Enchantè! Amora the Enchantress Appreciation 2024

[Charlie_1981]

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I'm not too happy about this, I'm starting to wonder exactly where the story of Immortal Thor is going because I have mixed feelings that this story is going nowhere and that in the end it doesn't contribute much, I think that this story with Amora is too much of a coincidence that it comes out published in this month of April because it is 60 years since her first appearance (coincidentally also with Skurge) but it seems almost like a filler story with these artists than a story with repercussions or continuity and I don't like that at all.

I don't know when Ewing will find what he wants to do because in other series I see him more inspired than here and I expected more from the treatment towards Amora because it is more of the same.

[juan678]

https://www.deviantart.com/dristin00...ght-1046066007

[Charlie_1981]

https://www.deviantart.com/dristin00...ght-1046066007

Loved It, and a good reminder she exist

[whitecrown]

It's been a while. Glad to see Amora back in a current issue.

[whitecrown]

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/roxx...as-ever-drawn/

Amora in the beach with Skurge

Just to clarify, Heimdall and Amora aren't really a thing right?

[Charlie_1981]

Just to clarify, Heimdall and Amora aren't really a thing right?

No, they were when Skurge died

[whitecrown]

No, they were when Skurge died

I mean currently. Since that scan is from a fantasy sequence, it doesn't mean Amora and Heimdall are together right now?

[whitecrown]

1) Yes, it's really something that surprised me because I didn't think the series was that old, I knew about the different doctors but I wasn't even sure what it was about when I saw it for the first time That's true, maybe Mike Carey's stage wasn't Whether it was very remembered or even considered minor, it was also a time when, as we have mentioned before, the mutant series were a bit in the doldrums and with hardly any clear direction, people paid attention but they didn't feel passionate either, that thing about Kitty and Pete Wisdom (Curiously, most of Kitty's known partners are named Peter, including her relationship with Peter Parker from Ultimate Spider-Man). Regarding Warren Ellis, I have no idea what he should be doing currently, I don't know anything new if he has done it since 2020.

2) Yes, that's true, I don't like it either and I don't know what its purpose is either.

3) That's good that the fans are able to mobilize and be able to do something that they didn't like, to have the original director's version that couldn't be done for various reasons and also that the director was also motivated to do it is a good thing.

4) Me Too, that's why I wasn't sure, so the Doctor Strange thing would have been the first-time during Acts of Vengeance.

5) Yes, none of that story makes sense and it was in tremendous bad taste.

6) I think maybe she would be a little closer to Sif, Lorelei is young but a different youth, she is young but also adult, Thor is older than her, just like Loki (at least the old Loki, the current one would be a similar age). The Enchantress would indeed be closer to Thor and Loki's age.

The old Sylvie thing would be flashes that happen from time to time, leading to headaches, migraines, hangovers, as time goes by, she lives with it but it is not something she is able to explain, not even to the most people closer to her because she doesn't even understand why it happens to her, she sees it as something that she knows is not going well, although she does not consider them bad memories but they are disturbing for her because she seems to feel them as happiness until at the end of her life she begins to understand them but it is very late. Also, when Sylvie is in the past, she wears a lot of green, she has a symbol (Loop Circle) that she doesn't understand what it is and because of the love she has for her daughter Amora before her father's incident happened, she decides to pass it on to her because Amora always dresses the same way as inspiration, fashion and because she loves it because it fits her.

7) I really believe that that was an inspiration for many later comics and characters, a clear example of absolute inspiration being Spider-Man's relationship with the Black Cat, everything seems completely copied in this case. I have always seen The Batman Show of the 60s as something humorous, seeing it with the eyes of 2023 you have the feeling of watching a comedy because of how ridiculous it is, I understand that at that time it was a boom.

8) I have no idea and I can honestly understand it, especially when the first movie wasn't a hit. But the comics are and should be something different, not depending on what happens in the MCU. I've seen that about The Marvels somewhere during the week and it doesn't look like the box office estimate will make it work, although there could be some surprises, sometimes those things happen but seeing the trend of the latest Marvel movies, it's scary to think about it.

9) Yes, I was also interested in knowing what the original fairy tale stories were like and I was really impressed by how terrible and bloody they were and that they didn't exactly have happy endings. I understand that when they wanted to adapt them to new times, the most difficult and horrible parts, they removed them or changed them so that children when reading them would not be scared or traumatized by the stories, although they were surely not even for children. Then there's the fact that Disney sugarcoated it in such a way that the horrible became something happier and nerdier, but more acceptable to children.

