Kurt Wagner/Nightcrawler Appreciation 2024

[From The Shadows]

And more.

[Hypestyle]

And more.

wow what's all this from?

[whitecrown]

Agreed. I mean during Morrison days people were getting secondary mutations and power upgrades. So, it goes as far back as even then, but Kurt always seemed limited to his teleportation. Sometimes he think Marvel is afraid that Kurt has too many gifts. I think I vaguely heard something like this that was revealed about editorial.

Byrne had this issue. He was a big proponent of mutants only having one power. I think Wolverine worked for him because Byrne wanted to establish that Wolverine was not really a mutant but the first in a new species because his father, Sabretooth, was a mutant. Wolverine would have inherited his power and then been a mutant himself because he had his own extra ability to account for having a healing factor and animal senses.

The issue with Kurt was that between his unusual anatomy, he could also teleport and stick to walls. I think sticking to walls could be considered part of his anatomy but the teleportation was technically considered an extra ability by Byrne, not even accounting for his shadow blending.

Byrne also felt that Kurt was overexposed in those early Claremont/Cockrum issues since Kurt was Cockrum's fav. You'll notice that when Byrne comes, Kurt's screentime slightly dwindles and Wolverine gets more exposure as Wolverine was a Canadian like Byrne. When Wolverine was supposed to be scrapped from the book, it was Byrne who said no. Kurt appeared on more covers as well during the Cockrum era.

[whitecrown]

wow what's all this from?

It's from Second Coming when Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Colossus, Psylocke, Archangel, X-23, and Magik were part of the Alpha Team.

[whitecrown]

I'm just randomly posting things right now with Kurt. I always loved Kurt and Betsy fighting together.

I really liked this team-up of Kurt, Kitty, Betsy, and Jubilee. I wonder if this was the team Claremont planned to use for his original Dark Wolverine Saga when Logan and Jean were brainwashed by The Hand.

It was Jubilee's only appearance in X-Men Forever (she was supposed to appear at Logan's funeral like Betsy did but apparently the artist was not a Jubilee fan and didn't draw her).

[From The Shadows]

Byrne had this issue. He was a big proponent of mutants only having one power. I think Wolverine worked for him because Byrne wanted to establish that Wolverine was not really a mutant but the first in a new species because his father, Sabretooth, was a mutant. Wolverine would have inherited his power and then been a mutant himself because he had his own extra ability to account for having a healing factor and animal senses.

The issue with Kurt was that between his unusual anatomy, he could also teleport and stick to walls. I think sticking to walls could be considered part of his anatomy but the teleportation was technically considered an extra ability by Byrne, not even accounting for his shadow blending.

Byrne also felt that Kurt was overexposed in those early Claremont/Cockrum issues since Kurt was Cockrum's fav. You'll notice that when Byrne comes, Kurt's screentime slightly dwindles and Wolverine gets more exposure as Wolverine was a Canadian like Byrne. When Wolverine was supposed to be scrapped from the book, it was Byrne who said no. Kurt appeared on more covers as well during the Cockrum era.

Yeah, I heard a lot about this stuff. There was supposedly a feud between Byrne and Cockrum. But why that so many years later, after Byrne he is still being limited. I was tickled pink about Kurts's night vision was addressed again in 'Uncanny Spiderman'. I haven't heard it mention or even uses it since 1999. Actually, I am pretty sure that issue it was a newly revealed ability of his. Wasn't mentioned in the Marvel handbooks or in the comics as far as I can tell.

I really liked this team-up of Kurt, Kitty, Betsy, and Jubilee. I wonder if this was the team Claremont planned to use for his original Dark Wolverine Saga when Logan and Jean were brainwashed by The Hand.

It was Jubilee's only appearance in X-Men Forever (she was supposed to appear at Logan's funeral like Betsy did but apparently the artist was not a Jubilee fan and didn't draw her).

I don't know what team he had in mind, but this certainly would be a good one. He is especially close to Kurt, Kitty and Jubilee, Forgot to say the art is gorgeous.

[whitecrown]

Yeah, I heard a lot about this stuff. There was supposedly a feud between Byrne and Cockrum. But why that so many years later, after Byrne he is still being limited. I was tickled pink about Kurts's night vision was addressed again in 'Uncanny Spiderman'. I haven't heard it mention or even uses it since 1999. Actually, I am pretty sure that issue it was a newly revealed ability of his. Wasn't mentioned in the Marvel handbooks or in the comics as far as I can tell.



I don't know what team he had in mind, but this certainly would be a good one. He is especially close to Kurt, Kitty and Jubilee, Forgot to say the art is gorgeous.

