Cyclops/Scott Summers Appreciation 2024

[NearlyEnough]

It was the beginning of a change in him in that series, as I recall, and I'm pretty sure vampires are as sentient as any human or mutant.

Even if we only go by the MCU version, is Steve "dark and edgy" in those movies because he kills well into the present day, machine gunning the guys attacking the helicarrier? Hulk kills a bunch of guys and Thor and Steve are joking about it. Tony kills plenty of people in that movie.

Cyclops, not counting being possessed, I can't recall him ever directly killing anybody. Why is he Magneto 2.0 and "dark and edgy" when these other characters aren't? Why is Wolverine, a mass murderer who continues to kill, considered Xavier's greatest success when Scott has crossed some lines in extreme situations, but rarely allows for lethal force? It doesn't make any sense and is a wild double standard. Scott has only ever broken the law or done something dark to protect his people from extinction and, even then, he used restraint. Wolverine kills people all the time because he flies into a rage or because he decides they deserve it. He's hardly some paragon of Xavier's dream. He's always been a murderer and never stopped killing. I like Wolverine, but the guy is definitely not some virtuous boy scout.

Wolverine being some kind of moral paragon has always been stupid, dude is a mass-murderer, an *******, and pretty stupid, he didn't make a single right decision during the decimation era and his childish tantrum put mutantkind in even more danger, luckily Scott was there because if that 200yo man-child were the leader of mutantkind there would be like 10 of them right now.

Cyclops is mutantkind's greatest success, he's outgrown Xavier and Magneto and became a greater man than them, doing things his own way, the right way, those calling him Magneto 2.0 are either illiterate or just don't know what they're talking about, he's never been antagonistic toward humans, he only attacked those who wanted to wipe them out, even during the time everyone hated him for no reason all he was doing was save innocent mutants around the world and protest peacefully but the traitors at the school were having problems connecting their brain cells.





Another aspect that is often overlooked is how much of a better person he is than his so-called friends, they were quick to turn their backs on him the moment he was involuntarily possessed by a cosmic entity, they shat on him, wished he was dead and ruined his reputation, but not him, even though Scott had many reasons to hate and never talk to them again, or worse, treat them the way they treated him, he still treated them with respect, a respect they certainly didn't deserve.

[Ra-El]

To me most of the things people are accusing or defending Cyclops here are part of why I like the character so much.
He turning Dark Phoenix in AvX to me is less important than the aftermath of it, when Beast told him about all consequences of that bad event, Cyclops expressed regret for all the death and suffering caused but that he also would do everything again knowing it would end up restarting the mutant species.

It was a great character moment, he could very easily blamed the Phoenix or the Avengers, and they were in part responsible, but Cyclops didn't try to excuse himself from the responsibility.

[Darth_Caedus]

Dark Phoenix Cyclops.jpg
He looked great as DP though

[Darth_Caedus]

If the Avengers and the traitors didn’t antagonize him so much, Scott wouldn’t have lost control of the Phoenix, that’s a fact, I don’t care what Marvel says to excuse their bad writing, Scott was just making the world a better place and the Avengers couldn’t accept the fact that he made them irrelevant.

Scott was the last one standing not because of his connection with Jean but because he’s the mutant with the strongest will, if any X-Men character were to be a green lantern it would be Cyclops.

The whole Bendis and O5 era was a total fucking disaster. Don't let that guy touch any franchise ever again. Unfortunately he also got the opportunity to ruin Superman and his mythos too

[Darth_Caedus]

Namor used to be a character I liked a lot as an FF fan until he got bundled in with the X-Men and I started to despise him by association.

