Sentry Appreciation 2024 - The Man with the Power of a Million Exploding Suns

[Maestro 216]

Why not do a sun and moon vibe. When fully powered he's a nice Sentry. When starving or low on power he becomes a moody void guy.

[Refrax5]

Well, I think the best way forward is one that doesn't promote harmful stereotypes about schizophrenics, who are more likely to have violence done to them than vice versa.

And ultra-violence is boring to me.

I agree. It always felt strange to me how Bendis would depict him killing so casually when the Sentry of the Jenkins book was a pretty noble character, despite his troubles. He didn't strike me as the kind of guy that would be ripping people in half.

Also, with characters like Homelander, Omni-Man, etc so known in pop culture right now, it seems like a redundant concept to depict him as an ultraviolet version of Superman.

[Tendrin]

I agree. It always felt strange to me how Bendis would depict him killing so casually when the Sentry of the Jenkins book was a pretty noble character, despite his troubles. He didn't strike me as the kind of guy that would be ripping people in half.

Bendis has a horrible history with character with mental health issues. Moon Knight, Sentry, D-Man...

Also, with characters like Homelander, Omni-Man, etc so known in pop culture right now, it seems like a redundant concept to depict him as an ultraviolet version of Superman.

Very much so.

[ENTRYS]

I agree. It always felt strange to me how Bendis would depict him killing so casually when the Sentry of the Jenkins book was a pretty noble character, despite his troubles. He didn't strike me as the kind of guy that would be ripping people in half.

Also, with characters like Homelander, Omni-Man, etc so known in pop culture right now, it seems like a redundant concept to depict him as an ultraviolet version of Superman.

sentry-vs-attuma.jpg

Jenkins Sentry busted Attumas head into a million tiny pieces. I think Sentry has been always willing to kill.

And I think you're all riding too much on my support of ultra-violence. I'm not saying that the Sentry himself has to be ultra-violent. He can and probably should if the situation calls for it, but I think that he should be put into situations where ultra-violence occurs. You can have scenes where Sentry himself suffers gory damage to his body in the fight against a Void type only to then regenerate back. You can have the Void do ultra-violent stuff. You can have some of Sentrys enemies do ultra-violent stuff and push the Sentry to the brink of his sanity and morals. I'm talking about the visuals and the tone of the book and not Sentrys actions. I want the reaction of a Sentry book readers to be: "God damn, that issue was insanely disturbing and I loved every single panel in it. How did they get away with it? And when's the next issue coming out?"

I ask again: What is the alternative for the Sentry? Because every suggestion I read seems to take away something from the Sentry instead of adding something new and unique.

[Refrax5]

sentry-vs-attuma.jpg

Jenkins Sentry busted Attumas head into a million tiny pieces. I think Sentry has been always willing to kill.

And I think you're all riding too much on my support of ultra-violence. I'm not saying that the Sentry himself has to be ultra-violent. He can and probably should if the situation calls for it, but I think that he should be put into situations where ultra-violence occurs. You can have scenes where Sentry himself suffers gory damage to his body in the fight against a Void type only to then regenerate back. You can have the Void do ultra-violent stuff. You can have some of Sentrys enemies do ultra-violent stuff and push the Sentry to the brink of his sanity and morals. I'm talking about the visuals and the tone of the book and not Sentrys actions. I want the reaction of a Sentry book readers to be: "God damn, that issue was insanely disturbing and I loved every single panel in it. How did they get away with it? And when's the next issue coming out?"

I ask again: What is the alternative for the Sentry? Because every suggestion I read seems to take away something from the Sentry instead of adding something new and unique.

I suppose so, but that was the Sentry series after Bendis had brought the character back and had him rip Carnage in half early on. A lot of Jenkins second series retcons both the original (and better) mini and moves more towards Bendis' concept of Sentry being much more insane and morally dubious.

As for Attuma, I find that scene odd since I'm pretty sure Attuma being killed was ignored after that.

