Cyclops/Scott Summers Appreciation 2024

[whitecrown]

You're literally ok with no mutants being born. Decimation reduced the number of their population to 198 and they had become an endangered species. So there's nothing wrong with a minority group eventually dying out as long as they play nice and heroic?

This is not trolling. I genuinely didn't see what was the big deal. Mutants weren't being born. They weren't being exterminated except in terms of evolution. How is that different from humans eventually being replaced with mutants? Isn't that the human fear that eventually they'll stop being born and mutants will be the last race standing? Why is that considered offensive but humans overtaking mutants again isn't?

[Darth_Caedus]

Need I remind you who won the duel in UXM 201, considered one of the greatest scenes of the series?

Also if we're going by shows and media, one could argue Wolverine is considered more the X-Men's leader than anyone else.

He only lost that duel because of Maddie though

[Darth_Caedus]

This is not trolling. I genuinely didn't see what was the big deal. Mutants weren't being born. They weren't being exterminated except in terms of evolution. How is that different from humans eventually being replaced with mutants? Isn't that the human fear that eventually they'll stop being born and mutants will be the last race standing? Why is that considered offensive but humans overtaking mutants again isn't?

Mutants replacing humans is a natural process that might take millennia not something done with a few words that happened over night

[whitecrown]

Sinister has more connections to Scott than any other X-Man. They're relationship has been the forefront of many stories. Sabretooth didn't even appear in an X-Men comic for the first time yet he's Logan's number one enemy. I thought you once liked Cyclops but it's becoming more clear now that you just want him to be there, do nothing and have no personality and story arc for his own

But I don't see how Sinister stole anything from Cyclops. If Sinister was using Wolverine to combine his DNA with Jean to create the ultimate mutant, then yes, he's stolen that from Cyclops. But he's just experimenting on getting mutant powers and immortality for himself. The former has always been a Sinister thing in general concerned with all mutants, not just Cyclops. The latter is a Wolverine thing. Cyclops cannot provide that. I don't see how it affects Cyclops because that was never Sinister's relationship with him. Forge is also a captive and being used by Sinister to keep the mutants in check but that also doesn't steal from Cyclops.

The relationship thing I can understand (although those saying Jean is deliberately cucking Scott doesn't make sense since she doesn't even know him here) but the Sinister argument does not make sense to me. Like I said, I went back through the leaks specifically to see if there was any merit or not in these arguments and I was surprised to see that Sinister's relationship with Wolverine really has nothing to do with the relationship he has with Scott. He's interested in Wolverine's healing factor but not his bloodline or family lineage. With Scott, he was never interested in his optic blasts alone, he was interested in Scott's DNA in general.

As for Sabretooth, he was designed as John Byrne's choice for an unmasked Wolverine. When he learned that Wolverine already had been unmasked by Cockrum and given a face, Byrne decided to reuse that design for Sabretooth so there was always a link.

[NearlyEnough]

Need I remind you who won the duel in UXM 201, considered one of the greatest scenes of the series?

Also if we're going by shows and media, one could argue Wolverine is considered more the X-Men's leader than anyone else.

Need I remind you that no one but Storm fans consider it one of the greatest scenes of the series? Or that Maddie was psychically manipulating Scott to make him lose? Or that his mind was not there? Or that a duel has nothing to do with actual leadership?

X-Men 97 is really popular right now and everyone sees that Cyclops is the leader, even Marvel calls him mutantkind’s ultimate leader, Storm is not even in the conversation, with all her displays of abysmal leadership I’m not even sure she’s the second best leader, you should focus your efforts on fighting Xavier fans or Magneto fans or even Logan fans for the second best leader position because Cyclops is on a whole another level.

[whitecrown]

He only lost that duel because of Maddie though

That's true, but the point stands that Ororo proved she could run the team during that whole period while powerless. I always considered Scott and Ororo to be equal leaders, as shown in the 90s with the blue/gold teams, but it was the dark age that made me reconsider about Scott. Ororo has thankfully never been character assassinated as so many were in the 2000s but I think that was mainly because she wasn't a man so she wasn't considered important enough to butcher as a character. She was just sidelined again and again.

