Madelyne Pryor 2024: Appreciation, Aspirations and Cheers for Her

[EmeraldGladiator]

Guys, let's be honest. One of the writers forgot that Maddie gave birth at the X-Mansion, and only remembered that Maddie, Scott, and the baby were in Alaska. That's the real reason for the discrepancy. But notice Scott's words, "Sometimes I wish she didn't (exist)" Again, That's low for Scott.

--jthree

Scott was scum even in his own book. I was actively rooting Alex on as the Goblin Prince when he leaped on the back of the demon driven carriage as the Goblin Prince and was roasting Scott for creating the situation that led to Inferno. I fully don't even want Maddy to really be cool with Scott, not obsessed with getting back at him but never 'besties" because that was unforgiveable. I'd rather Jean and Alex having to negotiate peace treaties at bit family gatherings. While many X-characters have many great loves, Maddy has Alex because it is obvious that she never really had Scott.

[Havok83]

Scott was scum even in his own book. I was actively rooting Alex on as the Goblin Prince when he leaped on the back of the demon driven carriage as the Goblin Prince and was roasting Scott for creating the situation that led to Inferno. I fully don't even want Maddy to really be cool with Scott, not obsessed with getting back at him but never 'besties" because that was unforgiveable. I'd rather Jean and Alex having to negotiate peace treaties at bit family gatherings. While many X-characters have many great loves, Maddy has Alex because it is obvious that she never really had Scott.

Whatever Scott may have done, they are pretty much even at this point. Trying to kill their infant son to raise demonic invasion on Earth while also trying to kill him and everyone else. Then there's her raping him which doesnt get talked about. And of course trying to do a repeat in Dark Web

[EmeraldGladiator]

Whatever Scott may have done, they are pretty much eve at thsi point. Trying to kill their infant son to raise demonic invasion on Earth while also trying to kill him and everyone else. Then there's her raping him which doesnt get talked about. And of course trying to do a repeat in Dark Web

Maddy was broken and spiraling in Inferno and the most egregious behavior was portrayed in the X-Factor issues of Inferno. Now that X-Men the end stuff, I don't really consider canon. I am not even sure if they have confirmed how much of post Inferno Maddy's were the real Maddy if any until Hellions. The recent portrayals haven't been the best I had faith Zeb had good plans for Maddy but it was a slow burn and he ran out of runway when he jetted for Amazing Spidey. The rest have been meh at best. People however excuse the actions of characters they like so I excuse Maddy, abhor Scott and adore Alex but I can see an alternate perspective. I feel demon corruption by Sym and Nastirah and loss of all sense of self and agency via Sinister to a character she always felt compared to give reasons behind possibly inexcusable behavior I just don't know a rationalization for Scott treating his wife and kid the way he did beyond the meta, because the PTB at Marvel wanted another high selling X-book featuring the O5.

[Havok83]

Maddy was broken and spiraling in Inferno and the most egregious behavior was portrayed in the X-Factor issues of Inferno. Now that X-Men the end stuff, I don't really consider canon. I am not even sure if they have confirmed how much of post Inferno Maddy's were the real Maddy if any until Hellions. The recent portrayals haven't been the best I had faith Zeb had good plans for Maddy but it was a slow burn and he ran out of runway when he jetted for Amazing Spidey. The rest have been meh at best. People however excuse the actions of characters they like so I excuse Maddy, abhor Scott and adore Alex but I can see an alternate perspective. I feel demon corruption by Sym and Nastirah and loss of all sense of self and agency via Sinister to a character she always felt compared to give reasons behind possibly inexcusable behavior I just don't know a rationalization for Scott treating his wife and kid the way he did beyond the meta, because the PTB at Marvel wanted another high selling X-book featuring the O5.

I never read X-men the End so I wasnt referencing that. Sorry but she doesnt get a pass for Inferno. She was doing awful things in the X-men issues. too. The demonic invasion started in UXM. It was all one story and her actions cant be separated and excused per title

Scott was suffering from depression. His mental health issues were real. He dealt with it by ignoring it and running away from his responsibilities. His problem was inaction as he was way too passive. Maddie handled the mental blow she got by making a deal with demons and channeling her frustrations into revenge. She was the opposite as she was way too aggressive. Scott was suffering alone and hurting himself. Maddie wanted everyone to suffer around her and as a result tried to hurt everyone else

Even if one wants to give her a pass here, she's still done some awful things since then which is why I say they are even. He doesnt really owe her anything else at this point. She's done worse to him and he's let that go

[JThree]

Oh bother. Are there any threads that the Scott/Maddie fans can go to? Always felt that Scott's wedding to Maddie was more sincere than his later one to Jean, which seemed really, really hyped up. Still feel that Maddie is part of Jean and thereby, Jean.

