Linda Danvers.Supergirl Appreciation 2024

[Jon Clark]

Didio was infected with 'Batman and Robin syndrome.' It's where the desire to sell merchandise overrules any concerns about quality, storytelling, and character. It's the same thinking that led to 1997's Batman and Robin being turned into nothing more than a 2-hour commercial to sell toys after Batman Returns' gory moments killed that film's merchandising potential. Bob Harris brought this thinking which helped ruin Marvel in the 90s with him to DC, and Didio was its biggest proponent. He looked at comics readers as collectively having the intelligence and attention span of a six-year-old and sought to have characters that appealed specifically to that lowest-common-denominator and not to anyone else.

To be fair, I sort of agree with some of Didio's point about Linda as Supergirl. You should be able to explain a character's concept in a quick blurb in most cases. And that blurb should be able to get you into and even through most stories using the character. And derivative characters (any Green Lantern. "Bat-","Super-") should be obvious in the connection to the main version.

Supergirl being "not Krptonian-like" and "not directly tied to Superman" are a problem. And by "not tied to Superman" I get the original Matrix connection but I'm saying you'd need that to be easily compressed to part of the blurb. Making her Flamebird might work by eliminating the need to distinguish her from Superman in that "quick blurb", but needing to reference Matrix, Linda's death, why she calls herself "Super"girl is a few bridges too far for a new reader attracted by "girl with Superman symbol". Whther that is a reader picking up the book or someone buying an action figure of the character.

[Factor]

I've said it before but the cleanest way to retcon Linda is to say she was a human girl who fused with the Kryptonian goddess Flamebird.

You still keep the supernatural aspect of her origins, the spiritual/religious themes and dual identity of ones personality merging with a non-human entity it just now ties back to Superman's mythology more directly and her unique powers like flame wings make a lot more sense.

You can still keep the broad strokes of her history of an ex cultist who was saved from sacrifice and took her second chance at life to redeem herself by using her new powers to fight demons and the like in honour of her favourite hero Supergirl. Not sure if Kara still supoosed to have "died" in current continuity but you could just say she was out of commission for a while.

Heck she was almost originally going to be Flamebird (and Conner Nightwing) during the New Krypto arc before Dan DiDio stepped in and it had changed to Thara and Lor Zod/Chris Kent

I do really like this idea for Linda, but it ends up messing with another cool character in a similar situation to hers.. Bette Kane.
Flamebird is Bette’s best identity by FAR. Giving it to Linda would be the final nail in Bette’s coffin.

[walk]

I do really like this idea for Linda, but it ends up messing with another cool character in a similar situation to hers.. Bette Kane.
Flamebird is Bette’s best identity by FAR. Giving it to Linda would be the final nail in Bette’s coffin.

Let's be real now Barbara Gordon put the nail in Bette Kane coffin back in the 60's and all the various Batkids they introduced in 50 years since then have just been more soil on the plot, she mostly exists as a novelty throwback to the Silver Age, the first Batgirl before Barbara, the only time she's been used consistently was during the New 52 Batwoman run as Kate's sidekick where they eventually landed on Hawkfire as a moniker, not having Flamebird as a title isn't going to make her any less relevant than she currently is.

[walk]

Apparently someone commissioned fanart of Linda as Flamebird

It's also another change I'd make if they brought back Linda, ditch the wig and let her keep her natural brunette bob hairstyle, it helps set her apart visually from Kara.

[Triniking1234]

Indeed, I don't know what the hell DiDio wanted to accomplish.

I kinda agree with Didio not wanting to push a non-Kryptonian character with low ties to Clark during a Krypton story line.

[Factor]

Let's be real now Barbara Gordon put the nail in Bette Kane coffin back in the 60's and all the various Batkids they introduced in 50 years since then have just been more soil on the plot, she mostly exists as a novelty throwback to the Silver Age, the first Batgirl before Barbara, the only time she's been used consistently was during the New 52 Batwoman run as Kate's sidekick where they eventually landed on Hawkfire as a moniker, not having Flamebird as a title isn't going to make her any less relevant than she currently is.

Well, very similar things could be said of Linda. She's also lost relevance due to another more iconic character taking her place (or retaking, in Linda's case). Yet she still has her fans and could have a stronger role in the DCU. Both characters are in very similar situations, so for me it's weird to take from one and give to the other. Linda is not inherently more deserving than Bette, or vice versa.

[sunofdarkchild]

While there are a bunch of names Linda could take, Superwoman is the one that's most likely to sell. Flamebird, Seraph, or Ember are too niche for this day and age when nothing sells outside of Batman and Spider-Man and even those are not the cash cows they used to be.