Always hated Namor. An arrogant douchebag running around almost naked

[Darth_Caedus]

No, he was never supposed to contain that power; it was always meant for Hope. It was what she was born for. Scott getting the PF was a fluke and he was starting to lose it before that final battle with the Avengers. Yes he may have done some good but all of the P5 were being corrupted and doing f--ed up things as well, including Scott who literally said he was a god and was acting like he was above anything. He started to become power hungry which is why he tried to kill Emma bc h wanted it all for himself and hats the moment he lost any humanity he had and went completely dark. Scott was never going to be a stable Phoenix host. What would up happening was inevitable

The problem is Scott was villanized for being possessed by a cosmic entity by his so called friends. They didn't have a problem with it when Jean was the one who became Dark Phoenix but suddenly Storm of all people is like no Cyke was a mutant Hitler or something. It's like the Apocalypse Now movie. Everyone's doing war crimes and **** but Colonel Kurtz is called evil because he chops ups a few heads lol.

[xiyon]

If the Avengers and the traitors didn’t antagonize him so much, Scott wouldn’t have lost control of the Phoenix, that’s a fact, I don’t care what Marvel says to excuse their bad writing, Scott was just making the world a better place and the Avengers couldn’t accept the fact that he made them irrelevant.

Scott was the last one standing not because of his connection with Jean but because he’s the mutant with the strongest will, if any X-Men character were to be a green lantern it would be Cyclops.

Mostly true, but what everyone else was doing was speeding up the process. And there was more to attacking Emma than just being power hungry - saying that loses enough context that it might as well be a lie.

Yeah, I'm with gray on this. I think it was only a matter of time for the P5 to lose control-- even Cyke-- as they were never meant to host the PF in the first place. The Avengers + traitors antagonizing PhoenixClops did only serve to accelerate the process.

Emma had already cracked, and was openly talking about burning the world down. In that moment, everything good AND bad inside Scott came into agreement - The Phoenix was longing to be whole, Emma needed to have the power taken from her for the good of everyone else, and he was stinging from her admission of betrayal (and mining the memories of a cannibal for the "steak sauce" was a pretty twisted touch to drive home how far she was already gone). But, as you say, he was a very imperfect host, and holding that much, especially under the strain he was under, was more than he could handle.

Gillen was too foxing good during that era. Dude really, really did his best to make sense of AvX, moreso than the main event writers did.

-------

Again, I don't know for sure if it was intentional or not, but we do have X-Editors (in particular, JDW) and writers explicitly stating that they found Cyke villainous during that era---- but somehow failing to portray Cyke as such-- which caused a lot of confusion.

Like, why portray Cyke as making, if not the most morally correct, then at least the most justifiable choices? Or conversely, writing the X-Men making dubious decisions?

Stopping a murder cloud --- even if a religious object to the Inhumans --- was bad because... why again? I'm not sure what the most historically-accurate analogy is, but I'll throw the Crusades there (or at least the point of it) and raise the question: is religious belief sufficient to justify mass murder? The X-Men certainly seemed to believe so (which did not make any sense) in their support of the Inhumans...

Logan, the paragon of "think of the children!", was willing to murder Tyke on JGS grounds because... why again? And nobody -- not even Storm, supposedly known for her compassion -- called him out for it because...why again???

Cyke was really supposed to be the evil / villainous one in all of this?

I don't even mind Schism, as the storyline did raise a good point: while Cyke believed he was only training the kids to be prepared "for the worst case scenario", does that mean the kids couldn't be prepared for life after Utopia, in particular because Cyke was already convinced the PF would come to save them? Problem was, Aaron didn't follow-through it-- he instead started his own kids book, and had the kids encounter numerous threats. I don't know-- maybe show the kids that stayed on Utopia to have PTSD or something.

I chalk a lot of what happened in the 2010s up to bad writing / editorial placing the state of the franchise in a really bad situation. There were so many opportunities to show Cyke being wrong, but it never manifested, so Cyke just simply continued to be proven right.

That said, Hickman outright ignoring all the bad was also shoddy writing in of itself.