Don't think Scott suffering from "depression" is a good reason for him leaving his wife and child. I know, I know. This is a fictional world, but if this whole situation was real, I (or some of his colleagues) should have told him to man up, find his wife and child, and have some telepath wipe Jean from his mind. I'm a big believer in the institution of marriage. If you get stuck with a lemon, you make lemonade. And while Maddie was many things, she was no lemon. Ok. I know that made no sense, but I liked Maddie and Scott together. They had some real feelings at one point.

--jthree

[Havok83]

Oh bother. Are there any threads that the Scott/Maddie fans can go to? Always felt that Scott's wedding to Maddie was more sincere than his later one to Jean, which seemed really, really hyped up. Still feel that Maddie is part of Jean and thereby, Jean.

Don't think Scott suffering from "depression" is a good reason for him leaving his wife and child. I know, I know. This is a fictional world, but if this whole situation was real, I (or some of his colleagues) should have told him to man up, find his wife and child, and have some telepath wipe Jean from his mind. I'm a big believer in the institution of marriage. If you get stuck with a lemon, you make lemonade. And while Maddie was many things, she was no lemon. Ok. I know that made no sense, but I liked Maddie and Scott together. They had some real feelings at one point.

--jthree

Its not why he left. Its why he didnt go back sooner. Scott is a very passive person when it comes to matters of his personal life and he often requires an external push. Thats always been one of his character flaw

Your scenario wouldnt have worked. Back in the 1986, there wernet that many telepaths around. Jean didnt have her powers. Xavier was in space. Rachel had recently gone missing. He didnt know Psylocke and even if he did, he didnt trust the X-men bc of Magneto. Emma was a villian and partly responsible for DPS. Its not something that would have really worked anyway and it would have been a disservice to Maddie for him to only have stayed with her bc Jean was wiped from his head

[Project Initiative Cascada]

Whatever Scott may have done, they are pretty much even at this point. Trying to kill their infant son to raise demonic invasion on Earth while also trying to kill him and everyone else. Then there's her raping him which doesnt get talked about. And of course trying to do a repeat in Dark Web

Quick clarification as it was enormously confusing in the actual story, but that was NOT Madelyne Pryor in the Sisterhood arc who sexually assaulted Scott. It was the Red Queen evil Jean that originally replaced Maddie in the 90’s X-Man series. Fraction didn’t make it that clear in the story but said in an interview that Maddie was still dead at the time:

"Poor Maddy is still dead," Fraction told CBR News, addressing fan speculation. "I think she was consumed by the Red Queen. Nobody said Maddy was coming back. The Red Queen is back and Maddy is dead."

https://www.cbr.com/matt-fraction-talks-uncanny-x-men/

We can safely just assume she didn’t actually come back until Wells’ Hellions. (Or Woods’ Sisterhood arc if anyone actually cares). Not to mention it wouldn’t make any sense for Maddie to ever commit such a violation even to her worst enemies, since bodily autonomy is crucial to her character.

[Havok83]

Quick clarification as it was enormously confusing in the actual story, but that was NOT Madelyne Pryor in the Sisterhood arc who sexually assaulted Scott. It was the Red Queen evil Jean that originally replaced Maddie in the 90’s X-Man series. Fraction didn’t make it that clear in the story but said in an interview that Maddie was still dead at the time:

"Poor Maddy is still dead," Fraction told CBR News, addressing fan speculation. "I think she was consumed by the Red Queen. Nobody said Maddy was coming back. The Red Queen is back and Maddy is dead."

https://www.cbr.com/matt-fraction-talks-uncanny-x-men/

We can safely just assume she didn’t actually come back until Wells’ Hellions. (Or Woods’ Sisterhood arc if anyone actually cares). Not to mention it wouldn’t make any sense for Maddie to ever commit such a violation even to her worst enemies, since bodily autonomy is crucial to her character.

