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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    He explicitly mentioned that Tigra’s membership of the Avengers as a mark against her trustworthiness when they first met in Defenders Beyond.
    Ah yes, I forgot that part.
    Ironically, it's only recently that the Avengers look like a country club, always making clear that there are core members, the important ones, and glorified interns who never stay long.

    Some characters I could see in Adam's team:

    *One Power Pack member. They always have been close to mutants, befriending the Morlocks, the New Mutants, Kitty and Logan, due to Weezie being editor/writer on several X-books. So it would make sense that they'd want to defend mutants against bigotry.
    It would be either Julie or Alex, since Adam would not accept kids as young as Jack and Katie. Rather Julie to have some gender balance in the team.

    *One Alphan. Alpha Flight always had several mutants in the line-up, so I guess the team members are also quite concerned with anti-mutant bigotry.
    Centennial would be nice. Since he is another superman-ish black dude, who is even older than Blue Marvel, I'd like to see them interact.

    *Justice. Mutant himself and a heart of gold, but almost never involved in mutant affairs.

    *Nova. He got pretty much involved in mutant wars on Mars, so he may as well take another step.

    *Taaia. At this point, she is basically Adam's partner/sidekick/more?. And it's always interesting to have the POW of somebody who comes from a totally different place and is a stranger to both mutants and homo sapiens.

    So here we are: Blue Marvel, Lightspeed, the Centennial, Justice, Nova, Taaia.
    Hmm... Not very diverse, powerset-wise.
    Last edited by mugiwara; 01-25-2024 at 02:37 PM.
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  2. #32
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    I’d love to have Adama and Karnak meet and compare outlooks.

  3. #33
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    What’s Adam’s overall connection with the mutants? I recall him being in a previous x-book and I don’t know if I might’ve missed something.
    I can't say that I have all of Adam's appearances, but my recollection is that Adam hasn't interacted all that much with the X-Men. He did assist them by helping to design a craft for them in X-men Gold, which was published a few short years ago, but I don't recall any substantive team-ups or in depth conversations with the X-folks.

    Having said that, I find it really hard to believe that Adam never crossed paths with the likes of Xavier, Moira, Magneto, etc., who were all more or less active back in the 1960s. Adam, after all, was THE most powerful human being on the planet back in 1961. There's no way that Xavier doesn't use his mental powers to discern his nature. (Is he a friend or foe? Is he a mutant or some new breed of humanity birthed to supplant both homo sapiens and homo superior?)

    Xavier would have definitely checked out Adam. And so, too, would have Magneto, the Shadow King, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, Mystique, Selene, perhaps one of the earlier iterations of the Hellfire Club, and a slew of others. We can only speculate, but perhaps someday a writer will pick up on what we're putting down and deliver a good story on that very subject.

  4. #34
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Ah yes, I forgot that part.
    Ironically, it's only recently that the Avengers look like a country club, always making clear that there are core members, the important ones, and glorified interns who never stay long.

    Some characters I could see in Adam's team:

    *One Power Pack member. They always have been close to mutants, befriending the Morlocks, the New Mutants, Kitty and Logan, due to Weezie being editor/writer on several X-books. So it would make sense that they'd want to defend mutants against bigotry.
    It would be either Julie or Alex, since Adam would not accept kids as young as Jack and Katie. Rather Julie to have some gender balance in the team.

    *One Alphan. Alpha Flight always had several mutants in the line-up, so I guess the team members are also quite concerned with anti-mutant bigotry.
    Centennial would be nice. Since he is another superman-ish black dude, who is even older than Blue Marvel, I'd like to see them interact.

    *Justice. Mutant himself and a heart of gold, but almost never involved in mutant affairs.

    *Nova. He got pretty much involved in mutant wars on Mars, so he may as well take another step.

    *Taaia. At this point, she is basically Adam's partner/sidekick/more?. And it's always interesting to have the POW of somebody who comes from a totally different place and is a stranger to both mutants and homo sapiens.

    So here we are: Blue Marvel, Lightspeed, the Centennial, Justice, Nova, Taaia.
    Hmm... Not very diverse, powerset-wise.
    I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a big fan of Taaia. I love Galactus, but his mother? Not one bit. She needs to promptly go back to whatever iteration of the multiverse she hails from, never to return. I do like some of your other suggestions for a Blue Marvel Defenders of X-Men (DoX?) team.

    ***

    The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Blue Marvel's team should not be comprised of any mutants at all...at least in the early going. It's not that he is deliberately excluding mutants, but when Blue Marvel puts out the call for interested members, maybe he winds up unexpectedly getting only responses from non-mutants? Maybe the distrust in the mutant community is so great -- even with endorsement from Storm and others -- that most mutants avoid the team? After all, Adam has much to prove to his own community. It's only natural that the mutant community would be a tougher sell.