I didn't know they had a feud. I thought they respected each other. Byrne is generally very respectful about Cockrum (which is saying something considering how acerbic Byrne usually is to everyone else) minus pointing out how he thought Nightcrawler was hogging the book when Cockrum was around. While Claremont loved Kurt, he seemed even more into Storm, Wolverine, and Kitty so I think that trio took precedent over Kurt. I always thought Colossus was the most neglected out of the core group. The night vision doesn't sound familiar to me so it could indeed be a new ability. I can't remember if the handbooks ever mentioned it or not.

Yes, I also loved the art. Would have liked to have seen more X-Men Forever issues with the artist Sana Takeda. She mostly worked on X-23 and Ms. Marvel. I know Colossus would have been involved in The Dark Wolverine Saga since he was the one who would rip out Wolverine's claws. My personal guess is that Kurt and Kitty wouldn't have been included since they were still part of Excalibur and not part of the Blue/Gold team lineups.

[Proxy]

Agreed. I mean during Morrison days people were getting secondary mutations and power upgrades. So, it goes as far back as even then, but Kurt always seemed limited to his teleportation. Sometimes he think Marvel is afraid that Kurt has too many gifts. I think I vaguely heard something like this that was revealed about editorial.

Yeah, I heard a lot about this stuff. There was supposedly a feud between Byrne and Cockrum. But why that so many years later, after Byrne he is still being limited. I was tickled pink about Kurts's night vision was addressed again in 'Uncanny Spiderman'. I haven't heard it mention or even uses it since 1999. Actually, I am pretty sure that issue it was a newly revealed ability of his. Wasn't mentioned in the Marvel handbooks or in the comics as far as I can tell.

I could see the logic that Kurt had too many abilities. While none of them are particularly flashy (bamfing being the exception) in combination, they are a force to be reckoned with; especially at street level. But I don’t think it’s necessary to hold him back anymore. As mentioned, other mutants have far surpassed the limitations they once had and even if Kurt was consistently using his full skill set, he still wouldn’t be as OP as some are now.

I can’t remember from where, but I know I’ve seen Kurt’s night vision brought up before but I think you may be right, it wasn’t talked about as an ‘official’ ability before Spurrier. Kurt mentioned it to people (I think he told someone that the darkest night was like high noon to him) but it’s not on his list of abilities, another skill I’d love to be used on a consistent basis.

Kurt’s a walking set of contradictions, he has all the physicality and skills to be the ultimate assassin, yet is the least likely to ever walk that path.

[whitecrown]

Kurt’s a walking set of contradictions, he has all the physicality and skills to be the ultimate assassin, yet is the least likely to ever walk that path.

I haven't been following this Krakoa era but in other threads, people were saying he was going around killing and maiming people! Is this true?!?

[From The Shadows]

I haven't been following this Krakoa era but in other threads, people were saying he was going around killing and maiming people! Is this true?!?

I saw just one scan of a panel that showed Kurt bamfing someone out of a spaceship leaving that person to die. I don't know more as I didn't read the series. I didn't see him doing it to anyone else so maybe there were other scenes with more people? It didn't make sense since the whole reason Kurt became 'Uncanny Spiderman' was to escape all the killing he did while brainwashed.

[From The Shadows]

Fanart.

[From The Shadows]

Kurts speed, punches, dodging bullets, lazers...

[From The Shadows]

Fanart.

[whitecrown]

I saw just one scan of a panel that showed Kurt bamfing someone out of a spaceship leaving that person to die. I don't know more as I didn't read the series. I didn't see him doing it to anyone else so maybe there were other scenes with more people? It didn't make sense since the whole reason Kurt became 'Uncanny Spiderman' was to escape all the killing he did while brainwashed.

I hope people were only talking about what he was doing while brainwashed then, because I'd hate to see Nightcrawler go down the path that Xavier and Beast are currently on.

[Proxy]

I haven't been following this Krakoa era but in other threads, people were saying he was going around killing and maiming people! Is this true?!?

Kurt was turned into a monster by Margali and under the control of orchis to kill some high ranking humans. When he was cured/rescued he left Krakoa and became uncanny Spider-Man. (You can see a break down of this at the beginning of this thread for more info)

The panel where Kurt chucks a random thug into space is from Gerry Duggans fall of the house of X and mostly everyone hates it because it’s so out of character (Kurt hasn’t intentionally killed anyone in around 50 years of his existence) and it made no sense since his whole arc, including the spider-man one was a message of hope, healing and seeing the good in humanity.

That one stupid panel is going down the memory hole of bad writing decisions.