Fraction makes NO SENSE

Fraction: "Nobody said Maddy was coming back. "

Um, you did sir. Throughout the story, she is references as Madelyne Pryor, NOT the Red Queen. She remembers her time with Scott nad the X-men and the dialogue written would have made no sense if she wasnt intended to be Maddie







The Red Queen was not the X-men's former friend, nor was she married to Scott and had to deal with him feeling like she was compared to Jean

[JThree]

Its not why he left. Its why he didnt go back sooner. Scott is a very passive person when it comes to matters of his personal life and he often requires an external push. Thats always been one of his character flaw

Your scenario wouldnt have worked. Back in the 1986, there wernet that many telepaths around. Jean didnt have her powers. Xavier was in space. Rachel had recently gone missing. He didnt know Psylocke and even if he did, he didnt trust the X-men bc of Magneto. Emma was a villian and partly responsible for DPS. Its not something that would have really worked anyway and it would have been a disservice to Maddie for him to only have stayed with her bc Jean was wiped from his head

Sigh! I was joking there. Too many mind-wipes in the X Men Universe. (Again, I'm joking). Ah. . . We do realize we're talking about fictional characters in a fictional universe? I don't know anymore. I just know that "From the Ashes" by Claremont, where Madelyne was introduced and culminated in Scott marrying her is may favorite X Men story, and perhaps the only X Men story I've enjoyed. Too many characters, and too many confusing storylines. Remember, when bad guys were just in it, for money and revenge on the good guys. Great times. Simpler times. We didn't have to go through all this soul-searching.

--jthree

[Project Initiative Cascada]

Fraction makes NO SENSE

Fraction: "Nobody said Maddy was coming back. "

Um, you did sir. Throughout the story, she is references as Madelyne Pryor, NOT the Red Queen. She remembers her time with Scott nad the X-men and the dialogue written would have made no sense if she wasnt intended to be Maddie







The Red Queen was not the X-men's former friend, nor was she married to Scott and had to deal with him feeling like she was compared to Jean

There were also these panels from the same issues:

IMG_5157.jpg

IMG_5158.jpg

There’s Scott saying it wasn’t Maddie and then the Red Queen saying her last host was destroyed (Which can be inferred to when she took over as Maddie in the X-Man series and died at the end), but your panels are valid as well and contradicting at the same time. Proves my point how convoluted and confusing this story is. The way I see it, this story was not written or outlined competently at all with little to no editorial oversight, so I feel we shouldn’t even acknowledge the storyline or correlate it with Maddie’s history.

[Havok83]

There were also these panels from the same issues:

IMG_5157.jpg

IMG_5158.jpg

There’s Scott saying it wasn’t Maddie and then the Red Queen saying her last host was destroyed (Which can be inferred to when she took over as Maddie in the X-Man series and died at the end), but your panels are valid as well and contradicting at the same time. Proves my point how convoluted and confusing this story is. The way I see it, this story was not written or outlined competently at all with little to no editorial oversight, so I feel we shouldn’t even acknowledge the storyline or correlate it with Maddie’s history.

Thanks. Yeah the contradictions confused me and Fraction is crazy to not see why people would be...lol

[seccruz]

Fraction makes NO SENSE

Fraction: "Nobody said Maddy was coming back. "

Um, you did sir. Throughout the story, she is references as Madelyne Pryor, NOT the Red Queen. She remembers her time with Scott nad the X-men and the dialogue written would have made no sense if she wasnt intended to be Maddie







The Red Queen was not the X-men's former friend, nor was she married to Scott and had to deal with him feeling like she was compared to Jean

Red Queen was Ellis' evil Jean. You know the one who posed as Maddie for a hot minute...

[whitecrown]

Scott was scum even in his own book. I was actively rooting Alex on as the Goblin Prince when he leaped on the back of the demon driven carriage as the Goblin Prince and was roasting Scott for creating the situation that led to Inferno. I fully don't even want Maddy to really be cool with Scott, not obsessed with getting back at him but never 'besties" because that was unforgiveable. I'd rather Jean and Alex having to negotiate peace treaties at bit family gatherings. While many X-characters have many great loves, Maddy has Alex because it is obvious that she never really had Scott.