Either way, I don't think you're going to see much "ultra violence" in the MCU. I also don't think it works as anything unique for a character like him and will only make him seem like yet another derivative "Superman but violent" character.

I've always maintained you delve into the psychological aspects of the character and the idea that this man is literally his own archenemy. The idea of a man who is split into the world's greatest hero AND the world's greatest villain, his tenuous grip on reality, his mental issues, and the contrast between idealized silver age heroics and a darker, more tragic reality is all vastly more compelling and unique than a violent Superman pastiche, especially these days.

I'm not a squeamish person at all, but violence doesn't make something interesting on its own.

[JudicatorPrime]

To answer a question you asked in the previous thread, Sentry did show molecular manipulation powers by defeating Molecule Man, as flashbacked in the most recent Sentry issue preview. And I remember that was something that was mostly completely unexpected by comic readers at the time, since Molecule Man was a last minute villain for the existing arc. Let's remind these Sentrypeople are getting memories of what are "supposed" to be Sentry's most memorable moments, at least as a hero.

Thanks for confirming. I figured one of the new Sentry folks would get that power, since molecular manipulation isn't usually considered a standard Superman-type ability. I guess the question there is, "Who does Bob want to manifest that power?" If they're going to have multiple Sentries running around, might as well have one of them slightly more unique power-wise than the others.

[Wildling]

I suppose so, but that was the Sentry series after Bendis had brought the character back and had him rip Carnage in half early on. A lot of Jenkins second series retcons both the original (and better) mini and moves more towards Bendis' concept of Sentry being much more insane and morally dubious.

As for Attuma, I find that scene odd since I'm pretty sure Attuma being killed was ignored after that.

Either way, I don't think you're going to see much "ultra violence" in the MCU. I also don't think it works as anything unique for a character like him and will only make him seem like yet another derivative "Superman but violent" character.

I've always maintained you delve into the psychological aspects of the character and the idea that this man is literally his own archenemy. The idea of a man who is split into the world's greatest hero AND the world's greatest villain, his tenuous grip on reality, his mental issues, and the contrast between idealized silver age heroics and a darker, more tragic reality is all vastly more compelling and unique than a violent Superman pastiche, especially these days.

I'm not a squeamish person at all, but violence doesn't make something interesting on its own.

The Attuma kill wasn't ignored, just eventually undone by Doctor Doom resurrecting him as I recall.

[ENTRYS]

I suppose so, but that was the Sentry series after Bendis had brought the character back and had him rip Carnage in half early on. A lot of Jenkins second series retcons both the original (and better) mini and moves more towards Bendis' concept of Sentry being much more insane and morally dubious.

Jenkins original idea for the Sentry was to write three stories. In the first Sentry would return and try to figure out who he once was and who he is now. That's what we saw. In the second issue he would deal with his inner demons aka his crazy and his addiction. And in the third issue he would face the Void for the last time and finally accept the fact that he has become a god. So Sentry being crazy has been always a thing in Pauls mind. I seriously do not think for a second that Bendis told Jenkins to write the second volume in the way Jenkins did.

Fun fact: There is a book called Deathmatch written by Paul Jenkins. In that book he... he seems to tackle what he had in mind for the third Sentry book which he never got to write since he parted ways with Marvel. In that book there is a Superman archetype called Meridian who has an arch nemesis called Anti-Meridian. Anti-Meridian looks like you would expect the Void to look. There are some time shenanigans involved at the end and given the many clocks in the first Sentry series, maybe that's what we would have gotten:

meridian-antimeridian.jpg

As for Attuma, I find that scene odd since I'm pretty sure Attuma being killed was ignored after that.

Sentry killed Attuma. Attuma got resurrected and remembered the Sentry killing him:

attuma-knows.jpg

Either way, I don't think you're going to see much "ultra violence" in the MCU. I also don't think it works as anything unique for a character like him and will only make him seem like yet another derivative "Superman but violent" character.