10) I suppose so, when I have seen stories about Wonder Woman or in the Titans comics referring to Donna Troy I have seen it quite clearly. And about Hercules, I'm surprised that Marvel, with all the success of Thor, didn't try harder with him when, for the most well-known story, Hercules has always been there, but the Norse story has been more popular for years for Marvel, although more than Nordic history, more time they has been lost in the cosmic than in stories of Vikings, mythology and Asgardians in general.

1) The Kitty thing is a bit of a joke now whether all her main love interests being named Peter.

3) The only issue with the Snyder cut is that it's made a lot of fandoms think it's super easy to get director's cut of films they had problems with. A lot of people have been asking for a new cut of Spider-Man 3 (there actually is a director's cut already).

6) Yes, I always figured Amora was a contemporary of Thor and Loki so Lorelei would be younger than them. But I always assumed Sif was also a contemporary of Thor, Loki, and Amora. Is Sif supposed to be younger than them?

It makes sense to me that Sylvie would not feel she can explain what's happening to her to anyone around her because she doesn't even understand herself what's going on. Even for an Asgardian, it would be considered something strange and unnatural and not easy to share. I like the idea that the loop circle gets passed down to Amora because in a way, it shows how there's bit of a time loop there since young Sylvie would always have seen Amora with it, not knowing that in the future, she'll be the one to give it to Amora in Amora's past.

7) Black Cat was definitely heavily inspired by Catwoman and although she became popular, she never reached Catwoman's success or became Spider-Man's main love interest. It's interesting that Catwoman has appeared in so many movies and even gotten a solo film (albeit a disastrous one) but there's never been any Black Cats onscreen. The 60s Batman show was definitely a product of its time but I hear people still enjoy it when they get exposed to it, even if its only to laugh at it.

8) Since we've last spoken, now we know that The Marvels was a box office disaster. I'm just glad they didn't include Amora in it because my personal idea would have been that for Marvel's premiere female character, her villain should be Marvel's first and previously most popular villainess. There was no need to tie Amora to such a box office flop.

9) Speaking of fairy tales, I remember that Marvel made some fairy tale versions of the Avengers, X-Men, Spider-Man, etc. Were there any stories that ever had Amora? She seems to come across as one of the most obvious choices for any witches or evil queen characters. I remember an Avengers one had Wanda as Wendy, Steve as Peter, and Janet as Tinker Bell.

10) Yeah, Thor seems more or less just based on the cosmic themes now rather than anything from the Old Norse myths and the movies have only further perpetuated that. I thought Hercules would be primed to show up in the MCU now but Thor: Blood and Thunder getting really bad critical reception seems to have killed that idea. I don't think there's any real interest in seeing Hercules come back.

[whitecrown]

11) As people they are different, Morgana is not even remotely like Lorelei nor have their experiences been similar, which means that both Amora and Morgana can feel certain similarities between them but the issue of one being an older sister and the other a younger one is only felt by the familiar relationship and hence Amora has a relationship with Lorelei for being her sister and a different one with Morgana for being someone she had not met in person until that moment and also because of what she could have heard about her because of her reputation, which is also otherwise.

Yes, but since they are both evil and have done terrible things throughout their lives, it is another point to bond better and see that they are not so different, just that they have chosen paths that they cannot later regret. Amora knows that Morgana really can't change and that she is a living anomaly in a time in which she should not be physically in the current times and that is why from her time, Morgana did what she did before knowing that if she was defeated by the various heroes with whom she has fought nothing would happen since physically she would always be fine but things change when Lorelei defeats her and drags her to the current time.

Amora, to avoid Morgana sudden change, decides to be her friend when they meet in Broxton and make promises and favors so that the bond between them is so great that later it is difficult to make hard decisions such as Morgana seeking revenge against Amora's sister, Lorelei or dying from her wounds caused previously, if Morgana were a better person it would be a problem because if she came back so changed, in Camelot things should go as history says, a good Morgana is not good for the destiny of Camelot which must advance.

