Madelyne Pryor 2024: Appreciation, Aspirations and Cheers for Her

[EmeraldGladiator]

I took a lot of time a few weeks ago explaining this very thing.

shoot a link to the thread, I might have missed it.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Jthree shorter answer, Claremont made me love Maddy as a character from Mutant Massacre until Inferno, the fact that Alex fell for her at the same time, made me a fan of him as a character and them as a couple.

[Havok83]

Havok you might be right, i wasn't really reading X-Factor as closely as I was reading Uncanny. I remember paying close attention when Warren went Archangel but not paying attention to X-Factor until Inferno. There was a completely different kind of protrayal of Maddy in the two books however. Maddy wasn't protrayed sympathetically at all in X-Factor. While there was never any Jean bashing in Uncanny, and the only Scott bashing was from Maddy and Alex. Maddy didn't seem like the same character in the two books. True all the X-Men had the demon Inferno affect to them when the teams met up but they still behaved as they typically do. Uncanny Maddy was a tragic spiralling character, X-Factor Maddy was a child attempted murdering spiteful harpy.

Fair enough. But to look at the opposing side, why would Jean even come up? She was long thought dead until Inferno. She wasnt at the forefront of the X-men's minds the same way Maddie would be with X-Factor bc she was a current topic they were dealing with. Scott could have given her the benefit of the doubt but from his perspective it looked like she faked her death and was being petty when he left for NY. He was led to beleive she was dead only to see her turn up with th X-men whom he already wasnt trusting bc they were allied with Magneto. I dont hink h was even hard on Maddie. Jean was the most vocal bc she was there standing by and watching him suffer. She also could have given Maddie the benefit of the doubt but she didnt know her so her loyalty was to her longtime friend and first love.

To her credit, she was completely empathetic towards Maddie once they met and she learned the truth. Since then, she has always fought for Maddie. When they reunited in X-Man and Nate tried to undo his creation of her, Jean tried to stop him. In Hellions when the case for if Maddie should be resurrected or not came up, Jean argued in favor of her. In Dark Web, when she tried to redo a demonic invasion of NY and kill the X-men, Jean sympathized with her and offered her a chance at redemption when others would have had her head.

[JThree]

TBH I wasn't much of a Maddy fan until, the Mutant Massacre Outback era. Maddy felt less like a background Candy Southern character and more like a character that got a raw deal. Husband abandons without a word and then attacked by the Marauders and her kids taken and she is left for dead. Maddy is getting a raw deal but doesn't give in but decides to fight back, well actually she is overwhelmed and thinks about ending it all but Alex sees her and literally talks her off the ledge. Initially she is all about finding her son, joins the X-Men who are on the run themselves. Claremont made Maddy's plight real for me and while the X-men took her in. As all this is happening Alex is a kindred spirit. Just as Maddy always suffers in comparison to Jean by Maddy's x-family. So to did Alex suffer always being related to Scott. Lorna stans hate when Lorna is referred to as Diet Jean. Well there are no more diet characters than Maddy, diet Jean and Alex, diet Scott. During the Outback Maddy had lost it all, at that time Alex was in a similar spot because he was led to believe that Lorna was forever lost to the Malice possession. Them falling for each other in that situation made perfect sense to me. Why Maddy wanted to burn down the world after the demon influence made sense to me as well. She was created to be a Jean stand in, the character she always chaffed at being compared to, so if all the world wants Jean and not Maddy, the screw the world. When Inferno happened and the Claremont Uncanny had to work with the Simonson X-Factor, Claremont had to deal with the X-Factor whitewashing of what Scott did which was unforgiveable and he used Alex to voice how crappy a husband/father Scott was. Since I was very pro Maddy at that time the fact that Alex was the only character that saw Maddy for Maddy without any comparison to Jean, I could see why Maddy would want that more than anything and that was when I became pro Alex and Maddy. Claremont made me pro Alex and Maddy. When they were just in-laws and Maddy was semi-giving up she was like if you (Alex) believe we can get out of the hopeless situation so will I. When Maddy is on the cliff about to commit suicide it's Alex who sees she is in distress and talks her down. When Alex is hurting over Lorna's possession Maddy notices moreso than the rest of the Outback team. When Maddy goes full Goblin Queen and they are confronted by the O5 team the rest of the X-Men are happy to have Jean back, Alex is the only one that even considers Maddy's side of things. Sure he goes Goblin Prince but he is the one unwilling to let Scott off the hook for his crappy behavior. Unlike some x-romances that come out of nowhere with no explanation, Scott staring at Psylocke/Kwannon. Alex and Maddy was a slow seduction, I saw how it started, how it grew and then she "died". Then in soap opera fashion when that great love returns chaos happens.

