Cyclops/Scott Summers Appreciation 2024

[whitecrown]

Yes, nor was extinction but we got that for like 20 years.we got hit squads and bus blowing up etc. was this part of the X-Men mytho too? Things change stories change, mission statements change depending on the time

I think a change was necessary because those stories got very tired and monotonous after years of the same, but the change we did get I don't think was executed the way it should have been and was likely problematic from the start because it doesn't solve anything but runs away from the problem, if not exacerbates the problem.

Also these resurrection protocols seemed like a joke to me. I know death doesn't mean much in comic books but it felt like the X-Men decided they weren't even going to pretend to care. It's very cheap how little life matters if you can just come back anytime and churn out new body after body. There's something so dehumanizing about it to me.

[Neocide]

I mean I fit under many marginalized groups, more than I care to if I'm being honest, so I understand that there are people who are more at risk from violence and death and the desire to find a society where you're safe and not treated like a second-class citizen or slave in bondage. But Krakoa goes too far in every extreme like forcibly kidnapping mutant children from their human families because mutants belong only with mutantkind. It's a form of self-imposed segregation which I don't hear any minority or marginalized group advocate for in real life thankfully. Assimilation isn't easy but it's necessary to normalize those of us who are different and that we're here to stay. Running away to isolate ourselves based on one commonality that isn't humanity only makes it easier to be branded as "other" and "subhuman" and doesn't fix anything.

That still happens now though you go to certain cities and one side of the town has one group and another is in another spot. Like this would happen to them again. Also can you please post this kidnapping babies thing. I'm not doubting you but stuff like that is the same thing they tried to do to real establishments. Like comparing the black panthers to the KKK or calling BLM a terrorist group.

It's a way to **** on all the progress because there some bad things (or people) in power. That's every country. These books just allowed us to see it. Real world isn't as easy to spot.

[whitecrown]

That still happens now though you go to certain cities and one side of the town has one group and another is in another spot. Like this would happen to them again. Also can you please post this kidnapping babies thing. I'm not doubting you but stuff like that is the same thing they tried to do to real establishments. Like comparing the black panthers to the KKK or calling BLM a terrorist group.

It's a way to **** on all the progress because there some bad things (or people) in power. That's every country. These books just allowed us to see it. Real world isn't as easy to spot.

That's true. You can see it with the way lower-income classes are always in ghettos and how gentrification takes over certain areas. The way state districts are drawn are a problem as well as they only exacerbate this. Wasn't Franklin forcibly kidnapped by the X-Men? Back when that story premiered that's what I remember hearing and seeing and how the FF writer literally had to retcon Franklin into not being a mutant to save him. I think the X-Men actually told Sue that she was only a human and wasn't worthy of being with Franklin because he should be with his own kind. And also something passive-aggressive about how Valeria wasn't special so nobody wanted her because she was just a human.

Tbh Krakoa comes across more like the Nazis to me or any fascist government. Real world minorities do not have the power, clout, and resources that Krakoa has. They don't have resurrection protocols and warped science to bring themselves back to life if they are hurt or killed.

[Neocide]

That's true. You can see it with the way lower-income classes are always in ghettos and how gentrification takes over certain areas. The way state districts are drawn are a problem as well as they only exacerbate this. Wasn't Franklin forcibly kidnapped by the X-Men? Back when that story premiered that's what I remember hearing and seeing and how the FF writer literally had to retcon Franklin into not being a mutant to save him. I think the X-Men actually told Sue that she was only a human and wasn't worthy of being with Franklin because he should be with his own kind. And also something passive-aggressive about how Valeria wasn't special so nobody wanted her because she was just a human.

Tbh Krakoa comes across more like the Nazis to me or any fascist government. Real world minorities do not have the power, clout, and resources that Krakoa has. They don't have resurrection protocols and warped science to bring themselves back to life if they are hurt or killed.

I can't debate the ff story everyone was written badly in that and the X-Men did look like a cult there. But the writer didn't want to play with Hickmans idea on Franklin so he nixed him being a mutant. And I'm sorry I cannot compare a fictional group of victimized ppl to Nazis, I'm not ever going to go that far. Do I think they might have lost their way? Of course, but I'm not going to put a blanket statement on a WHOLE species. That's wild .

[whitecrown]

I can't debate the ff story everyone was written badly in that and the X-Men did look like a cult there. But the writer didn't want to play with Hickmans idea on Franklin so he nixed him being a mutant. And I'm sorry I cannot compare a fictional group of victimized ppl to Nazis, I'm not ever going to go that far. Do I think they might have lost their way? Of course, but I'm not going to put a blanket statement on a WHOLE species. That's wild .