It could be, but sometimes small things and mistakes that are not important have consequences, in real life they happen continuously, I prefer it that way because it improves the story than thinking about if someone had manipulated the events or done it through evil plans in the future, which makes the mess and chaos lead to the unpredictable, the fact that Morgause is reincarnated can be an opportunity to change and go through various experiences that lead her to her friendship with Sylvie, Sylvie would be the beautiful and popular girl but they make fun of her because they believe that she is too naive, dreamy and stupid while Morgause would be the poor girl that people always mess with but that everyone counts on and that those same people end up being afraid of her Because it is what it is, when Morgause Camelot's memories are activated it causes events to develop with mixtures of memories between Camelot and Broxton, at first involuntarily and then voluntarily, in addition this event in Broxton before the Reign of Lorelei, also carries that later, Sylvie Lushton goes through something similar without reincarnations when she reaches the past after falling into the time stream and becoming what would be the mother of Amora and Lorelei, you can call it Catharsis or simply issues of Karma how some events connect with others.

You already know that after that is when the Asgard thing happens, Amora and Morgana's friendship becomes palpable but ends in betrayal because Morgana stops listening to her and does the Sylvie Lushton thing whenever she has the chance and because Amora is so distracted with her nieces and her son and then tries to take advantage of Lorelei after the Frost Giants incident and because her pain is too much to forget revenge although her stay in Asgard leads her to see and experience interesting things as it leads her to more knowledge. than the one she had.

11) That is what I was trying to explain, that the following generations do not end up like the previous ones and that they could break the cycle if things are done better.

Before her disappearance, Sylvie meets Lorelei's daughters who consider her their dear cousin Sylvie and who also they learn a lot from her even though she has no experience in this regard, taking her to some fun situations, but also the girls learn to be better people, above all, forming a bond with Lorelei's daughter with the powers of the protective force fields, although Sylvie still feels out of place even though she is loved by a family that has decided to take her in without knowing that that family exists for her. Those things really lead to the tragedy of her disappearance being felt as I said before and that's why I tried to explain a little of her interactions with everyone before she disappeared through the timestream because of Morgana.

12) I have no idea, Mordred is Morgana's son, right? Or Morgause according to other stories? Morgaine at first does not reincarnate but the revelation of what happened to her makes something change in Morgana when she discovers the truth that had always been denied to her because she also loved her although she was more inclined to spend time with her older sister in her childhood years.

It would be but as I mentioned, Sylvie's relationship with Alvi would not start well and she tries to remind him that he still has a father and a mother when she has no one after Broxton, it is a matter of respect and understanding and something of empathy because otherwise Alvi would end up almost the same as his aunt, being someone who spends more time alone than having someone who can help him. Really, and with context later, Sylvie's words would really be important and have more impact on him, not just as a friend, stepsister or then knowing that she was his grandmother when all the connections are revealed.

True, but Morgana loved her sister and felt that she should be avenged even if it was herself with all the pain in her heart who finished her seeing that Sylvie was unable to do her job due to her emotional traumas, Morgana blames her for seeing herself forced to do something she didn't want to do although the defeat of Morgause does not make her recover her magic which leads her to feel even more frustration with Amora being the only one who could calm her down. Even understanding the situation and knowing Morgana that she had to do something because her sister Morgause had crossed too many red lines but she believed that Sylvie Lushton would do it while trying to respect that Broxton was her home and her territory, Morgana was just trying to have a minimum of education.

11) That makes sense since Morgana and Lorelei are really not similar people a all. Their relationship dynamics would be so very different. But their chosen redemption paths would give them something to relate to even if they choose different paths as only Lorelei can really earn redemption. It also makes sense to me that Morgana could act the way she did, without worry of consequences, because she knows that she'll always be physically fine until Lorelei drags her to the current time and suddenly the consequences become all too real.

There's something very tragic about how a good Morgana is not good for the destiny of Camelot. That, essentially, Morgana can never be allowed to change or become a better person because doing so will doom the destiny of her kingdom and she's forced to remain as she is. I believe Amora would acknowledge that and understand this predicament especially after their bond deepens.

Thannk you for explaining the timeline so clearly of what happens between Morgana and Amora. How Morgause in her reincarnated form is so very different from Sylvie and Morgana and Amora's friendship tragically must end when Morgana targets Sylvie which Amora cannot stop as she has more pressing matters to deal with. This idea that none of these characters are necessarily doomed to repeat the same patterns and have the agency to break the cycle, even if they aren't necessarily doing so, is a good one. It gives the characters more respect and doesn't leave everything to fate by assuming that they have no choice.

12) Yes, Mordred is Morgana's son by Arthur. Usually Morgause is his aunt or great-aunt in the versions where she is Morgana's aunt. However, in many versions, Morgause steals Mordred from Morgana and raises him which is why he turns out so evil. I think Morgause is only Mordred's real mother in verions where she is combined with Morgana.

