John Stewart: Green Lantern Appreciation 2024

[Frontier]

He's more just straightlaced. Sure he's a pretty point man kind of guy but he still has plenty moments of socializing and hanging out with others. Snyder's JL run had some pretty sweet friend moments with Flash.

Granted that was trying to force the JohnxWally dynamic with John and Barry.

[Refrax5]

I don't think he's really been written that way though.

I don't think Thorne, Venditti, PKJ, or even Van Jensen wrote him that way. Or the DCAU.

PKJ has done a good job. I already said the DCAU was one of the few times that approach worked. The others largely depicted him as a stoic military guy without much depth or personality. Even the DCAU version was essentially a new character that had virtually nothing in common with the comics version. And the version that's existed in the comics for the last 20 or so years has very little in common with who he was prior to them putting the military version into the comics.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking him. I'm just saying he's radically different on a fundamental level from who he was. Most of who John was and what I liked about him is largely gone.

[skyvolt2000]

PKJ has done a good job. I already said the DCAU was one of the few times that approach worked. The others largely depicted him as a stoic military guy without much depth or personality. Even the DCAU version was essentially a new character that had virtually nothing in common with the comics version. And the version that's existed in the comics for the last 20 or so years has very little in common with who he was prior to them putting the military version into the comics.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking him. I'm just saying he's radically different on a fundamental level from who he was. Most of who John was and what I liked about him is largely gone.

Be sure to thank every single editor and even "fans" who caused that.

From axing of books for reasons beyond sales.
From chasing off writers that tried to do stuff with John.
From bad direction of the company that screwed over guys like John.
From trying to kill off John for someone else's PETS.
From not trying to take advantage of outside media interest. If a Oscar winning billion dollar movie starring a guy in a catsuit or a biracial spider-man and friends can't get you motivated to invest in someone to counter-whose fault is that?
From putting John in the hands of writers who don't care for him. Thankfully not to the level we saw with T'Challa.

But this isn't exclusive to John-we can list A TON of characters that have been victim of this.

[Frontier]

PKJ has done a good job. I already said the DCAU was one of the few times that approach worked. The others largely depicted him as a stoic military guy without much depth or personality. Even the DCAU version was essentially a new character that had virtually nothing in common with the comics version. And the version that's existed in the comics for the last 20 or so years has very little in common with who he was prior to them putting the military version into the comics.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking him. I'm just saying he's radically different on a fundamental level from who he was. Most of who John was and what I liked about him is largely gone.

I guess he didn't come off particularly stoic for me in the last few years and has referenced his challenging authority personality from his early days. So it didn't feel that noticeable to me.

[Refrax5]

There are a lot of characters that are military characters that I love and I've had friends and family in the military. My grandfather fought in WWII.

But I also don't glorify it, especially in modern times, where we are often involved in conflicts for...questionable...causes. I think taking a guy that was depicted as mouthing off to cops and was a guy who's whole thing was questioning authority and turning him into a guy that enlisted, regulation crew cut and all, and specialized specifically in killing people, is almost an offensive betrayal of what the character stands for. Especially when you have him on the verge of gunning down unarmed scavengers in a blind rage.

And they've made some very anemic attempts at bringing up him challenging authority and trying to reconcile that with a guy who literally kills who the government orders him to---and I realize people take issue with that description, but it's absolutely accurate, if not blunt---and it just falls flat, especially since his primary characterization is still basically the one-note marine guy.

He had developed over the years from the more angry, in your face character he originally was, but a lot of that was organic and a result of some pretty life-changing experiences. It wasn't a ground-up rewrite of his personality to have synergy with a popular cartoon.

Them trying to try to say this current version is still questioning authority when his default persona is "ooh ra" is just a hard sell. It's like having a punk rock band where all the members are cops. There's a fundamental conflict of philosophy there.

[Frontier]

Not really. There are a lot of characters that are military characters that I love and I've had friends and family in the military. My grandfather fought in WWII.

But I also don't glorify it, especially in modern times, where we are often involved in conflicts for...questionable...causes. I think taking a guy that was depicted as mouthing off to cops and was a guy who's whole thing was questioning authority and turning him into a guy that enlisted, regulation crew cut and all, and specialized specifically in killing people, is almost an offensive betrayal of what the character stands for. Especially when you have him on the verge of gunning down unarmed scavengers in a blind rage.