I don't blame the FF writer. By Krakoa, I don't mean every mutant who lives on there is like a Nazi but the people in charge which seems to be only villains like Sinister, Apocalypse, Exodus, Shaw, Frost, Selene, Mystique, etc. and now Moira, Xavier, and Hank. Sinister especially with his experimentation and decadence comes across like one and I've heard Hank was 10x worse. Like they created a team named on the Marauders who were actual butchers and murdered countless innocents. And they're forcing the Morlocks to live on Krakoa and watch these mass-murderers be venerated on a daily basis. Even ignoring the Morlocks, since the X-Men never seemed to care for them, did they forget that the Morlocks maimed Warren? Almost killed Kurt, Peter, and Kitty? I did hear that the Morlocks, led by Callisto, were allowed to leave Krakoa and given a new safe place to live since they objected to the Marauders being there but it just goes to show that the Marauders should never have been allowed in the first place.

[Neocide]

The maurders on krakoa weren't the same. Again I can't really defend the QC Hickman decided not to worry about continuity for this story is probably the biggest mistake because you could've told stories of ppl coming to terms with ppl they don't like to try and accomplish this dream of krakoa, would have given it more weight.

[xiyon]

Cyclops: Inhumans want to use a gass to eradicate our species. I must stop them.
Marvel: What you wanna save your people from being gassed? You're literally Adolf Hitler!

I've always blamed shoddy editorial, writing, or both, in particularly when AvX hit.

Recall the sequence of events that lead to the reveal in your example. I think this was post Secret Wars, right? Where multiple X-books with spillover to Champions essentially kept harping on EvilClops and HitlerClops---- then when Marvel finally decided to reveal the big bad thing Cyke did.....

... he stood up to the Inhumans to stop them from gassing the mutants to extinction? An extinction they just recently prevented? Really, creative team...?

Even setting aside how the Avengers hijacked AvX, if the writers wanted to show Cyke "being corrupted by the Phoenix", then, idk, they should not have showed the Avengers instigating the fight on three separate occasions. Or Cyke clearly becoming uncontrolled as more of the PF got absorbed into him or him-- prior to being provoked by the Avengers multiple times--- actually try to use the PF to end or prevents wars / famine / natural disasters, etc. Like, why bother showing that at all? Show us Cyke going full paranoid authoritarian from the getgo or something.

I've made my stance clear on multiple occasions, but the reason why Utopia works while Krakoa does not was the threat of extinction. The writers of the era actually bothered showing us multiple storylines to setup the status quo--- Endangered Species, blowing up a bus of depowered kids in KYost's run, and Second Coming. Even when the X-Men moved to San Francisco, it took Pixie getting her wings mutilated and a Dark Reign crossover to setup Utopia. Even Schism had -- as others pointed out -- Scott willing to stepdown from leadership if it kept the mutants united, then allowed Wolverine (and the ilk that followed him) leave in peace, even promising to protect them if the need arose.

And I say ilk coz Aaron really didn't do his side justice-- writing the JGS staff less like heroes and more like petty exes, unlike Gillen. Hell, wasn't even there that X-Men Legacy tie-in where Logan's team were essentially okay with having Exodus assassinate Scott, and only intervened when Rogue pointed out that the kids on Utopia would be affected as well? Why bother writing an issue like that?

tl;dr -- I don't blame Hickman because the 2010s left the X-Men in a dire situation. But my dude, don't just throw cliffnotes / an anthology series at comicbook readers; actually show the setup if you're going to establish a new status quo.

The magik Scott friendship is probably my favorite thing to come out of the last era. They should always be on a team together tbh.

Same. Magik & Cyke somehow becoming besties was not what I expected, but was organic. Took years of storytelling to sell their friendship, including bonding over shared feelings of abandonment when they were at their lowest.

I don't know when we'll get Magik on the big screen, but I hope her friendship with Cyke, and the latters' utmost trust in her, remains.

[SpiderClops]

There's no way the open relationship **** wasn't mean-spirited towards Cyclops, no way. Why is Scott and Jean's relationship the only one ruined by a stupid open relationship? why aren't Rogue and Gambit hooking up with other people? I'm pretty sure Percy has admitted that he doesn't like Scott, and he probably just wanted his self-insert Wolverine to cuck him, that's all there is to it.

It's so badly written because they ignore decades of characterization and make characters behave in a way they never would, Scott would never accept to share his wife with anyone, let alone the creepy ******* who's tried to steal her from him for a long time, tried to destroy Utopia, kill Hope, kill him, talked **** about him to anyone, etc, we have a lot of evidence that shows that Scott would never accept such a stupid idea but the X-Office is plagued by Cyclops haters and writers who couldn't care less about his character like Hickman so they decided to go against common sense just so their precious Wolverine can be with the married woman he's shamelessly pursued for years despite being in a relationship, basically rewarding him for being a disgusting creep while punishing Scott.

This era has permanently ruined Scott and Jean's relationship imo, they tried to portray them as a married couple but ended up looking like glorified friends with benefits or worse, Scott is a Jean simp while she can't even be committed to him and cheated on him with Wolverine... being just one of the two men your wife loves is absolutely pathetic, that moment at the last gala when Jean leaves Scott while he's begging her to stay to tell Wolverine that she loves him is such an insult to Scott's character that I don't want to see them together ever again.