It's funny how Sylvie ends up as Alvi's friend/stepsister/grandmother because gods and goddesses taking on multiple roles like this is very common in the ancient pantheons. I don't know how prevalent this was in the Norse myths but it definitely was in the Greek and Egyptian ones. In Egyptian mythology especially, the two main gods were husband/wife, brother/sister, and mother/son. Giving Sylvie these multiple roles helps make her feel a more valid part of the Norse gods.

I see, that makes a lot of sense now in the Morgana/Amora/Sylvie/Morgause dynamic and that Morgana recognizes that her sister has crossed to many lines even if she still feels the need to avenge her.

[whitecrown]

Yes, the story of the past goes like this and it is how in principle it should go, because it is the way Amora remembers it, being what is in Sylvie's mind the only anomaly.
Things cannot be done to change it because it is already too late and things happen when they happen, even if you have the knowledge beforehand, nothing can change.
Sylvie loves her husband and sees him die in front of her daughter to protect her, Sylvie doesn't like the situation at all and tries to be a good mother even losing half of her love, not someone who only thinks about things that are crossing her mind, leading certain people in the past to believe that she is crazy, Sylvie letting her daughter Amora go, helps her follow her destiny, something similar happens with the little Lorelei, Lorelei tries to help her mother but without knowledge of magic, it is difficult to do so, when Sylvie sees that Lorelei gets the ingredients right for the potions to cure her, she somehow manages to change or modify the ingredients, causing her daughter to feel bad about it when nothing she does to save her mother works, which leads to a sad situation but one that must be happen so that her destiny is fulfilled when Sylvie is no longer there for her daughters.

True, Amora had a theory that she began to create in her mind the second time she saw Sylvie and from there she later took her on as her disciple trying to understand why she suddenly thought of her mother. Lorelei would also have certain reservations when she sees her and more knowing what her name was leading her to talk directly to Loki. Which in the end both sisters have theories about Sylvie Lushton according to their own way of seeing things and from what they remember. Amora continues with that idea while Lorelei little by little and with what is happening during her time as queen forgets until the end that she remembers when she recognizes her mother trapped in the depths of Hel and how similar she is to Sylvie, the Shock is really big and impacts both sisters.

Yes, but the difference is that when she tries to use them, people who are inside the force field are suddenly tired, unconscious or fall asleep directly and when the girl releases the absorbed energy against an enemy, she has a limited time in which When everything is over she worries and from there with her bond with Sylvie, together they prepare a lot of food so that when the people she was trying to protect wake up they will forget what happened and recover even faster as her way of compensating for the bad thing about using her power.

14) True, and I would also give her closure if she could be able to tell him how much Skurge meant to her, but she would choose her son because she would feel even more guilty for him since she was the one who left her children with their father to protect them and believing that the topic of the academy was nonsense and that if they had wanted she could have taught them magic herself, that later that tragedy with Iric occurred, it must have affected and hurt her a lot.

About her father, Amora couldn't do anything, it would have been too long, although if there had been an opportunity, perhaps instead of choosing Skurge or her son Iric, she could have done it with her father only so that her sister Lorelei, who grew up without him, it would feel better, but not everything can be achieved and there is only one option.

Surely, but their relationship is complex, especially because Amora does not do it in a genuine way but to prevent Morgana from getting close to her sister Lorelei and taking revenge on her, then they become closer and curiously with some sensitivity, understanding and simply with respect, they become good friends. Amora tries a different approach thinking about how things are going for her or how they have gone with other women and that is also because Sylvie advises her something that sounded stupid to her but works.

It is a way of explaining how she got out of there and how she is alive, I don't know if it is the best explanation but it is one and it is evident that there are consequences, think what happened to Balder, his trauma, insecurity and his white hair, Lorelei may suffer something that even if it is not seen, would be there.

15) That's true, but those discussions give life to the threads and if people think differently it can also be seen.

So time cannot change in your story. Even knowing what will happen does not mean you have the power to alter time to something else. I could see that driving normal human beings mad if they knew what was going to happen but could not do anything about it. It's especially tragic in the case of Sylvie knowing she is destined to lose her husband and that her daughters will not be close. The part where Sylvie actually has to alter the potion that Lorelei makes because it can't work in the timeline is especially tragic as it will set up so much of Lorelei's insecurities from this early failure.