That's why the MCU has been getting worse with each new release unless they bring something big to the table like the old Spider-Men or James Gunn' last MCU movie. The MCU needs to be bolder and more subgenre-oriented. Also obviously, I'm not asking for the Sentry to be MCUs Omni-Man. That would be a massive downgrade.

I've always maintained you delve into the psychological aspects of the character and the idea that this man is literally his own archenemy. The idea of a man who is split into the world's greatest hero AND the world's greatest villain, his tenuous grip on reality, his mental issues, and the contrast between idealized silver age heroics and a darker, more tragic reality is all vastly more compelling and unique than a violent Superman pastiche, especially these days. I'm not a squeamish person at all, but violence doesn't make something interesting on its own.

What you just wrote is exactly what I want and what I've been saying this whole time. I don't want brutal Superman. I want a deep and complex mentally ill character trying his best to be a hero. But every time the dark tones come up and a fight happens, I want mind-boggling, scary visuals. Why? Because barely anyone else brings that to the table. Sentry can shapeshift and heal from anything. You can use that to go nuts with him. What's more interesting: Hulk punching Thor and Thor punching Hulk or Hulk being cut into many pieces, still living and smiling and regenerating in a matter of moments (Immortal Hulk series)? I'd strongly argue the latter.

[Oberon]

I've never been a super Sentry fan, but I like the character and it's potential. Despite disliking Bendis especially Avengers, the sense of overwrought mental problems with Sentry was interesting.
But I really liked Sentry in the original Uncanny Avengers. He was just so atonal or distant in a way.
I realize that he apparantly vasilates quite a bit on his personality and being dead or alive, lol.

The one thing that always fascinated me about the character was how he interacted in stories or with characters in the retcon way.
Is that a consideration, a story or plot that revolves around previous interactions and their meaning or need now.
Is that even a power?
If Moira just reincarnates and sort of restarts the universe
then maybe Sentry could do that but retroactively.
Of course it wouldn't be easy, but even Superman's greatest powers contain the element of time travel.
I know, some of you are probably aghast at this, but you could almost reconsider his career as one he retconned himself in some respects.

[Refrax5]

Jenkins original idea for the Sentry was to write three stories. In the first Sentry would return and try to figure out who he once was and who he is now. That's what we saw. In the second issue he would deal with his inner demons aka his crazy and his addiction. And in the third issue he would face the Void for the last time and finally accept the fact that he has become a god. So Sentry being crazy has been always a thing in Pauls mind. I seriously do not think for a second that Bendis told Jenkins to write the second volume in the way Jenkins did.

Fun fact: There is a book called Deathmatch written by Paul Jenkins. In that book he... he seems to tackle what he had in mind for the third Sentry book which he never got to write since he parted ways with Marvel. In that book there is a Superman archetype called Meridian who has an arch nemesis called Anti-Meridian. Anti-Meridian looks like you would expect the Void to look. There are some time shenanigans involved at the end and given the many clocks in the first Sentry series, maybe that's what we would have gotten:

meridian-antimeridian.jpg



Sentry killed Attuma. Attuma got resurrected and remembered the Sentry killing him:

attuma-knows.jpg



That's why the MCU has been getting worse with each new release unless they bring something big to the table like the old Spider-Men or James Gunn' last MCU movie. The MCU needs to be bolder and more subgenre-oriented. Also obviously, I'm not asking for the Sentry to be MCUs Omni-Man. That would be a massive downgrade.



What you just wrote is exactly what I want and what I've been saying this whole time. I don't want brutal Superman. I want a deep and complex mentally ill character trying his best to be a hero. But every time the dark tones come up and a fight happens, I want mind-boggling, scary visuals. Why? Because barely anyone else brings that to the table. Sentry can shapeshift and heal from anything. You can use that to go nuts with him. What's more interesting: Hulk punching Thor and Thor punching Hulk or Hulk being cut into many pieces, still living and smiling and regenerating in a matter of moments (Immortal Hulk series)? I'd strongly argue the latter.