[Darth_Caedus]

Cyclops was right in that entire time because everyone else was acting like hypocrites. I'm really really glad that Xavier turned out to be the true monster in the FotHoX and RotPoX because it makes the likes of Logan and Storm preaching about what a saint he was even more ridiculous. Pax Utopia

[xiyon]

The whole Bendis and O5 era was a total fucking disaster. Don't let that guy touch any franchise ever again. Unfortunately he also got the opportunity to ruin Superman and his mythos too

Ugh, I don't know what's worse, to be honest.

Bringing the O5 to the present or bringing them to the present AND not have any lasting consequences beyond, what, Cyke being friends with Kamala and Iceman being openly gay? Nothing quite universe-altering with lasting consequences?

Is Wifi even still here or was he put back in his box already in favor of the OG? Did Wifi even get to have (mis)adventures with Hope????

Granted, I've dropped the X-Books completely a few issues into Hickman's X-Men run-- after I realized this was a whole load of shite waiting to be gone / rebooted in a few years' time, so what do I know.

---

Honestly, the more I think about the upcoming X-Men run with Cyke in a leadership role..... the less interested I'm becoming. It might be because of it using the end of Krakoa as a set-up / starting point. It might be because, Magik aside, the line-up doesn't really feel interesting. It might be because I just don't have any faith in comic book writers now.

In any case, I'm just hoping to be surprised-- the way '97 surprised me, certain rushed storylines aside.

Cyclops was right in that entire time because everyone else was acting like hypocrites. I'm really really glad that Xavier turned out to be the true monster in the FotHoX and RotPoX because it makes the likes of Logan and Storm preaching about what a saint he was even more ridiculous. Pax Utopia

Pretty much. At certain points, I actually wanted Cyke to be proven wrong. I think the only one that managed to make it convincing was Si Spurrier's Legion, but my memory is hazy now of why, exactly. And Gillen, funnily enough: Gillen actually showed the consequences of Cyke focusing too much on Hope / thwarting extinction over his own personal relationships, that he ignored Emma when she needed him the most (Fear Itself) and thus opened the door for Namor to enter. In a twist of irony, Emma -- unlike Jean -- was shown to have enough self-control to not progress things with their side-man despite having all the reason to do so (Cyke literally prioritizing Hope over her), that it took both Unit's manipulation and the cosmic fire turkey to make those urges reality was all sorts of bonkers, and only served to feed the Scemma fans, who appreciated Emma's loyalty, divine intervention notwithstanding.

But I digress. All the other writers really fumbled the "Cyke is a villain!" and/or "Cyke wasn't right!" angle bad, to the point that the X-Office even had to write Cyke calling himself out in front of Wifi to try to drive home the stake.

[The92Ghost]

Woah, the amount of hate on Storm here and here I wanted to drop in and check how Cyk fans were doing with the X-Men '97 show...

[Darth_Caedus]

Ugh, I don't know what's worse, to be honest.

Bringing the O5 to the present or bringing them to the present AND not have any lasting consequences beyond, what, Cyke being friends with Kamala and Iceman being openly gay? Nothing quite universe-altering with lasting consequences?

Is Wifi even still here or was he put back in his box already in favor of the OG? Did Wifi even get to have (mis)adventures with Hope????

Granted, I've dropped the X-Books completely a few issues into Hickman's X-Men run-- after I realized this was a whole load of shite waiting to be gone / rebooted in a few years' time, so what do I know.

---

Honestly, the more I think about the upcoming X-Men run with Cyke in a leadership role..... the less interested I'm becoming. It might be because of it using the end of Krakoa as a set-up / starting point. It might be because, Magik aside, the line-up doesn't really feel interesting. It might be because I just don't have any faith in comic book writers now.

In any case, I'm just hoping to be surprised-- the way '97 surprised me, certain rushed storylines aside.