It's very interesting how Amora has a vague idea that Sylvie is connected to her mother and I wonder if she ever considers if Sylvie is a reincarnation since that would seem more plausible than time-displaced. I imagine both sisters having similar thoughts would only increase their belief that they are on the right track, assuming they share these theories of familiarity with each other.

That's sweet of the girl with the force field that knowing what her power does to others, that she tries to compensate by preparing food so that when they wake up, they will have that at least.

14) It makes sense to me that although she cares for Skurge, her son would come first and be the one Amora chooses. And I guess it also makes sense that it's been too long for it to work with her father and even seeing him again would make things feel better for Lorelei but not accomplish anything beyond that.

I like how Amora tries a different approach in becoming close to Morgana because she knows from past experience what has never worked with her and something new might actually succeed.

[whitecrown]

True, in the case of Amora, establishing and making her family ties stronger, in addition Thor would change the way he sees her and perhaps Loki, even being the way he is, would also find some understanding. With Lorelei, in addition to helping against Surtur, she also finds a way to empathize with other people and that everything matters.

That's true, and it shouldn't be seen that way, if you want a character to take the place of another, you have to distinguish him, for example with the different Robins I have never been able to distinguish them well, because in appearance they all seem so little distinguishable, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne, the only difference being Stephanie Brown. Something similar happens with Flash because they are all redheads, Barry Allen, Wally West, I suppose sometimes Bart Allen.

If you read Avengers Inc, you will see Janet, they are already two issues into the miniseries, I don't know what has become of Nadia, the last thing I saw was in the Champions series. I didn't know about Jessica Drew/Jones, it surprises me.

True, I have always seen her that way and her relationship with Loki is very iconic, which is insulting to watch the Disney Plus Loki series and find what you find without taking advantage of things better.
The theme of Amora's lack of friendship with other women is strange and it is something necessary to see because it gives another dimension to the character of the Enchantress.
Morgana was in the X-men books but specifically in Excalibur, Knights of X and Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain. What I wanted to say is that what Brian Wood did in his mutant run was not good at all with the lineup of women and then the Sisterhood issue in which Amora was the only non-mutant in the group, I don't know what Wood thought by including her, It was so absurd and out of place.

That's why I thought so, when Loki changed a girl like Sylvie Lushton, he can't know how this could turn against him or backfire him in some way, no one control freewill.

True, and in this way you make the character have a complexity and a better way of understanding it, in addition to a way of identifying with others in a similar situation, Amora never talks about herself, at least on a personal and less emotional level, hence Little is known about her, I think that this kind of thing is what she could have experienced and that no one has to know, hence why she behaves and is the way she is.

Yes, those developments matter and are much needed to help a stagnant franchise grow again.

Good point because with the Robins, they all do look alike when they're dressed as Robin. Only in their individual identities like Nightwing and Red Hood is it obvious who is who. Flash even more confusing because the costume is more or less the same for several of them.

I wonder if Nadia's character is being retired especially now that the Ant-Man series seems to be over in the MCU. I'm glad Janet is still back and not being retired then.

In the Agatha Disney+ series, there are rumors about there being a whole coven of witches. I'd be curious if it might come to transpire that Amora could be included, maybe as a patron goddess of these witches. If such a thing happened, that could also give her more female characters to interact with in the comics.
I didn't read Knights of X which explains why I missed Morgana in the X-Books. I did read the Sisterhood arc with Brian Wood's X-Men and I also don't know why Amora would be involved with this Sisterhood that has nothing to do with her. I guess because she had fought the X-Men/New Mutants in the Asgardian Wars, it was felt she was fair game as a X-Men villainess??

Yes, agreed.

It makes sense to me that Amora (and Lorelei in her own way) would be a private individual and would not share things about herself. That type of knowledge given to someone else would be like giving them power over her.

[marhawkman]

Amora isn't a top-tier magic user though. She's close to the top, but not AT the top. So a coven drawing power from her would have to be kinda weak.

[Charlie_1981]

1) The Kitty thing is a bit of a joke now whether all her main love interests being named Peter.

3) The only issue with the Snyder cut is that it's made a lot of fandoms think it's super easy to get director's cut of films they had problems with. A lot of people have been asking for a new cut of Spider-Man 3 (there actually is a director's cut already).

6) Yes, I always figured Amora was a contemporary of Thor and Loki so Lorelei would be younger than them. But I always assumed Sif was also a contemporary of Thor, Loki, and Amora. Is Sif supposed to be younger than them?