Again, I don't think ultra-violence is a creative idea, especially with this character. It would only serve to make him seem like a pale imitation of an endless wave of similar characters popular in media.

Whether or not Sentry was always intended to be mentally ill is besides the point. He wasn't depicted that way in the final story. He also was never depicted as being homicidal until Bendis brought him back and completely altered the character. I assume Jenkins was following what Bendis had set up in New Avengers, considering the whole thing incorporates a number of things Bendis set up.

Even so, there's a brief scene where he bloodlessly kills Attuma and one where he tosses Void into the sun. Even there, everything is pretty firmly PG 13. This idea that taking a character that has never been especially about violence (outside of a few ill-conceived moments from his worst writer) and putting in all this gore, as if that's unique or something that will bring audiences back seems very strange to me.

Immortal Hulk worked in a very specific style and context. The Sentry comics have never been especially gory or body-horror oriented. It's not really what the character is about and I think just comes off as edgy for the sake of edgy. I don't really feel like him getting ripped apart and regrouping himself adds anything. The Void is scary, but it just feels like adding some weird angle to the character that isn't really anything to do with who he is.

[Tendrin]

Sentry was always intended to be mentally ill. The entire original mini -- which I agree is the best work and has a tone and feel that the character needs to return to -- is often allegorical and metaphorical about it. The use of the second person narration is to suggest Bob's disassociation, for example, from himself and his alternate personas. Jenkins placed him as a schizophrenic with generalized anxiety disorder in the unused character bible he left Marvel for the character, and the Void is meant to represent deppression, addiction, and is a symptom of the way mental health is simply not talked about. The Void came to be because *no* one could actually talk about what was happening to Bob and his worsening condition.

For me, the Void should best represent the lies that depression and anxiety tell you. As someone who has suffered from both and PTSD, I can tell you that there's often a voice that reacsts your own past and your own actions in the worst light possible. I'd lean ito that, and have the result be that the Void is the one retconning Bob's origins. This would be backed textually be the comics themselves, as each new iteration of Bob's origin has been worse than the one before it, with some new detail added. The truth, of course, should be somewhere between the Age of the Sentry-ish sillyness and the version we see at the end with Bendis' murderous meth addict nonsense. Each new iteration of Bob was worse, because he was literally able to retcon his own past and his own origins, as he's 'slippery' and out of synch with time. If he decides to remember something one way, there's nothing to stop it from being true, so far as he's concerned.

Alcohol abuse, marijuana, and other downers are far more common amongst the afflicted population than an upper such as speed or cocaine. Not unheard of, but most are trying to 'quiet' their brains down. The Void is the imp of the perverse made real and tangible. If every errant, intrusive thought you had could come to terrible life, you'd be living in a nightmare too, and it goes a long ways to his paralysis. I'd suggeset there are 'smaller voids', which are brief intrusive thoughts that manifest to take action at a repressed desire, say throwing a plane at the guy who might be trying to seduce your wife, and the Greater Void, which is the independent being that has torn free of Robert Reynolds and exists fully on its own.

If it were up to me, I'd actually explain the Sentry's murder of Carnage early on through his psychic powers. When Carnage made contact, he immediately senses the symbiote's connection to the greater darkness that is Knull, saw down the pathways of his future, and made the choice to quickly end him in the hopes it would prevent Knull's arrival. The thing is, I'd immediately also suggest that he's not sure why he did this. That it was purely an inutitive use of his powers, and that his own revulsion at his own actions worsened his mental health considerably.

Bob is the heart of the Sentry. Without him, you just have a collection of kewl powers. We're seeing the logical outgrowth of the notion that Sentry is just his powers and a collection of kewl ultra-violent moments. That's what Topper is meant to criticize in Loo's run.