EmeraldGladiator: I respect your reasons. Alex did seem to care or Maddie legitimately in those days. And Alex is right with his assessement of how Scott treated Maddie. Have the other X-Men who were good friends with Maddie, ever chewed out Scott for his behavior? Did I miss that issue? In my mind, I always see Kitty, and Ororo giving Scott a piece of their minds. Now, I haven't read XMen titles in years because I was disgusted by all the subplots I could no longer follow with all the new characters I gave up on it. But I haven't see Alex grew as his own individual with his interests and personality to match Maddie (when she's good), so I just question whether they should wind up together. I think the resolution should be with Scott owning up to Maddie and saying he's sorry and trying to made amends. Scott has been so enveloped with being the leader, and dare I say it, the mutant cause; he doesn't know how to be a good human being anymore or good husband and father. Have any of you seen Scott, in the past thirty years, admit he treated Maddie badly?
If you have, let me see it. Right now, I see Alex as a sounding board for Maddie not much else. And there's still the "feeling" of getting involved with your ex husband's brother.

Anyway, Emerald Gladiator, impressive job on stating your reasons. And like you, Claremont made me care for Maddie than for Jean, who at the time, came across as shallow and reactive. However, we might blame bad writing or inconsistent direction on the part of editorship, for not providing good direction between the two camps.

==jthree

[JThree]

Havok you might be right, i wasn't really reading X-Factor as closely as I was reading Uncanny. I remember paying close attention when Warren went Archangel but not paying attention to X-Factor until Inferno. There was a completely different kind of protrayal of Maddy in the two books however. Maddy wasn't protrayed sympathetically at all in X-Factor. While there was never any Jean bashing in Uncanny, and the only Scott bashing was from Maddy and Alex. Maddy didn't seem like the same character in the two books. True all the X-Men had the demon Inferno affect to them when the teams met up but they still behaved as they typically do. Uncanny Maddy was a tragic spiralling character, X-Factor Maddy was a child attempted murdering spiteful harpy.

Bless you. I too, noticed the change of tone in the two books. But it seemed no one else did. Have no reason to go back and read X-Factor the series, besides issue one. Scott, lost his proactivity, and Jean lost her personality. She was always reacting to events instead of re-engaging. It seemed like she wasn't supposed to make contact with many X Men friends besides the X-Factor team, and it just seemed wrong to me.
Wasn't one of the plot lines back than, Jean's sister was missing. Did they ever find her?

-jthree

[EmeraldGladiator]

Jthree enjoyed the back and forth, as for Jean's sister she is probably hanging out with Richie Cunningham's brother Chuck and all other lost plot point siblings. It's been a while since I have actually read those books but they were the high water point of my love for Claremont's X-run. It was my Dark Phoenix saga, because I knew and respected Dark Phoenix but I wasn't as invested in comics when it came out too young to appreciate or notice it, I saw it after the fact, while I was totally into the X-Men when the massacre happened and after.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Fair enough. But to look at the opposing side, why would Jean even come up? She was long thought dead until Inferno. She wasnt at the forefront of the X-men's minds the same way Maddie would be with X-Factor bc she was a current topic they were dealing with. Scott could have given her the benefit of the doubt but from his perspective it looked like she faked her death and was being petty when he left for NY. He was led to beleive she was dead only to see her turn up with th X-men whom he already wasnt trusting bc they were allied with Magneto. I dont hink h was even hard on Maddie. Jean was the most vocal bc she was there standing by and watching him suffer. She also could have given Maddie the benefit of the doubt but she didnt know her so her loyalty was to her longtime friend and first love.

To her credit, she was completely empathetic towards Maddie once they met and she learned the truth. Since then, she has always fought for Maddie. When they reunited in X-Man and Nate tried to undo his creation of her, Jean tried to stop him. In Hellions when the case for if Maddie should be resurrected or not came up, Jean argued in favor of her. In Dark Web, when she tried to redo a demonic invasion of NY and kill the X-men, Jean sympathized with her and offered her a chance at redemption when others would have had her head.

Havok83, Actually I think it was implied that Maddy the X-Men's tech advisor shielded the X-Men from news of X-Factor probably because she feared they would drop her when they found out Jean was alive just like her husband had. For me Jean never did anything wrong per-se, she treated Maddy about as well as could be expected. For me Scott was the only one that was in the wrong. Alex who was the #1 Maddy stan during Inferno had nothing bad to say about Jean but gave Scott the business in battle, after she died and even at her funeral. I took his lead and blame Scott too, not ill feelings towards Jean, she was a victim too.

[Thirteen]

Wasn't one of the plot lines back than, Jean's sister was missing. Did they ever find her?

-jthree

The fate of Sara Grey was revealed. Her lifeline recounted by CBR here...