Pretty much. At certain points, I actually wanted Cyke to be proven wrong. I think the only one that managed to make it convincing was Si Spurrier's Legion, but my memory is hazy now of why, exactly. And Gillen, funnily enough: Gillen actually showed the consequences of Cyke focusing too much on Hope / thwarting extinction over his own personal relationships, that he ignored Emma when she needed him the most (Fear Itself) and thus opened the door for Namor to enter. In a twist of irony, Emma -- unlike Jean -- was shown to have enough self-control to not progress things with their side-man despite having all the reason to do so (Cyke literally prioritizing Hope over her), that it took both Unit's manipulation and the cosmic fire turkey to make those urges reality was all sorts of bonkers, and only served to feed the Scemma fans, who appreciated Emma's loyalty, divine intervention notwithstanding.

But I digress. All the other writers really fumbled the "Cyke is a villain!" and/or "Cyke wasn't right!" angle bad, to the point that the X-Office even had to write Cyke calling himself out in front of Wifi to try to drive home the stake.

That's bendis for you. TBF I haven't been a fan of how Cyclops has been portrayed since the end of AvX: Consequences. And about Hickman, I can come up with better and weirder ideas while on a psychedelic trip than he could ever dream up, and he just can't execute his ideas in a satisfying way. Never liked Krkaoa, never will and what he and his pals did to Scott was somehow even worse than the treatment he got in Fox movies.

About the upcoming relaunch, I'm trying to stay as optimistic as possible. Don't like the roster other than Cyke, Mags and Yana, but at least I'm sure that Jed is a Cyclops fan, Iike Fraction.
The entirety of AvX and what came after it should not be addressed again because the franchise was at its lowest back then. Now about Emma, I'll always be a Jott fan, but I can't help but think that Emma loved Scott in ways that Jean never did. Don't know what to say.

[Darth_Caedus]

Woah, the amount of hate on Storm here and here I wanted to drop in and check how Cyk fans were doing with the X-Men '97 show...

No I don't hate her, Goddess be praised I truly love the character, but the way Storm and many other X-Men treated Scott during and post AvX was atrocious. It's not her fault though. About the '97 show, he's been great so far but still has a messed up personal life. Bro can't catch a break

[xiyon]

Woah, the amount of hate on Storm here and here I wanted to drop in and check how Cyk fans were doing with the X-Men '97 show...

Not meaning to come off antagonistic or anything, but if you’re expecting cultlike Storm worship in a Cyclops appreciation thread--- a thread where:

1) the fanbase is at odds over which era is the “best” / definitive Cyclops and cyclically holds debates (at best) and outright petty arguments (at worst) over such, and
2) the fanbase appreciates a character known for self-deprecation, self-criticism, and placing unreasonable amounts of responsibility and accountability on himself….

I… don’t really know what to tell you. Truly.

We kinda criticize all characters / writers in this thread, or point out where there is shoddy writing or inconsistencies in said writing, Cyclops included, and just harp for better writing-- even if it means, y'know, showing Cyke to be an actual villain (in the case of the 2010s).

[Darth_Caedus]

RCO006_1476844926.jpg
"But Emma turned Cyclops into mutant hitler"

[Mantis-Ray]

Woah, the amount of hate on Storm here and here I wanted to drop in and check how Cyk fans were doing with the X-Men '97 show...

Its not about Storm hate, its just Storm unfortunately also gets poorly a lot written to facilitate events and stories. Again I bring up the Inhumanity era, Storm just allowing Black Bolt to execute Cyclops is apart of the general mishandling of the character during that time where she's turned into a suck-up for the Inhumans and can't call them out on their bullshit.

A lot of X-Men suffered from being forced to placate the Inhumans and Medusa basically turning them into mutant Uncle Toms which wound up making Cyclops the more likable character cause he was the only one taking an actual stand against the Inhumans which was all entirely unintended by editorial as they wanted Scott to be a villain not an unsung hero.

Plus Schism would have made way more sense if it was Storm vs Cyclops, like the two actual leaders of the X-Men having a dispute. But alas Storm was over in the Black Panther books so the position fell to Wolverine because of his massive popularity than any actual merit.