[Wildling]

If it were up to me, I'd actually explain the Sentry's murder of Carnage early on through his psychic powers. When Carnage made contact, he immediately senses the symbiote's connection to the greater darkness that is Knull, saw down the pathways of his future, and made the choice to quickly end him in the hopes it would prevent Knull's arrival. The thing is, I'd immediately also suggest that he's not sure why he did this. That it was purely an inutitive use of his powers, and that his own revulsion at his own actions worsened his mental health considerably.

I'm on board with this interpretation. For better or worse the Carnage scene years ago set the stage for the current Bob status quo we're enduring through. While Bob was often used just for for common Superman powers, he had massive super senses and psionic powers at his disposal that were shown often enough. And Mallory using the better parts of Sentry powers in the current miniseries saved more than a dozen people and she still feels miserable.

[ENTRYS]

Again, I don't think ultra-violence is a creative idea, especially with this character. It would only serve to make him seem like a pale imitation of an endless wave of similar characters popular in media.

Whether or not Sentry was always intended to be mentally ill is besides the point. He wasn't depicted that way in the final story. He also was never depicted as being homicidal until Bendis brought him back and completely altered the character. I assume Jenkins was following what Bendis had set up in New Avengers, considering the whole thing incorporates a number of things Bendis set up.

Even so, there's a brief scene where he bloodlessly kills Attuma and one where he tosses Void into the sun. Even there, everything is pretty firmly PG 13. This idea that taking a character that has never been especially about violence (outside of a few ill-conceived moments from his worst writer) and putting in all this gore, as if that's unique or something that will bring audiences back seems very strange to me.

Immortal Hulk worked in a very specific style and context. The Sentry comics have never been especially gory or body-horror oriented. It's not really what the character is about and I think just comes off as edgy for the sake of edgy. I don't really feel like him getting ripped apart and regrouping himself adds anything. The Void is scary, but it just feels like adding some weird angle to the character that isn't really anything to do with who he is.

I'm not going to tell you that disliking the introduction of horror elements to the Sentry is wrong. If your taste goes against that kind of thing, then that's fine. But I will point out three things:

1. You're separating Jenkins Sentry from Bendis Sentry way too much. Try thinking about the character in an in-universe-kind-of-way. Everything about the Sentry is canon from the moment he woke up in Sentry #1 to the moment Strange-Clea pulled the ghosts out of his rotting corpse in Strange #10. Sentry getting his body ripped apart by Molecule Man and manifesting... or Sentrys wife shooting his face off with a de-atomizer only for him to stand up and heal his face back... or Ares piercing his skin and tentacles coming out of his body... or him ripping his head off and living on as a brain with eyes... or his fingers transforming into long shadow-tentacles... or him leading an army of Lovecraftian eldritch monsters. All of that happened to the Sentry. And as the Void he was transforming from one hideous monster form to another during one fight. It doesn't matter who wrote it. It's part of the character now for the better or the worse.

2. Bob is as much the Void as he is the Sentry. Loo says the Void is a separate entity but that guy has read like 7 Sentry comics (as in individual issues). Everything else points to Void being a manifested part of Sentrys illness. An evil persona born out of a delusion. Persona, not personality. And as the Void Bob gave a young mother untreatable cancer. He killed a legion of European heroes when he first returned. He killed over a million people in a fight with himself. The difference is that in the first Sentry volume those things were not shown in their gory detail. We just saw the aftermath. Robert Reynolds has killed many people, long before he ever encountered Carnage. Obviously, you need to separate Sentry and the Void, but there should be dark themes about killing involved. Because there always have been. Bendis isn't the one who turned the Sentry into a mentally deranged threat to society. That danger was always there. Jenkins just swept it under the rug more by not showing it as overtly as Bendis did.

