Cyclops/Scott Summers Appreciation 2024

[Havok83]

Duggan wrote that awful moment between Jean and Logan at the last gala, and Hackman wrote that stupid data page and some scenes. Forgot about Gillen with his Sinister's secrets as well.

They all did their best to ruin Scott and Jean's relationship.

Hickman never wrote anything between Wolverine and Jean. He may have opened the door but he did not explore it. No one did besides Percy

Duggan has been Scott and Jean's biggest supportr and has been reinforcing them as a married couple and family unit since he s started in Cable. That gala scene did not depict Jean in a relationship with Wolverine and to interpet as sense doesnt even work with the contesxt that Duggan wrote surrounding the charactersin that event. Scott and Jean were leaving the X-men to go be alone together to work on their marriage before all hell broke loose. Thats what Duggan wrote and what their character had been leading up to in his book

[whitecrown]

Woah, the amount of hate on Storm here and here I wanted to drop in and check how Cyk fans were doing with the X-Men '97 show...

The dark age fans who are calling for Storm to be regressed back to Lightning Lass are real.

[Refrax5]

He started getting those comparisons when he formed X-Force as a secret assassin team to kill his enemies. He bears responsibility for those killed in their mission as he sanctioned that. As for direct "kills"

Mr Sinister. He "killed" him in Inferno. Granted that was retconned, but it was definitly a kill at the time
Donald Pierce
Berzerker
Ugly John
Candra
Dark Beast - another one that got retconned

Yeah, I'm aware of that, which is why I said he had very few "direct" kills, although yes he is responsible for those he directed X-Force to kill. Ugly John really doesn't count because he was already dying in agony and Scott killed him out of mercy and tried to comfort him as he did so. Not exactly Magneto-seque.

Also, the people Cyclops killed or had killed were pretty much the worst of the worst and active threats to mutantkind. That's why I said he only used or accepted lethal force in extreme circumstances, which all of those were. Hes no different than Cap killing Nazis during wartime. It's drastically different than all the people Wolverine slaughtered because he couldn't control his temper or wanted revenge. It's definitely different than Magneto, who had no restraint in killing mutants or humans who got in his way, killed scores of innocent people and used to alternate between wanting to enslave or wipe out the human race.

Cyclops never did any of that. As I've said more than once, Cyclops killed only when he felt it was necessary to protect his people and I don't think he ever killed anyone innocent or tried to enslave or wipe out the human race. His people were on the edge of extinction and he did what he felt he had to in order to save them from genocide. He never killed wantonly or for personal reasons and he didn't relish any of it. In the vast majority of situations (like the Revolutionary Cyclops era), he actively avoided fatalities.

That's a completely different thing that Wolverine and Magneto, who were violent, homicidal maniacs that killed so many more people out of rage or malice. Those two are literal mass murderers who killed people at the drop of a hat because they wanted to take over the world or because they were pissed off. Context and scale are very important here.

Acting as if those two are the same thing, or that mercy killing a dying man he tried to save is equal to what Magneto and Logan do, is a bad faith argument.

[Refrax5]

She's human. Just bc you are in love with one person, doesnt prevent you from being attracted to another. I dont like the pairing at all, but I can se why she would be attracted to him

A murdering ragaholic that disrespects her husband constantly and treats her like a prize he's entitled to? Nah, it makes her look bad.

[NearlyEnough]

The dark age fans who are calling for Storm to be regressed back to Lightning Lass are real.

Sorry for not praising her for being an ******* and shitting on Scott for no reason, I guess. And I doubt anyone here cares about Storm like that lol, she can be a good mary sue as long as she stays away from Scott’s business.

[Darth_Caedus]

Bro you hating on every character right now

[whitecrown]

A murdering ragaholic that disrespects her husband constantly and treats her like a prize he's entitled to? Nah, it makes her look bad.