[Darth_Caedus]

Other appreciation threads: Look how great our fave is!
Cyclops' appreciation thread: No you have no right to be a Cyclops fan! You cannot complain about anything!

[whitecrown]

Mutants replacing humans is a natural process that might take millennia not something done with a few words that happened over night

That's also true. But I still never understood the X-Men's hysterical response to it. And like I've said before, Scott of all people should have been more naturally sympathetic towards Wanda. I'd have to look back at the O5 days but I remember the team was fairly open to the idea of Wanda and Pietro joining them because they knew they weren't naturally evil like the others. I think Scott held that same sentiment. He gave Pietro the benefit of the doubt during the real AvX (UXM 45) which is why I think it's OOC for him to suddenly brand Wanda the ultimate evil years later. In fact, out of all the O5, Jean was the least happy about Wanda and Pietro joining the team as she considered Wanda a rival in terms of looks.

[Darth_Caedus]

That's true, but the point stands that Ororo proved she could run the team during that whole period while powerless. I always considered Scott and Ororo to be equal leaders, as shown in the 90s with the blue/gold teams, but it was the dark age that made me reconsider about Scott. Ororo has thankfully never been character assassinated as so many were in the 2000s but I think that was mainly because she wasn't a man so she wasn't considered important enough to butcher as a character. She was just sidelined again and again.

Scott proved himself to be mutantkind's most capable leader during what you call "Dark Ages". Ororo didn't have the guts to do what is necessary to ensure the survival of an entire species. The hardest choices require the strongest wills not goodie two shoes or simpverines betraying their own race.

[whitecrown]

Scott proved himself to be mutantkind's most capable leader during what you call "Dark Ages". Ororo didn't have the guts to do what is necessary to ensure the survival of an entire species. The hardest choices require the strongest wills not goodie two shoes or simpverines betraying their own race.

I disagree but you're aware of that so we can leave that there. I don't get the race traitor accusations. Especially because that betrays exactly the same mentality that Krakoa has, that mutants can only trust mutants and everyone else is inferior. You can have genocidal mass murderers like Sinister, Apocalypse, Exodus, Selene, Shaw, Frost, Frenzy, etc. and they're all a-okay because of an x-gene. People like Steve Rogers, Peter Parker, Carol Danvers, Stephen Strange, T'Challa, etc. are the real bad guys because they don't have an x-gene. Franklin is fine because he was a mutant before Marvel realized they were going to have a child kidnapping suit on their hands and saved him via retcon but Valeria is "gene-trash." And Reed and Sue are bigots for not wanting their son taken away from them.

[whitecrown]

Need I remind you that no one but Storm fans consider it one of the greatest scenes of the series? Or that Maddie was psychically manipulating Scott to make him lose? Or that his mind was not there? Or that a duel has nothing to do with actual leadership?

X-Men 97 is really popular right now and everyone sees that Cyclops is the leader, even Marvel calls him mutantkind’s ultimate leader, Storm is not even in the conversation, with all her displays of abysmal leadership I’m not even sure she’s the second best leader, you should focus your efforts on fighting Xavier fans or Magneto fans or even Logan fans for the second best leader position because Cyclops is on a whole another level.

Claremont is the ultimate X-Men writer so I give his opinion more weight. There would be no X-Men today without him, not as we know them today. And Claremont was the ultimate Storm fan.

I believe Scott needed to devote his time to his wife and child. I understand his feeling that without Xavier, the onus is on him to lead, but even before Scott's return to the team, the X-Men were experimenting with other leaders. Besides Ororo, when she was depowered and gone, Logan told Kurt it was his duty to lead the team so there were other natural choices. Logan also said that if Kitty were older, she'd be a choice. Scott was in denial about his marriage and the last thing he needed was more of a reason to be distanced from his family which is why Ororo opposed his leadership. I don't get why Scott fans dislike this moment because it shows that Ororo does care for him and wanted what was best for him and his family. Even though she was never very close to him, she had enough respect and esteem for him that she wanted to make sure he did the right thing.

