Cyclops/Scott Summers Appreciation 2024

[Refrax5]

And no, don't bring James Marsden back, he supported a pedo and is too old and short to play Scott anyway. The X-Men movies are terrible so bringing back any of the actors from those movies other than Wolverine is pointless.

If someone does something stupid or shitty in their 20s like Marsden did, that means theyre completely evil and they're beyond redemption forever? Marsden was wrong to do that, but that seems sort of simplistic and overboard for me.

I'm not going to get into a thing about it, but I'm not going to presume that I'm qualified to judge the moral worth of a complex human being that I've never met over something he said decades ago. That kind of internet moral outrage over total strangers and situations I'm not privy to isn't my thing. Someone doing one wrong thing doesn't really give me enough information to pass judgement on their entire life.

And Hugh Jackman is too tall and old to play Wolverine, but here we are. They're using the Fox versions for the multiverse Saga.

[Darth_Caedus]

I think the movies tend to color most general audiences' reactions on what these characters are like. In the X-Men's case, it's both the movies and the 90s show that set the standards and the love triangle has been emphasized in both. The show was pretty good about being respectful to Jott in a way the movies were not and Hugh Jackman's Wolverine has become the model for the character. The same way that most casuals will be shocked to learn that Wolverine is really supposed to be short. Yes, there are other forms of X-Men media like Evolution (which I think has the best Jott portrayal from the shows) but those have never had the same impact that the 90s show and movies did.
My point about the video game is that for the bulk of it, Logan and Jean will be a couple. Yes, they break up at the end but only at the end, and for people playing this game, they'll see it as reinforcement that Logan and Jean are a couple. The fact that Jean knows Logan here before she's ever even met Scott will make him seem like a moot point until whenever the actual X-Men video game comes out. ASM ends with Peter and Gwen breaking up but for the bulk of the movie, they were obviously an item and so people will still view them as a couple even if the last scene doesn't feature them walking away together. Same with the first Spider-Man with Peter and MJ. It's stuff like this which influences reactions from the general public which is why the leaked video game had so much backlash for making Logan and Jean a couple. It seems to suggest to me that Marvel has not learned from the movies after all.

Sony is the one responsible for developing that game not Marvel. If Scott and Jean are a couple in mcu, no one would even care about what happens in that game

[whitecrown]

I didn't mean to imply you. I was just chiming in. But, yeah. Logan had definitely moved on from Jean and and fell in love with Mariko. I do remember the back-up story in 'Classic.' CC was fleshing out the whole Logan/Jean thing from the early ANAD days. I didn't like it personally. CC wrote Logan as predatory in my eyes. She said no, please to him and he still would not listen to her, I think CC was going for seductive, but it came off as creepy to me. I think the pairing was definitely more popular with movie fans than comic fans at the time. Fans were still rooting for Scott and Jeans marriage if I remember clearly. Even though there were still people still holding onto the Maddy/Scott mess. But Jean/Logan pairing seemed to gain traction with newer comic fans.

I think that line of thinking, that when a woman says no, she doesn't really mean it, was unfortunately the standard back then especially since films of that era featured a lot of gratuitous violence against women. A lot of actresses from that time have mentioned how women's roles in movies were terrible during this period because they were only the supportive wife or girlfriend and there was often a lot of rape scenes. CC is a man from that era so it doesn't surprise me he would write Wolverine like that. Even without the backstories, if you read those early issues of UXM, Wolverine has no idea how to talk to women. He's always calling them "broad" or "frail" so he was definitely not meant to be a very enlightened character.
I didn't realize Jean/Logan is gaining traction from new comic fans. I can see the general public seeing them as more of a thing because of the movies but didn't realize comic fans were also being converted into Jean/Logan shippers. Hopefully '97 and future films will reverse that tide.

[whitecrown]

Sony is the one responsible for developing that game not Marvel. If Scott and Jean are a couple in mcu, no one would even care about what happens in that game

But Marvel must have some sort of influence or control over how their characters are used right? Sony has the rights to make the game but does that mean they can do anything to the characters? There aren't any Marvel writers working on the story?

[Darth_Caedus]

I didn't mean to imply you. I was just chiming in. But, yeah. Logan had definitely moved on from Jean and and fell in love with Mariko. I do remember the back-up story in 'Classic.' CC was fleshing out the whole Logan/Jean thing from the early ANAD days. I didn't like it personally. CC wrote Logan as predatory in my eyes. She said no, please to him and he still would not listen to her, I think CC was going for seductive, but it came off as creepy to me. I think the pairing was definitely more popular with movie fans than comic fans at the time. Fans were still rooting for Scott and Jeans marriage if I remember clearly. Even though there were still people still holding onto the Maddy/Scott mess. But Jean/Logan pairing seemed to gain traction with newer comic fans.