Please tell me that did not happen.

[SpiderClops]

Has Jed talked about Scott and Jean's relationship? he's talking about Scott in that picture, calling him the best X-Man, not saying that he hates them together or anything but I haven't seen him comment on their relationship, in my opinion, for their relationship to work they have to acknowledge the whole Wolverine problem and have Jean get over him, apologize to Scott and make clear that he's the only one she loves and that she doesn't feel anything for Wolverine, unless they do that many fans won't like their relationship because they can write them being a good couple and then a Wolverine fanboy writes a Jogan scene.

Btw, this is the title from the Marvel article about the new X-Men run: In Jed Mackay and Ryan Stegman's 'X-Men,' Cyclops Reignites Mutant Revolution

I hope it means that he's gonna continue Scott's character arc from before Krakoa and Rosenberg. That article says all the right things about Scott and I'd like to think that Jed had an input on that so I'm actually excited for the new era, he's also a good writer, probably the best writer of the new x-office.

Jean will never apologise to Scott about Wolverine. Jean(writers) really don't see anything wrong in that for some reason. Just look at X-Men '97. She never ever gets called out about that.

[Neocide]

Please tell me that did not happen.

It doesn't happen that way. This guy clearly remembers things his own way, she tells Scott and Logan she loves them in separate panels. She's dying Scott knows this and pleads for her not to leave him. He clearly knows she's dying.its not like he's pleading with her not to leave and she just gives a peace sign and kisses Logan. I swear some people just project their own insecurities into a character smh.

[Darth_Caedus]

And it was explored in the Jean mini that she loves them very differently. Scott is always going to be her first choice and the one she's going to end up with. Her moment with Scott was also much more romantic and with Logan it was like get the **** up and kill some people lol

[Havok83]

Cyclops being Phoenix made sense. Namor? Lmao

Cyclops didnt make any more sense than Namor.

[NearlyEnough]

It’s exactly what happened, context doesn’t make it any better. I stead of staying all her final moments with HER HUSBAND she leaves him to tell that ugly bum the same thing she told Scott, completely ruined what could’ve been a decent Jott scene.

Every Jogan scene ruins Scott and Jean’s relationship even more, both can’t exist at the same time, unless Jean gets over Wolverine her relationship with Scott will never work.

[NearlyEnough]

Cyclops didnt make any more sense than Namor.

Of course it does, Scott and the Phoenix have literally fucked, and there’s a connection between them as seen during Phoenix Endsong, also, if the Phoenix is Jean as many Jean fans claim then it makes even more sense.

[Gray Lensman]

Cyclops didnt make any more sense than Namor.

Cyclops is the one non-telepathic/omega level character I can see making even the slightest amount of sense. Not ideal, but when the proper options aren't available...well, I can begin to see it. And it requires that specific context to make sense.




Much of the attempts to villainize Scott were hampered by the Marvel Echo Chamber. The people involved in making the decision rebounded their ideas off of each other to the point they thought everything was already a done deal, and because of that failed at showing the readers who weren't part of those discussions.

Scott was Hitler for destroying a mutant targeting cloud of toxic gas? Did anyone at Marvel consider the metaphor they were setting themselves up for? I'll make the bad context even more clear - destroying a free-floating cloud of Xyklon-B, or perhaps to remove even that minuscule amount of subtlety, a roaming Auschwitz, and then claiming that doing so makes one Hitler has got to be the mos tone-deaf metaphor I can imagine. It sounds like something modern Neo-Nazis would come up with.

In AvX, the damn thing starts because Cap makes the boneheaded decision to ask Wolverine of all people how to talk peacefully with Cyclops. I mean, Storm was still married to T'Challa at that point, no one considered asking her? Rachel was working in the same damned building! Not to mention.....Rachel was a former Phoenix host and had stayed in control for YEARS! But back to the opening, it comes across as Steve showing up and asking "I need to figure out how to keep this from escalating into a big fight. Do you have any ideas - Man Looking For That Very Fight?" Any pretense that the Avengers could be seen as heroes got jettisoned for me when Cap launches yet another attack on the X-Men because......drum roll please......Colossus managed to negotiate an end to a conflict the Avengers were losing. If that is your excuse for starting a fight, and well, the fan theory that Stevil had replaced Cap earlier than accepted canon starts to make a LOT of sense. The case wasn't helped by the Avengers basically adopting the X-Men's initial plan at the end. Creating a problem, then insisting you are the only ones who can fix it? THOSE are the actions of a dictator, and real life history shows it.

Even the claim that Scott should have given up the Phoenix falls flat to me - because there was never any proof that it was possible beyond writers saying so in interviews. You want me to believe it is possible? Then you need to SHOW me one of the other 4 actually doing so, in the actual story rather than post publication interviews.

I won''t claim that the Scott of this era was heroic - he had been forced to stop doing the right thing and instead do the necessary thing. But that doesn't rise to the level of villainy. Not even close.