It makes sense to me that Sylvie would not feel she can explain what's happening to her to anyone around her because she doesn't even understand herself what's going on. Even for an Asgardian, it would be considered something strange and unnatural and not easy to share. I like the idea that the loop circle gets passed down to Amora because in a way, it shows how there's bit of a time loop there since young Sylvie would always have seen Amora with it, not knowing that in the future, she'll be the one to give it to Amora in Amora's past.

7) Black Cat was definitely heavily inspired by Catwoman and although she became popular, she never reached Catwoman's success or became Spider-Man's main love interest. It's interesting that Catwoman has appeared in so many movies and even gotten a solo film (albeit a disastrous one) but there's never been any Black Cats onscreen. The 60s Batman show was definitely a product of its time but I hear people still enjoy it when they get exposed to it, even if its only to laugh at it.

8) Since we've last spoken, now we know that The Marvels was a box office disaster. I'm just glad they didn't include Amora in it because my personal idea would have been that for Marvel's premiere female character, her villain should be Marvel's first and previously most popular villainess. There was no need to tie Amora to such a box office flop.

9) Speaking of fairy tales, I remember that Marvel made some fairy tale versions of the Avengers, X-Men, Spider-Man, etc. Were there any stories that ever had Amora? She seems to come across as one of the most obvious choices for any witches or evil queen characters. I remember an Avengers one had Wanda as Wendy, Steve as Peter, and Janet as Tinker Bell.

10) Yeah, Thor seems more or less just based on the cosmic themes now rather than anything from the Old Norse myths and the movies have only further perpetuated that. I thought Hercules would be primed to show up in the MCU now but Thor: Blood and Thunder getting really bad critical reception seems to have killed that idea. I don't think there's any real interest in seeing Hercules come back.

1) True and yeah, it looks like a joke that some people found it fun.
3) That's something I didn't know, I'm glad to know it.
6) I have always seen Sif more at a similar age to Lorelei, with Amora and Loki it is logical and makes sense due to the amount of time they spend or have spent together, hence their dynamic is so interesting when you see them treat each other with as much familiarity same with Thor.
True, many things would be explained about both Amora and Sylvie and that is something that would unite them both a lot, although it was not known exactly how, for Amora it means more than for anyone because of those connections, Lorelei could dress the same way or use the same color, but she decides to be more independent and hence blue fits more for her. Sylvie has a good time in Asgard's past and feels as if the circle has come full circle in her life until she regains her memories in her final moments and dies happy knowing that her daughters, even though they are who they are and whatever path they take, are better than they themselves are capable of recognizing.
7) That is true and it is very clear whether it is an inspiration or a copy that you then polish little by little over the years to differentiate her from her DC counterpart and make it more unique.
8) True, I have not even seen it and I would prefer not to, at Marvel they had to assume that they did not need to do anything else or even promote it because they had to believe that many people should see WandaVision to know Monica Rambeau or see the Ms. Marvel to find out about Kamala Khan and it really has been the biggest disaster, although then I imagine that more people should have seen it on Disney+ than seen it in the cinema.
9) No, I barely remember those miniseries, they were good and were a bit of a light version of DC's Elseworlds or What Ifs in the case of Marvel, the little I have read was entertaining, at DC not long ago they made an incredible and very good miniseries with all the DC characters in medieval times (Dark Knights of Steel I think it was called) and it seemed like a version of Game of Thrones.
10) It was Love and Thunder, it’s true it was another disaster, Thor movies never reached and understand what Asgard and the Asgardians were, so many characters were forgotten like nothing, I’m not sure it there is a point to see a fifth movie of Thor if again Amora the Enchantress or any character can be leaving behind. Personally, I’m so tired of so many cosmic stories, they were boring, always I thought that spending more time with Asgard and all the kingdoms can be a lot better and expanding on their characters even in the least known of them.

[Charlie_1981]

11) That makes sense since Morgana and Lorelei are really not similar people a all. Their relationship dynamics would be so very different. But their chosen redemption paths would give them something to relate to even if they choose different paths as only Lorelei can really earn redemption. It also makes sense to me that Morgana could act the way she did, without worry of consequences, because she knows that she'll always be physically fine until Lorelei drags her to the current time and suddenly the consequences become all too real.

There's something very tragic about how a good Morgana is not good for the destiny of Camelot. That, essentially, Morgana can never be allowed to change or become a better person because doing so will doom the destiny of her kingdom and she's forced to remain as she is. I believe Amora would acknowledge that and understand this predicament especially after their bond deepens.