I want to point out what I've said in other threads is that if you read Claremont's run, Logan and Scott did not have much of a feud. Only in the early days and they never had fights over Jean. In fact, nobody even knew Logan loved Jean or even what his real name was, that's how secretive he was. Their feud was over leadership issues with Logan refusing to follow him and thinking Scott was a coward. And it ended by the Proteus Saga when Scott finally won Logan's respect. You'll see that even in DOFP when Storm becomes leader, Logan gives her the same attitude at first so he was like this with everyone whether it was Cyclops, Storm, or Xavier (remember in UXM 129 when he leaves the Danger Room while Xavier is training him and Xavier chides him by taking away demerits).

Logan's real feud during that time was with Warren. Some of that was over Jean as confirmed by Classic X-Men 1 but also because Warren in general thought Logan was a murdering psycho and always hated him. Scott actually stood up for Logan more often such as in UXM 129 when he tells Xavier that Logan's a grown man and not going to listen to Xavier's demerit talk.

Even in the 90s, Logan had respect for Scott and his marriage with Jean as evident by the letter he sends them in X-Men 30. This dynamic didn't change until the advent of the movies and the 2000s comics followed suit...when continuity and canon no longer made a difference and writers just did whatever they wanted for sales. Hence why this is the dark age and X-Men stopped being #1.

[whitecrown]

Sorry for not praising her for being an ******* and shitting on Scott for no reason, I guess. And I doubt anyone here cares about Storm like that lol, she can be a good mary sue as long as she stays away from Scott’s business.

There's a reason during the X-Men's most popular and critical period, that it was really Ororo who was the team's leader, not Scott. Claremont was retiring him.

But back to Scott and Ororo's relationship, they've never been very close. Ororo mentioned this in X-Men: Worlds Apart about how much Jean, Logan, Kurt, and Peter mean to her but she never had that relationship with Scott. In the Savage Land, when the X-Men think Jean and Hank are dead, Scott is unable to mourn and Ororo is disgusted by this and chews him out for his emotional constipation. Interestingly enough, John Byrne said this is the moment where he feels readers started to hate Cyclops and think he was a "d*ck." Also the moment Byrne said that it was obvious Claremont's women were all bisexual and Claremont was trying to demonstrate that Storm held more love for Jean than Scott did.

[Gray Lensman]

I can't hold what anyone said during the "Mutant Hitler" debacle against anyone on the page, because that was an incredibly stupid editorial mandate which would require me to hate every character in Marvel. Or I could just blame the real people actually responsible for the idiocy - which isn't even the writers, but the ones they answer to.

[Darth_Caedus]

Claremont really did hate Cyclops. Glad he's not touching the character again.

[Darth_Caedus]

I can't hold what anyone said during the "Mutant Hitler" debacle against anyone on the page, because that was an incredibly stupid editorial mandate which would require me to hate every character in Marvel. Or I could just blame the real people actually responsible for the idiocy - which isn't even the writers, but the ones they answer to.

The whole mutaht hitler debacle is stupid because Hitler and pals were gassing people while Scott wanted to stop people from gassing people

[whitecrown]

Claremont really did hate Cyclops. Glad he's not touching the character again.

I don't think he hated him, not at first. He only lost respect for him after the Maddie incident. A fan mentioned meeting him at a signing and actually asked him if he hated Cyclops or not. Claremont said he didn't but he was upset at what was being done to him. And Claremont has said numerous times that he felt Cyclops was ruined as a character after the Maddie incident and that no readers could ever respect him for abandoning his wife and child. That there were kids out there who had been abandoned by a parent so how could someone who was a role model do exactly that and traumatize these kids all over again.

Like I said in a previous post, it's something Cyclops has never been able to live down the same way Hank Pym can't ever get past being a wife abuser.

You'll notice that whenever Claremont does go back to writing Cyclops, he always has to resolve his relationship with Maddie. For Claremont, that was the original sin of the character and he can't be salvaged until that's done. Byrne's take on Cyclops I do prefer mainly because it never involved this drama. Byrne knew that Jean Grey was Scott Summers' true love and that the Maddie drama should never have occurred in the first place. I recommend you reading his X-Men Elsewhen if you haven't. It was the freshest take on Scott in decades.