And they've made some very anemic attempts at bringing up him challenging authority and trying to reconcile that with a guy who literally kills who the government orders him to---and I realize people take issue with that description, but it's absolutely accurate, if not blunt---and it just falls flat, especially since his primary characterization is still basically the one-note marine guy.

He had developed over the years from the more angry, in your face character he originally was, but a lot of that was organic and a result of some pretty life-changing experiences. It wasn't a ground-up rewrite of his personality to have synergy with a popular cartoon.

Them trying to try to say this current version is still questioning authority when his default persona is "ooh ra" is just a hard sell. It's like having a punk rock band where all the members are cops. There's a fundamental conflict of philosophy there.

I think he's "ooh ra" when it comes to the GLC as a whole but he was challenging the Guardians a lot when they were put back in charge in Hal N' Pals.

And his New 52 Secret Origin issue showed him going against orders he didn't believe in.

[Sodam Yat]

I guess he didn't come off particularly stoic for me in the last few years and has referenced his challenging authority personality from his early days. So it didn't feel that noticeable to me.

yeah that's how I see it, too. He was very stoic in the Johns' run. When Van Jensen wrote GLC, he resembled more from the JL/JLU toons imo.

[Redjack]

I think he's "ooh ra" when it comes to the GLC as a whole but he was challenging the Guardians a lot when they were put back in charge in Hal N' Pals.

And his New 52 Secret Origin issue showed him going against orders he didn't believe in.

Correct.

He has a code. He's about the corps. But he is not a non-thinking, emotionless "jarhead." Nor are, it must be said, the vast majority of marines.

Post that, yes, several people (naming no names) have leaned hard into the "stoic dead-eyed sniper" aspect of being in the military and that being dominant in John's personality. I was raised by a black man who ENLISTED to go to Vietnam and then went back after his first tour was up. He consciously raised me and my brother to be, as he put it, "psychologically unfit for war." So, you absolutely can be a solider with a high body count AND a peace/community activist, once your service is done. MANY soldiers, in fact, follow this precise path. The two states are in no way incompatible.

For the bulk of the last couple decades (and mostly prior as well) John has been, at best, the #2 supporting character in the story of Hal Jordan. After Kyle was created and got his decade as the only GL, John was basically #3. I wouldn't call it an evolution over the decades. It's more like a sequence of basically random changes up to the advent of the marine part of his background. But that is a result of both creative and editorial choices for the character that are outside of a given story.

While modern John is certainly wildly dissimilar to the O'Neill-Adams version, those changes were made incrementally, over decades. Simply rebooting him as that original guy is not desirable or, frankly, workable, without a line-wide reboot or, absent that, an entire arc devoted to pushing him back to those roots.

I don't see either of those in the cards.

[Anthony Shaw]

Tim Scott would be a great template for an Earth Three John Stewart.

[Refrax5]

I think he's "ooh ra" when it comes to the GLC as a whole but he was challenging the Guardians a lot when they were put back in charge in Hal N' Pals.

And his New 52 Secret Origin issue showed him going against orders he didn't believe in.

Yeah, there are a handful of examples of them awkwardly trying to reconcile the two. Like I said, I don't see the pre-Marine retcon John Stewart as the same character and its awkward when they try to make a guy who willingly signed up to kill foreigners at the government's behest and someone who was shown on the verge of committing a war crime with some socially conscious rebel. It's a pretty profound conflict of ideology, despite their flimsy attempts to pay lip service to John's activism.

He's also a vastly duller character as a result.

It's fine. I'm not demanding they change the character back to how he was in the 70s (strange interpretation of what I said) or demanding anybody else agree. Im just stating that I think the character lost a lot of what made him interesting and admirable when they decided to turn him into a sniper. We went from an intellectual and activist to this Chris Kyle kind of guy and I personally find it antithetical to what the character was meant to stand for.

You don't have to agree. For what it's worth, I was rolling my eyes when Johns made Hal Jordan a terrorist-bombing, John McCain-quoting GI Joe character, too. But outside of PJK, I've found almost every run with John painfully dull and largely focused on the military aspect of the character and its unappealing to someone who was more interested in John's intellect and social conscience. Modern John is just not a take on the character I find likable or interesting.

[Robotman]

There are a lot of characters that are military characters that I love and I've had friends and family in the military. My grandfather fought in WWII.