Maddie would have liked having a sister.

[Havok83]

Havok83, Actually I think it was implied that Maddy the X-Men's tech advisor shielded the X-Men from news of X-Factor probably because she feared they would drop her when they found out Jean was alive just like her husband had. For me Jean never did anything wrong per-se, she treated Maddy about as well as could be expected. For me Scott was the only one that was in the wrong. Alex who was the #1 Maddy stan during Inferno had nothing bad to say about Jean but gave Scott the business in battle, after she died and even at her funeral. I took his lead and blame Scott too, not ill feelings towards Jean, she was a victim too.

I was thinking of this scene when I made my post



It doesnt paint Jean in a positive light. Scott was grieving and kept replaying Maddie's last words and it upset Jean. She's not a victim here and she was kind of out of line and a bit insensitive

Alex didnt attend Maddie's funeral. The only ones there were X-Factor

[EmeraldGladiator]

You are right. Only X-Factor was there. Why they didn't know her but damage control. I was remembering Havok taking one last shot at Scott but Logan leading him away. I misremembered it at the funeral but that was just before she died but was in the force bubble. I knew it was a Factor issue because I remembered it wasn't Silvestri.

[Havok83]

You are right. Only X-Factor was there. Why they didn't know her but damage control. I was remembering Havok taking one last shot at Scott but Logan leading him away. I misremembered it at the funeral but that was just before she died but was in the force bubble. I knew it was a Factor issue because I remembered it wasn't Silvestri.

Everyone in X-Factor knew Madeylne except Jean, and well they had an intimate connection as original/clone and shared memories. Ultimately the team was there to support Scott. They didnt need to be close to her to do that



I also think you rememebred the Alex/Scott exchange wrong. Alex said hurtful things but he didnt mean them. It was part of a plan to fuel Scott to kill Sinister and free them. Alex taunted him about Sinister and ultimately acknowledged that they were all his pawns. The brothers shared a loving exchange before going their seperate ways

[EmeraldGladiator]

Havok83 on the facts you are 100% correct. For me however ever scene in the X-Factor issues of Inferno seem to have the sole purpose of redeeming Scott's boorish behavior. Which I understand because he is the leader of the team the Simonson's have to write. The Simonson's gave no nuance to Maddy or to Scott so the Scott cheerleading just felt hollow. The thing I liked about Uncanny was Claremont didn't try to make Maddy a saint, she did bad things he just explained them. Inferno pointed out to me why Uncanny was at the top of my pull list and X-Factor was added only during big X-crossovers, even though I really dug Archangel, and Caliban when he was under Apoc's control.

[JThree]

Havok83 on the facts you are 100% correct. For me however ever scene in the X-Factor issues of Inferno seem to have the sole purpose of redeeming Scott's boorish behavior. Which I understand because he is the leader of the team the Simonson's have to write. The Simonson's gave no nuance to Maddy or to Scott so the Scott cheerleading just felt hollow. The thing I liked about Uncanny was Claremont didn't try to make Maddy a saint, she did bad things he just explained them. Inferno pointed out to me why Uncanny was at the top of my pull list and X-Factor was added only during big X-crossovers, even though I really dug Archangel, and Caliban when he was under Apoc's control.

That's why Claremont was the superior writer. There. I said it. The aftermath to the event still seemed hollow. No one seemed to really mourn Maddie, and she had been their friend. The writers didn't even show us the funeral, so Scott could have some . . . . . kind words about her.

--jthree

[JThree]

I was thinking of this scene when I made my post



It doesnt paint Jean in a positive light. Scott was grieving and kept replaying Maddie's last words and it upset Jean. She's not a victim here and she was kind of out of line and a bit insensitive

Alex didnt attend Maddie's funeral. The only ones there were X-Factor

Interesting moment. Jean doesn't know that Maddie didn't know where the baby was, or that the baby was taken from her. Dialogue really shows the frustration with her. Scott is now obsessing over Maddie, the way he obsessed over Jean earlier (I think). Neither look particularly good. Again, interesting moment. Don't think Jean ever seemed so petty. Never thought there was anything wrong with Scott marrying Maddie, everything wrong subsequently happened because he left her.

--jthree

[marhawkman]

Interesting moment. Jean doesn't know that Maddie didn't know where the baby was, or that the baby was taken from her. Dialogue really shows the frustration with her. Scott is now obsessing over Maddie, the way he obsessed over Jean earlier (I think). Neither look particularly good. Again, interesting moment. Don't think Jean ever seemed so petty. Never thought there was anything wrong with Scott marrying Maddie, everything wrong subsequently happened because he left her.

--jthree

Agreed. Maddie gets thrown out like trash why??? That's the part that NEVER made sense.