3. Let's just say how it is: Most memorable Sentry moments that are shared across the internet don't come from Jenkins books. It's those moments that shook viewers by bringing something new to the table. You may not like it and you may think it's not a good, interesting form of entertainment. But I'd encourage you to watch peoples reaction to the first Invincible episode. Many of them disliked how boring the first episode is until the last fight where Omni-Man randomly started killing heroes. And once again, I don't want to see the Sentry start killing random villains. You have to be smart about ultra-violence. But IMO it should absolutely be there. Sentry ripping Ares apart? One of the most shared Sentry moments. People posting a picture of Sentry and asking which comic its from to read it? Probably Uncanny Avengers where Sentry rips his face apart or attacks Wasp as a brain with eyes. Sentry being a deep and complex character whom you fall in love with? That has to be the very base at the center of the Sentry. Something that counteracts all the crazy visuals. There is a lot of depth to the Sentry and that should always be the case, first and foremost.

Have you watched the Chainsaw Man anime? INCREDIBLY hyped up when it first came out. I watched the first 10 or 12 episodes and found the story to be abysmally bad. But you had this Chainsaw Man guy cutting through demons. Hot women were puking into his mouth. He was obsessed with grabbing boobs and got to grab some. And people loved it. And the same writer wrote a story named Fire Punch where a guy could regenerate from almost anything. And during the cold, never-ending winter he would cut off his own arm and feed the village with it. His sister loved him in a different way than a sister should love his brother. Weird ass ideas but people love those animes and mangas. People love seeing something new. Why was Blue Beetle meh? Because it rehashed the same story elements many other movies already did and did better.

When I talk about what I want for the Sentry, I mostly suggest ideas and themes that would make the character more appealing to a bigger audience and turn the book into a hit. I see what people like. And I'm not talking about an echo chamber here where I'm already in those fanbases that like the themes I suggest. I usually check out media after it has been approved by the masses because then I know that I'm not wasting my time getting into it.
You have to expand on the character. You have to capture the imagination of the audience. You have to be able to fill 50 issues with various cool ideas that follow a cohesive, atmospheric vision. The Sentry has been in character limbo even when he was in books. By that I mean that it always boiled down to the Void and him not being able to control it. That was the case for the last 5-6 years now and I'm sick and tired of it. Sentry in Doctor Strange? Void. Sentry Volume 3? Void and luckily some Scout and Cranio which made it much more refreshing. Scout melted in that book. How is that not body horror? Black Panther and the Agents of Wakanda? Void again. Annihilation Scourge? All Void baby. King in Black? 3 panels with Sentry and then the Void getting absorbed. Clea Strange? Zombie Sentry which is essentially evil Sentry which is essentially the Void again. And then you have Marvel be like: "Hurrdurrrrr, well if people don't like the character, let's just create a new diverse Sentry and people will surely like it! Let's make that a sure hit by turning the Sentry into a woman of color who is disabled and possibly also a lesbian because that has tested really well with our test audience."

[Monari]

Why not do a sun and moon vibe. When fully powered he's a nice Sentry. When starving or low on power he becomes a moody void guy.

Lemire had set up a really, really interesting personality in the few pages of his mini with the merged Sentry. You didn't really know where Bob was going in his actions and it really was a testament to Lemire's writing ability how he was able to communicate all of that in the few panels that merged Sentry was featured in. I was (and still am) desperate for more stories of merged Sentry in space.

This was probably the greatest wasted story potential ever. I wish Lemire had stayed on for another mini.

[Tendrin]

Lemire had set up a really, really interesting personality in the few pages of his mini with the merged Sentry. You didn't really know where Bob was going in his actions and it really was a testament to Lemire's writing ability how he was able to communicate all of that in the few panels that merged Sentry was featured in. I was (and still am) desperate for more stories of merged Sentry in space.

This was probably the greatest wasted story potential ever. I wish Lemire had stayed on for another mini.

It's frustrating because it was billed as an ongoing, had better sales than other running on-goings, but got canned anwyay. I suspect because there were art problems and Lemire wanted to move on from the big two by and large.