Thannk you for explaining the timeline so clearly of what happens between Morgana and Amora. How Morgause in her reincarnated form is so very different from Sylvie and Morgana and Amora's friendship tragically must end when Morgana targets Sylvie which Amora cannot stop as she has more pressing matters to deal with. This idea that none of these characters are necessarily doomed to repeat the same patterns and have the agency to break the cycle, even if they aren't necessarily doing so, is a good one. It gives the characters more respect and doesn't leave everything to fate by assuming that they have no choice.

12) Yes, Mordred is Morgana's son by Arthur. Usually Morgause is his aunt or great-aunt in the versions where she is Morgana's aunt. However, in many versions, Morgause steals Mordred from Morgana and raises him which is why he turns out so evil. I think Morgause is only Mordred's real mother in verions where she is combined with Morgana.

It's funny how Sylvie ends up as Alvi's friend/stepsister/grandmother because gods and goddesses taking on multiple roles like this is very common in the ancient pantheons. I don't know how prevalent this was in the Norse myths but it definitely was in the Greek and Egyptian ones. In Egyptian mythology especially, the two main gods were husband/wife, brother/sister, and mother/son. Giving Sylvie these multiple roles helps make her feel a more valid part of the Norse gods.

I see, that makes a lot of sense now in the Morgana/Amora/Sylvie/Morgause dynamic and that Morgana recognizes that her sister has crossed to many lines even if she still feels the need to avenge her.

11) Morgana becomes obsessed with Lorelei because her pride was greatly affected after her defeat and because she considers her someone whose life she has destroyed. Along the way she commits several murders, some justified and others not because she needs relief and alcohol or mead does not Help, she is very good with the sword, better than she seems and perhaps she does not need to depend on a magic that she has lost and that took her years and centuries to improve. The problem comes when Morgana discovers that Lorelei is a better woman than she thought and that although she has apologized for what she did to her, her anger surfaces again when Lorelei does something that a queen should not do, kneel and ask for forgiveness from someone inferior to her, that touches her pride and she ends up taking it as a personal challenge to help her be the queen she should be and even more so being a goddess in addition to the fact of discovering that her revenge has no meaning or relevance because Lorelei already is or was a dead woman who lives in a condition between life and death that provokes more questions than anything else and that even calls into question the existence of her daughters as it is biologically impossible in theory.

Morgana does not change much, but she adapts to her situation and shows that her greatest power is not magic but her intelligence, willpower and her ability to adapt to any situation, which makes her more dangerous. and stronger. Lorelei needs a friend because Sif refuses to be one and she has no choice but to have someone who clearly hates her and with whom she surprisingly has more affinity and that would be Morgana because, even if she didn't put her in a dungeon as soon as she saw her, she needs her because she is more sincere and honest in her words than anyone she knows, including her sister Amora, in addition to the fact that she saved the life of one of her daughters, even if it was involuntary.
Amora is so busy with other things that she has forgotten certain details and she does not know what kind of relationship there is between her sister Lorelei and Morgana, she only asked Morgana one thing and that was that she not get close to her sister Lorelei but for her own safety. and mental health than for her sister who knows she is fine, but can be incredibly stupid if given the opportunity, she has suffered from it her entire life, but she loves her and being apart is better than being together. Amora tries to live her life, but something always happens and with her sister being her queen, her concern is more than justified.

I have thought that in the end the entire story from the beginning to the end requires a great villain to know what you are facing and that the connection is so personal that everyone is affected and involved in her web and that can be Morgause, dies in Broxton but her essence ends up inside the mind of the young Sylvie Lushton and from there it is justified to disappear into the time stream to separate them so that the problem is not greater, which leads to other things that later become more complicated, Morgause as a ghost has The ability to manipulate any type of situation in her favor and with powers over time acquired within the time stream can change anyone's life and perceptions, even affecting entire generations of the same family from their ancestors in the past to their most recent family directly in the future. It also causes Amora's initially absurd Theory or paranoia regarding Sylvie to be used to complicate things by playing with time by manipulating the pieces in such a way that everything is like a puppet show or chess pieces to move.

12) True, hence the very similar names, it was necessary in many adaptations to reduce it to just one, I personally think it would be good if it existed and a better context is given to Morgana herself by giving her her own story and not making it so gray, not all evil queens or sorceresses are so bad, something that in the Once Upon a Time series we see a good form of redemption.