I strongly disagree that every 'super' character needs to have a strong direct connection to Superman in the sense of being another Kryptonian or blood relation. Conner's golden age was when his only connection to Superman was having been created to replace him, and things started to really go downhill for Conner around the time he was retconned into being a Superman clone. In general things really started to go downhill for the Superman franchise when the human supporting cast and fellow heroes began to be replaced with Kryptonians. Given that Superman's supposed to inspire, for him more than anyone it makes sense for his extended 'family' to be distinct characters inspired by him rather than clones of him, which is why the Superman family of the late 90s works so much better than everything they've done since. The characters were distinct in powers, story, and personality, but the inspiration of Superman was enough to unite. That makes Superman a more compelling hero than he is when he's surrounded by just his blood relatives or other Kryptonians all with the exact same powers and often the same stories. Even then, being Superman's stepsister or adopted sister who was also raised by the Kents is a pretty strong direct connection, and the strongest connection any 'Super-family' character had until Kara was brought back. 'Superman's adopted sister' is as short and simple as anything.

[kcekada]

Making this era's Nightwing and Flamebird existing characters (Conner and Linda) would have had a lot more much that the characters we got. Those stories had potential but never quite seemed to hit the mark -- probably due to editorial/DiDio interference.

[walk]

Well, very similar things could be said of Linda. She's also lost relevance due to another more iconic character taking her place (or retaking, in Linda's case). Yet she still has her fans and could have a stronger role in the DCU. Both characters are in very similar situations, so for me it's weird to take from one and give to the other. Linda is not inherently more deserving than Bette, or vice versa.

My point was the name "Flamebird" has no real value to either Linda or Bette because the real issue is that most fans don't even know who they are, it wouldn't matter what you'd ultimately call them, it's not going to hinder or boost what doesn't exist.

Bette/Flamebird is not a Dick/Nightwing situation where it's a identifiable brand with actual name recognition attached to gaining or losing it as the title.

[walk]

While there are a bunch of names Linda could take, Superwoman is the one that's most likely to sell. Flamebird, Seraph, or Ember are too niche for this day and age when nothing sells outside of Batman and Spider-Man and even those are not the cash cows they used to be.

I strongly disagree that every 'super' character needs to have a strong direct connection to Superman in the sense of being another Kryptonian or blood relation. Conner's golden age was when his only connection to Superman was having been created to replace him, and things started to really go downhill for Conner around the time he was retconned into being a Superman clone. In general things really started to go downhill for the Superman franchise when the human supporting cast and fellow heroes began to be replaced with Kryptonians. Given that Superman's supposed to inspire, for him more than anyone it makes sense for his extended 'family' to be distinct characters inspired by him rather than clones of him, which is why the Superman family of the late 90s works so much better than everything they've done since. The characters were distinct in powers, story, and personality, but the inspiration of Superman was enough to unite. That makes Superman a more compelling hero than he is when he's surrounded by just his blood relatives or other Kryptonians all with the exact same powers and often the same stories. Even then, being Superman's stepsister or adopted sister who was also raised by the Kents is a pretty strong direct connection, and the strongest connection any 'Super-family' character had until Kara was brought back. 'Superman's adopted sister' is as short and simple as anything.

I wouldn't even call the Flamebird idea a "strong direct connection" just that it's a lot less messy than all that interdimensional space goop/Earth Angel noise and unlike the latter actually has something to do with the wider Superman mythology.

People can gripe about Geoff Johns retcon of Conner all they want but the fact is if he hadn't streamlined his origins Conner would've never had made it into all the adaptions he has and become known to the wider public because no one was ever touching all that Paul Westfield/metahuman stuff.

If not for mandate Conner would've simply been a clone from the start and Matrix/Linda would've just been Kara, Steel by himself works fine enough as the non-Kryptonian human "Super" who was inspired by Clark.

You might be looking back at the 90's Superfamily with rose-tinted glasses though, there was only a handful of times when they actually teamed up or interacted with each other, ironically if they had actually built a stronger bond between them Linda herself may have been kept around after her retirement to some extent, DC only ever truly committed to this idea of a Superfamily in the last year, for the vast majority of his publication Clark's supporting cast has always been normal people.

And yeah I don't think it's adopted sister aspect that trips people up about Matrix's origins so much as the aforementioned space goop stuff, me thinks it'd take more than something "short and simple" to catch your average joe up on that little caveat.

[walk]

Making this era's Nightwing and Flamebird existing characters (Conner and Linda) would have had a lot more much that the characters we got. Those stories had potential but never quite seemed to hit the mark -- probably due to editorial/DiDio interference.

I actually do wonder how much of the initial plot if any was carried over to Thara and Chris.

I could see a story of Linda and Conner hunting down Zod's sleeper agents but doubt if any of the later stuff with them becoming the reincarnated spirits of Flamebird/Nightwing would've occurred.