From what I've heard about Xavier now, he's become the devil. And I don't think Magneto has ever led the main X-Men team.

[Darth_Caedus]

I disagree but you're aware of that so we can leave that there. I don't get the race traitor accusations. Especially because that betrays exactly the same mentality that Krakoa has, that mutants can only trust mutants and everyone else is inferior. You can have genocidal mass murderers like Sinister, Apocalypse, Exodus, Selene, Shaw, Frost, Frenzy, etc. and they're all a-okay because of an x-gene. People like Steve Rogers, Peter Parker, Carol Danvers, Stephen Strange, T'Challa, etc. are the real bad guys because they don't have an x-gene. Franklin is fine because he was a mutant before Marvel realized they were going to have a child kidnapping suit on their hands and saved him via retcon but Valeria is "gene-trash." And Reed and Sue are bigots for not wanting their son taken away from them.

Scott wasn't working with the likes of Sinister and Apocalypse in Utopia anyway. There were some reformed villains he was working with but he didn't accept genocidal maniacs into his inner circle.

[Darth_Caedus]

Claremont is the ultimate X-Men writer so I give his opinion more weight. There would be no X-Men today without him, not as we know them today. And Claremont was the ultimate Storm fan.

I believe Scott needed to devote his time to his wife and child. I understand his feeling that without Xavier, the onus is on him to lead, but even before Scott's return to the team, the X-Men were experimenting with other leaders. Besides Ororo, when she was depowered and gone, Logan told Kurt it was his duty to lead the team so there were other natural choices. Logan also said that if Kitty were older, she'd be a choice. Scott was in denial about his marriage and the last thing he needed was more of a reason to be distanced from his family which is why Ororo opposed his leadership. I don't get why Scott fans dislike this moment because it shows that Ororo does care for him and wanted what was best for him and his family. Even though she was never very close to him, she had enough respect and esteem for him that she wanted to make sure he did the right thing.

From what I've heard about Xavier now, he's become the devil. And I don't think Magneto has ever led the main X-Men team.

Claremont hasn't been a decent writer for decades and his run with Scott as its lead was his best work anyway. Ororo loving Scott? To be honest I don't think anyone has ever truly loved and respected Scott as much as Yana and Emma

[whitecrown]

Scott wasn't working with the likes of Sinister and Apocalypse in Utopia anyway. There were some reformed villains he was working with but he didn't accept genocidal maniacs into his inner circle.

Uhh, we'll have to agree to disagree on that as well. I think Storm was right in her characterizations of that group. Namor has repeatedly called for humankind's destruction and attempted multiple surface invasions. There's a reason that Alex Ross' The Marvels explained that humanity's distrust of mutants was because of Namor killing so many humans. Magneto is Magneto, no more needs to be said about him because everyone knows. Magik is a demon sorceress and Claremont said she was pure evil. Danger is flawed A.I. who tried to kill the X-Men but is probably the most sympathetic of that group. The fake blonde is a child and horse murdering rapist and a home wrecker to boot. Colossus was possessed by a supernatural evil entity with unspeakable power.

[Darth_Caedus]

Uhh, we'll have to agree to disagree on that as well. I think Storm was right in her characterizations of that group. Namor has repeatedly called for humankind's destruction and attempted multiple surface invasions. There's a reason that Alex Ross' The Marvels explained that humanity's distrust of mutants was because of Namor killing so many humans. Magneto is Magneto, no more needs to be said about him because everyone knows. Magik is a demon sorceress and Claremont said she was pure evil. Danger is flawed A.I. who tried to kill the X-Men but is probably the most sympathetic of that group. The fake blonde is a child and horse murdering rapist and a home wrecker to boot. Colossus was possessed by a supernatural evil entity with unspeakable power.

Magneto is not a villain. What Claremont has said about Magik is irrelevant because he's not George Lucas. He was just a writer hired to work for Marvel