[Arthas]

I can't hold what anyone said during the "Mutant Hitler" debacle against anyone on the page, because that was an incredibly stupid editorial mandate which would require me to hate every character in Marvel. Or I could just blame the real people actually responsible for the idiocy - which isn't even the writers, but the ones they answer to.

This.

If you actually bring up panels from the era well I will 'hate' on those characters all day long but in terms of the characters? Well let's just say I blame Marvel entirely and Storm, Logan , Bobby etc zero.

EDIT:

I don't think he hated him, not at first. He only lost respect for him after the Maddie incident. A fan mentioned meeting him at a signing and actually asked him if he hated Cyclops or not. Claremont said he didn't but he was upset at what was being done to him. And Claremont has said numerous times that he felt Cyclops was ruined as a character after the Maddie incident and that no readers could ever respect him for abandoning his wife and child. That there were kids out there who had been abandoned by a parent so how could someone who was a role model do exactly that and traumatize these kids all over again.

Like I said in a previous post, it's something Cyclops has never been able to live down the same way Hank Pym can't ever get past being a wife abuser.

You'll notice that whenever Claremont does go back to writing Cyclops, he always has to resolve his relationship with Maddie. For Claremont, that was the original sin of the character and he can't be salvaged until that's done.

Yeah, I feel the same. The ironic thing is that both characters had a lot more going on then the reducted/simplified version that most readers (& in Claremont's case writer) say.

Byrne's take on Cyclops I do prefer mainly because it never involved this drama. Byrne knew that Jean Grey was Scott Summers' true love and that the Maddie drama should never have occurred in the first place. I recommend you reading his X-Men Elsewhen if you haven't. It was the freshest take on Scott in decades.

Thanks for pointing this out. Did not even know this was a thing. Will read it when free.

[Darth_Caedus]

I don't think he hated him, not at first. He only lost respect for him after the Maddie incident. A fan mentioned meeting him at a signing and actually asked him if he hated Cyclops or not. Claremont said he didn't but he was upset at what was being done to him. And Claremont has said numerous times that he felt Cyclops was ruined as a character after the Maddie incident and that no readers could ever respect him for abandoning his wife and child. That there were kids out there who had been abandoned by a parent so how could someone who was a role model do exactly that and traumatize these kids all over again.

Like I said in a previous post, it's something Cyclops has never been able to live down the same way Hank Pym can't ever get past being a wife abuser.

You'll notice that whenever Claremont does go back to writing Cyclops, he always has to resolve his relationship with Maddie. For Claremont, that was the original sin of the character and he can't be salvaged until that's done. Byrne's take on Cyclops I do prefer mainly because it never involved this drama. Byrne knew that Jean Grey was Scott Summers' true love and that the Maddie drama should never have occurred in the first place. I recommend you reading his X-Men Elsewhen if you haven't. It was the freshest take on Scott in decades.

Cyclops wasn't ruined as a character when he left a clone created by Sinister to basically rape him. Lol even Peter has beaten his wife. Claremont being a man child and not moving from something that happened decades ago is the real problem

[Havok83]

I can't hold what anyone said during the "Mutant Hitler" debacle against anyone on the page, because that was an incredibly stupid editorial mandate which would require me to hate every character in Marvel. Or I could just blame the real people actually responsible for the idiocy - which isn't even the writers, but the ones they answer to.

The name Hitler should have never been used. IvX was an attempt to salvage Scott's character his name had been maligned that era. The writers at the time went on record about not know what Scott "did" but were crafted to write a narrative about he had done something so horrible to set back mutant/human relations and one of those writers had him referred to as Hitler in a book. The fact is by the time that Death of X happened, Marvel coud have leaned into it and revealed him to have done something that backed up the rhetoric or the time or they could have backpeddled and made him the victim. They thankfully chose the latter. While Death of X contradicted the Terrigen plotline that had been going on, it was for the best in the long run. IvX came, exonerated him and threw Emma under the bus. I for one am glad they did not stay committed to proven how exactly he was a mutant Hitler