Yes, they would end up having a good relationship, Sylvie does not want to take Iric's place, whom, based on Alvi's words, she would have liked to meet, in addition to how surprised Sylvie is to see that Alvi is not the same as her mother Amora even though he has her traits and that being her friend is an honor, knowing what happens next and the knowledge only makes that bond greater and also gives Alvi a certain peace with her mother Amora although he still doesn't like that she is the way she is, but he likes the fact that if he has a problem she would leave everything for him.

Alvi and Amora end up having a better bond between mother and son just after learning the story of Amora's father and how he was a great hero unfairly forgotten by history although many continued to remember him and that gives Alvi hope that all is not lost in the family. Amora has a hard time explaining the story because it makes her very nervous and she tries to divert her attention to other things so as not to say anything, but the insistence of knowing, forces her to explain it, which Lorelei listens to from afar because it is also important for her to know who was a man whose face she does not remember.

Yes, but although Morgana was practically raised and manipulated by Morgause in many ways during her childhood, Morgana knows that she had to do something because a possible better future was taken from her than the one she ended up having, although having power and being feared by many has also satisfied her. even her battles with her brother Arthur, Merlin and the Knights of the Round Table as well as other threats she has encountered that have only made her stronger and more powerful in addition to gaining knowledge and forming cults around her.

[Charlie_1981]

So time cannot change in your story. Even knowing what will happen does not mean you have the power to alter time to something else. I could see that driving normal human beings mad if they knew what was going to happen but could not do anything about it. It's especially tragic in the case of Sylvie knowing she is destined to lose her husband and that her daughters will not be close. The part where Sylvie actually has to alter the potion that Lorelei makes because it can't work in the timeline is especially tragic as it will set up so much of Lorelei's insecurities from this early failure.

It's very interesting how Amora has a vague idea that Sylvie is connected to her mother and I wonder if she ever considers if Sylvie is a reincarnation since that would seem more plausible than time-displaced. I imagine both sisters having similar thoughts would only increase their belief that they are on the right track, assuming they share these theories of familiarity with each other.

That's sweet of the girl with the force field that knowing what her power does to others, that she tries to compensate by preparing food so that when they wake up, they will have that at least.

14) It makes sense to me that although she cares for Skurge, her son would come first and be the one Amora chooses. And I guess it also makes sense that it's been too long for it to work with her father and even seeing him again would make things feel better for Lorelei but not accomplish anything beyond that.

I like how Amora tries a different approach in becoming close to Morgana because she knows from past experience what has never worked with her and something new might actually succeed.

Change can change but it is a matter of maintaining order because otherwise chaos can destroy everything and something like a person's past, if it is changed or diverted from its path, leads to unsuspected and unpredictable paths, something that has happened on more than one occasion, Amora and Lorelei's lives work the way they do and can only be changed in the present, if something strange happens in what they remember it can lead to things like the disappearance of people who should exist and who can't or people who no one knows who they are, are there for strange reasons (like for example Layla Miller during House of M saga a few years ago, perhaps it could explain the existence of Lorelei and Sigurd's daughters or the psychic changes that Morgana may be going through after losing her magic without even knowing it or irregular heartbeats that can be considered a warning). Lorelei's thing is essential to learn good lessons or how to improve as a person after going through what she must go through. Morgause carries out her revenge by manipulating aspects of Sylvie's current life in the past by not completely disappearing from her mind, without a Loki to do something because at that time he does not yet exist and Odin is young, evil has different ways and one of them is Morgause from Broxton, Amora and Lorelei are inexperienced girls who still have to learn and Asgard's past has to stay as it was.

That may be considered that way at first but certain situations or decisions end up leading to the unexpected, both Amora and Lorelei would have a way of seeing Sylvie in different ways that they can be able to recognize from their mother's traits.

Of course, Sylvie shows great talent in creating food almost at the level of a professional chef. She is normally seen as a naive, stupid girl who doesn't know anything but who has great willpower and a lot of hope and many hidden talents, teaching a little girl a little more control and the fact that she could be a little sister is something she likes.

Yes, although Skurge has recently been seen in comics, both in Avengers Inc. and in the current issues of Thor. Seeing her son Iric again would make Amora feel good and the topic of her father is something that is better to remember because if he lived he would not like what she has become but at least it would make her sister know about him.

It would be a way to know the impact and the effect of Sylvie on many people, although heard for the first time it would be stupid but effective in creating new bonds and a minimum of affinity for another person without being anything romantic, almost like Amora's relationship with Loki and the familiarity with which they treat each other.