Yeah, I never bought the Scott/Maddie relationship. He got a lot of flack from readers back then who already felt it was too soon that he was linked with Lee Forrester after Jean's death and then that he dumped her the second he met a complete Jean look-alike. Claremont's idea that she was this one-in-a-million lookalike was even stupider since Maddie worked for Scott's grandparents, was the sole survivor of a plane crash that happened the same time Jean died on the moon, and knew things about Scott like his favorite breakfast. Oh, and she was amnesiac so nothing about her past was noted. Apparently Paul Smith said he thought it was a stupid idea as well and the reason he drew Maddie looking nothing like Jean was on purpose. It was obvious she and Jean were linked so she was always going to be stuck in her shadow.

What I don't understand is when it was decided to bring back Jean by separating her from the Phoenix, why nobody considered revealing that Maddie was that real Jean. Perhaps that Sinister had found her body in Jamaica Bay and released her and left her amnesiac. I think the issue was that Shooter and Byrne had zero interest in Maddie and just wanted Jean back and the O5 reunited. Claremont was the only person who ever cared about Maddie and he was too upset that his happy ending was being taken away so he never thought to try and salvage things by merging Maddie and Jean which would have saved everyone a lot of headaches. Jean's return was already planned by the time Maddie gave birth and Scott left the team, so I've seen some people say they should have just killed off Maddie and the baby in childbirth or had the baby not make it and Maddie leave Scott after that when she realized there was no link between them without the baby.

I like her a lot with Alex though, even if it sorta relegates them to Scott and Jean 2.0. I knew Scott was a scumbag to her but before this thread, I didn't even realize that he was foolishly searching for hospital records in Anchorage when as clearly pointed out, Maddie give birth in NY. Like wow, I didn't think anything could take the cake over his total non-reaction to his baby's birth but not even knowing where he was born is really something.

That being said, I don't have total trust in Alex either especially after reading in his thread that in the Mutant X reality, Alex cheated on Maddie with Susan Storm. Although at least Maddie got even with an affair with Bobby.

[Havok83]

Red Queen was Ellis' evil Jean. You know the one who posed as Maddie for a hot minute...

I know that. The confusion came in that Fraction was writing her as if she was Maddie. She was remembering her relationships with Scott and the X-men as if she was her but the stuff he was saying contradicted that

[JThree]

Yeah, I never bought the Scott/Maddie relationship. He got a lot of flack from readers back then who already felt it was too soon that he was linked with Lee Forrester after Jean's death and then that he dumped her the second he met a complete Jean look-alike. Claremont's idea that she was this one-in-a-million lookalike was even stupider since Maddie worked for Scott's grandparents, was the sole survivor of a plane crash that happened the same time Jean died on the moon, and knew things about Scott like his favorite breakfast. Oh, and she was amnesiac so nothing about her past was noted. Apparently Paul Smith said he thought it was a stupid idea as well and the reason he drew Maddie looking nothing like Jean was on purpose. It was obvious she and Jean were linked so she was always going to be stuck in her shadow.

What I don't understand is when it was decided to bring back Jean by separating her from the Phoenix, why nobody considered revealing that Maddie was that real Jean. Perhaps that Sinister had found her body in Jamaica Bay and released her and left her amnesiac. I think the issue was that Shooter and Byrne had zero interest in Maddie and just wanted Jean back and the O5 reunited. Claremont was the only person who ever cared about Maddie and he was too upset that his happy ending was being taken away so he never thought to try and salvage things by merging Maddie and Jean which would have saved everyone a lot of headaches. Jean's return was already planned by the time Maddie gave birth and Scott left the team, so I've seen some people say they should have just killed off Maddie and the baby in childbirth or had the baby not make it and Maddie leave Scott after that when she realized there was no link between them without the baby.

.

IMHO, Claremont's happy ending for Scott & Maddie was the best comic book romance ever. The ending where Scott pieced together the clues that it was Mastermind who was pulling their strings and came up with a plan to fight back was masterful. Scott was a real hero back then, thought out a plan, executed it, and (dare I say it) got the girl. There were emotional beats to it. The mystery and storyline was well thought out and all fit together. I miss those days. When heroes could be heroes, villains be villains, and eh. I better stop there. Claremont will always have my appreciation for that storyline.

==jthree