little he was utilized. He joked about him being Captain Cameo on here and thats bc showed up alot but didnt really get to do a whole ot

He was an incompetent nonentity, that's character assassination IMO, especially because he had been the main character of the X-Men for more than ten years before Krakoa. Also, as many people have said, Scott reporting to the QC is pretty bad as well, it goes against his principles and moral code, also, letting Jean hook up with Logan goes against 60 years of characterization and who he is on a fundamental level, with the way he's been written in Krakoa he might as well be a completely different person who looks exactly like him. Neither Hickman nor Duggan have any idea how to write him and they clearly didn't even try, they just don't like his character so they wrote him in the most bland way possible while also, making him a simp and a cuck.

[Havok83]

He was an incompetent nonentity, that's character assassination IMO, especially because he had been the main character of the X-Men for more than ten years before Krakoa. Also, as many people have said, Scott reporting to the QC is pretty bad as well, it goes against his principles and moral code, also, letting Jean hook up with Logan goes against 60 years of characterization and who he is on a fundamental level, with the way he's been written in Krakoa he might as well be a completely different person who looks exactly like him.

Scott was not character assassinated. The two characters that actually were this era were Moira and Beast. This era destroyed them in a way that made them unviable to be used going forward unless there is a massive retcon. Beast literally had to be killed off and replaced by a clone from 30 years ago and Moira is most likely done in a few months. Nothing done with Scott has made him unviable and the next writer can pick him up and move forward with little effort

[NearlyEnough]

Scott was not character assassinated. The two characters that actually were this era were Moira and Beast. This era destroyed them in a way that made them unviable to be used going forward unless there is a massive retcon. Beast literally had to be killed off and replaced by a clone from 30 years ago and Moira is most likely done in a few months. Nothing done with Scott has made him unviable and the next writer can pick him up and move forward with little effort

Not really, the open relationship sets a really bad precedent, now Jean can cheat on Scott with anyone and the writer can just say that Scott doesn't mind and that it's in character for him to be a cuck, when before Krakoa it was a pretty consistent character trait that he really hated Jean and Logan's relationship and Emma cheating on him with Namor disgusted him so much he wouldn't touch her with Namor's trident. Also, now they're gonna pretend like Apocalypse never did anything to him and his family or that it doesn't matter how much you hurt him and his friends, Scott won't mind, also they regressed his character and ignored more than a decade of character development so now he needs to go through all that again.

Krakoa era was to Scott what OMD/BND was to Peter.

[Neocide]

Not really, the open relationship sets a really bad precedent, now Jean can cheat on Scott with anyone and the writer can just say that Scott doesn't mind and that it's in character for him to be a cuck, when before Krakoa it was a pretty consistent character trait that he really hated Jean and Logan's relationship and Emma cheating on him with Namor disgusted him so much he wouldn't touch her with Namor's trident. Also, now they're gonna pretend like Apocalypse never did anything to him and his family or that it doesn't matter how much you hurt him and his friends, Scott won't mind, also they regressed his character and ignored more than a decade of character development so now he needs to go through all that again.

Krakoa era was to Scott what OMD/BND was to Peter.

Eh, the throuple ended as quickly as it began. So that's not happening. And not being used is not the equivalent to be assassinated. He was horribly underused yes . Also you're totally jumping around with the Scott and Emma cheating incident, one Unit initiated that to piss off Scott, two the line Scott said was years later by a different writer on a different book for a different reason.

Also Scott understood Jeans attraction to Logan and was mature enough to understand she wanted to be with him(Scott) this was right before they got married. Like even Logan had moved on. It wasn't till Morrison and then the movies when it came back.

Like I get it you didn't like how he was used, but it's very hyperbole to say the guy was character assassinated because he had an open relationship for all of five minutes and wasn't used much

[Darth_Caedus]

Yeah, I really loved Scott and Jean's relationship in the Krakoan era, it made reading through this reboot much easier for me. The open relationship thing was dropped years ago and I don't understand why people tend to blow it out of proportion. Did I like Percy's Jogan fanfics? Hell no, but it's not like it stuck around anyway. My real gripe is that Scott and Jean should not have been ok with the likes of Sinister being in charge at all and that Scott should've been a more prominent character.