But I also don't glorify it, especially in modern times, where we are often involved in conflicts for...questionable...causes. I think taking a guy that was depicted as mouthing off to cops and was a guy who's whole thing was questioning authority and turning him into a guy that enlisted, regulation crew cut and all, and specialized specifically in killing people, is almost an offensive betrayal of what the character stands for. Especially when you have him on the verge of gunning down unarmed scavengers in a blind rage.

And they've made some very anemic attempts at bringing up him challenging authority and trying to reconcile that with a guy who literally kills who the government orders him to---and I realize people take issue with that description, but it's absolutely accurate, if not blunt---and it just falls flat, especially since his primary characterization is still basically the one-note marine guy.

He had developed over the years from the more angry, in your face character he originally was, but a lot of that was organic and a result of some pretty life-changing experiences. It wasn't a ground-up rewrite of his personality to have synergy with a popular cartoon.

Them trying to try to say this current version is still questioning authority when his default persona is "ooh ra" is just a hard sell. It's like having a punk rock band where all the members are cops. There's a fundamental conflict of philosophy there.

Even if some writers try to expand upon his character away from the stoic Marine, it doesn’t help that his go to constructs are either a giant sniper rifle or a platoon of soldiers (or both).

[Refrax5]

Even if some writers try to expand upon his character away from the stoic Marine, it doesn’t help that his go to constructs are either a giant sniper rifle or a platoon of soldiers (or both).

Exactly. It's pretty much the default persona. If you had any investment in who he was prior to the marine retcon, there's not much for you.

[Frontier]

Yeah, there are a handful of examples of them awkwardly trying to reconcile the two. Like I said, I don't see the pre-Marine retcon John Stewart as the same character and its awkward when they try to make a guy who willingly signed up to kill foreigners at the government's behest and someone who was shown on the verge of committing a war crime with some socially conscious rebel. It's a pretty profound conflict of ideology, despite their flimsy attempts to pay lip service to John's activism.

He's also a vastly duller character as a result.

It's fine. I'm not demanding they change the character back to how he was in the 70s (strange interpretation of what I said) or demanding anybody else agree. Im just stating that I think the character lost a lot of what made him interesting and admirable when they decided to turn him into a sniper. We went from an intellectual and activist to this Chris Kyle kind of guy and I personally find it antithetical to what the character was meant to stand for.

You don't have to agree. For what it's worth, I was rolling my eyes when Johns made Hal Jordan a terrorist-bombing, John McCain-quoting GI Joe character, too. But outside of PJK, I've found almost every run with John painfully dull and largely focused on the military aspect of the character and its unappealing to someone who was more interested in John's intellect and social conscience. Modern John is just not a take on the character I find likable or interesting.

That's fair.

Personally I don't think John was dull at all in the GLC run by Van Jensen, the Geoffrey Thorne run, and even Hal N' Pals and I don't think they overdid the Marine aspect. He was still incredibly intelligent and moral.

[Refrax5]

That's fair.

Personally I don't think John was dull at all in the GLC run by Van Jensen, the Geoffrey Thorne run, and even Hal N' Pals and I don't think they overdid the Marine aspect. He was still incredibly intelligent and moral.

I never said he wasn't written to be intelligent. But he lacks the deeper, philosophical and socially conscious aspects of the character. And while I realize this is a touchy subject with a lot of people, the morals of a sniper are very different than the morals of the John I loved and very different from my own. If you're going to have a guy trained specifically to kill people for whatever cause the government decides on, you don't get to pretend he's this rebellious, socially conscious guy.

Van Jensen's John was...fine. Thorne's run wasn't to my liking and I'll leave it at that. The current run is probably the best John Stewart since before the retcon.

[Frontier]

I never said he wasn't written to be intelligent. But he lacks the deeper, philosophical and socially conscious aspects of the character. And while I realize this is a touchy subject with a lot of people, the morals of a sniper are very different than the morals of the John I loved and very different from my own. If you're going to have a guy trained specifically to kill people for whatever cause the government decides on, you don't get to pretend he's this rebellious, socially conscious guy.

Van Jensen's John was...fine. Thorne's run wasn't to my liking and I'll leave it at that. The current run is probably the best John Stewart since before the retcon.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I felt like these aspects were present in those writers' interpretation of John.

But I don't think having a period as a soldier means he can't be that person, it just adds a new layer.