Most people that I know of really don't like that pairing. It has its fans for sure but ScottxJean is still more popular. The current X-Office has one Jogan shipper. The rest are Jott die hards.

[NearlyEnough]

The love triangle kinda ruins Jean, either have her fully commit to Scott and by that I mean get over Logan and make explicitly clear that she only sees him as a friend and only has romantic feelings for Scott or let Scott move on and be with someone else. It's honestly pathetic to have a wife who has feelings for a creepy ugly manlet.

[Darth_Caedus]

But Marvel must have some sort of influence or control over how their characters are used right? Sony has the rights to make the game but does that mean they can do anything to the characters? There aren't any Marvel writers working on the story?

Actually no, Marvel writers aren't working on the game. And besides it's not like whatever happens in that is going to translate into comics anyway otherwise Peter and MJ would've still been together

[Darth_Caedus]

The love triangle kinda ruins Jean, either have her fully commit to Scott and by that I mean get over Logan and make explicitly clear that she only sees him as a friend and only has romantic feelings for Scott or let Scott move on and be with someone else. It's honestly pathetic to have a wife who has feelings for a creepy ugly manlet.

In 616, Scott has always been her first choice, Scott loved Emma for sure but even then he was always thinking about Jean lol. Nothing can stand between those two for long

[whitecrown]

They had Wanda play up that though in uncanny avengers where she was basically all "boo hoo mutants get over it" and the sibling stuff, you gotta remember this stuff was written in the 80's 70's etc where things like bullying and light racism wasn't a big deal.

Now I'm not excusing it (being a black man I definitely won't) but the writers thought nothing of this type of stuff

That's true, it would have been normal back then like Wolverine's advances on Jean when he first meets her. The 60s comics especially can be jarring in certain moments like one where Sue seems revolted by the idea that Medusa isn't just some freak of nature. Then there's the fact that Roy Thomas wanted Sunfire to join the X-Men but Stan said no because he still held negative feelings towards the Japanese after WWII.

[Neocide]

They have control over story etc for the game same with the spiderman games. Which imo makes me think they have a fondness for the pairing due to the movies

[Darth_Caedus]

They have control over story etc for the game same with the spiderman games. Which imo makes me think they have a fondness for the pairing due to the movies

Do they really have control over it?

[whitecrown]

Actually no, Marvel writers aren't working on the game. And besides it's not like whatever happens in that is going to translate into comics anyway otherwise Peter and MJ would've still been together

Huh. That's really odd that Marvel gives these licenses out with their classic characters to Sony or any other company and they can technically do whatever they want with these characters with no one overseeing anything. Disney in particular is super protective of their IPs and double checks every detail to make sure nothing is tarnishing their reputation. I assumed the plot for Wolverine was supposed to suggest what Marvel was planning with the X-Men but you're right that Spider-Man's game proved that Peter and MJ aren't necessarily a thing in the comics even if they are in the movies.

[whitecrown]

They have control over story etc for the game same with the spiderman games. Which imo makes me think they have a fondness for the pairing due to the movies

You mean Sony or Marvel has control?

[Refrax5]

But isn't that what the X-Men did to Wanda in Children's Crusade? That's why I don't get the hysterical reactions to the Avengers' actions because X-Men fans were fine with what the X-Men tried to do to Wanda. Shouldn't it be tit for tat?

We'll just have to agree to disagree because I disagree with how you characterized Steve as a racist cop. Scott claiming that Wanda being a mutant and thus her fate should be decided by the X-Men feels more "racist" than Steve wanting to take Hope into custody so they could stop the Phoenix. Ideally both teams should have worked together but there was too much mistrust and bad writing as was par for the course in this era.

Logan was a murderer but he changed over the years which is why Claremont characterized him as Xavier's biggest success. Scott had the opposite trajectory.

Logan is still a murderer and a rage fueled psycho. He just joined the authorities.

Scott rarely ever resorted to lethal force and only did so when it was a last resort. You just don't like the character and are hijacking this thread with the most ridiculous read or this material. Everything you're accusing Scott of, Logan has done and continues to do a thousand times worse and for less reason. This isn't about morally right. It's about you thinking that reprehensible behavior is acceptable if you're on the side of the authorities and heroic behavior is evil if the hero is mean to the racist police.

Steve Rogers was always a two-faced hypocrite. But some people ignore wrongdoing for anyone with a badge or a flag and vilify civil rights leaders because they don't fall in line.

[Darth_Caedus]

You're all waking up my pessimistic side. Ok then Scott is FUBAR and there's no point in being a fan of him anymore