    So I would probably feature a simple team with characters like...


    1. Crusher Creel, the Absorbing Man. Yes, he has a long villainous history, but what he hates more than anything else is mutant bigotry. (Probably out of concern that any children that he and Titania conceive might be mutants.) Adam isn't sure that he can completely trust Creel, but time and time again when the team's back is against the wall, Creel shows up, fighting with everything that he's got and then some. There would be a few good cop, bad cop moments with Adam and Creel on the same team.

    2. Shooting Star. She likely has several close family members that are on the anti-mutant side of things, but she's her own woman and she's determined to do what's right. Her sense of morality, duty and humanity won't let her stand idly by while innocent Americans -- even mutant Americans -- are slaughtered. For transportation I'm tempted to give her Black Fury, a heretofore untamed horse from the 1950s era Reno Browne comics. BF originally existed in the 1800s, so let's just say that it lived a long, valiant life, perished in fire and found itself in Valhalla where it tarried for many years until it could choose a rider. While King Thor decided against direct intervention in the "politics" of humankind, he sent the wingless phantom steed to Adam & company as a sign of solidarity. Nothing scary about a gorgeous cowgirl on a horse, right? (Note: I could sub out Shooting Star with the new Phantom Rider, Jaime Slade.)

    3. Doc Samson. Green hair or not, I think most civilians still consider him a friendly face. I wanted another deep thinker here whose psychological expertise perhaps extends to social group dynamics. This is key, since there won't be any telepaths on the team, and you won't be able to change hearts and minds of the masses of regular humans who fear/despise mutants with a bolt of psionic energy. You'll need someone who can talk people back from the abyss. I expect someone like Doc Samson to do wonders for group outreach.

    4. The Black Knight. I realize this might give this team too much of an Avengers feel, but I need a person who is basically a "normal" human with a readily identifiable and highly symbolic profile. Someone not named Captain America. If BK doesn't work, there's always Union Jack or Mockingbird. But neither embodies truth and justice in action quite like the legendary Black Knight.

    5. Miss America. The original Miss America. I'd resurrect her and establish that she is not now nor ever was a mutant. As for the Whizzer, he can remain dead. Part of her painful backstory, I guess. But she represents the Silent Generation or perhaps the Boomers (I forget exactly how old she is.)

    6. Akasha Martinez. She was once a tremendously powerful version of the Living Pharoah, but she no longer wields those godlike powers. But there's nothing to say that she can't get some of them back to a lesser degree. Besides, full disclosure, I'm a big fan of Egyptian mythology. There's quite a bit I could do with a winged champion who wields a set of various powers each gifted to her by a handful of the gods. Akasha will be emblematic of faith and religion in our democratic plurality.

    7. Deathlok. In true Frankenstein's Monster fashion, he's the mirror...to remind humanity that sometimes the real monster is the person holding the looking glass and imposing their twisted definitions of life on others.

    After Adam gains the mutant community's trust, I would add the following mutants:

    1. Destiny. I envision young, newly resurrected Irene as a total badass and her counsel would prove invaluable to Adam and the team.

    2. Frenzy. Because at a certain point, someone has to call bigots on their b/s and shut it down completely.

    3. Sunfire.

    4. Polaris.

    5. Thunderbird.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Black Knight would be interesting, since the mantle is now shared by Dane and his mutant daughter.

    Not so hot on anti-"flatscan" bigots like Frenzy and Destiny, but at this point I guess the X-office will eventually retcon away any bad things they ever did.
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  6. #36
    Ultimate Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Black Knight would be interesting, since the mantle is now shared by Dane and his mutant daughter.

    Not so hot on anti-"flatscan" bigots like Frenzy and Destiny, but at this point I guess the X-office will eventually retcon away any bad things they ever did.
    ^^^I didn’t know Dane had a daughter.
    Off to Google!

  7. #37
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Black Knight would be interesting, since the mantle is now shared by Dane and his mutant daughter.

    Not so hot on anti-"flatscan" bigots like Frenzy and Destiny, but at this point I guess the X-office will eventually retcon away any bad things they ever did.
    My thinking there is that even mutants have to address their own bigotry, just as victims of abuse invariably have to reckon with their own potential to become abusers themselves if they fail to properly heal from their ordeal. Between Frenzy and Destiny, Frenzy might be the hardest to convince that she needs to change. But I'd probably have her swap places with one of the human members of the team for a spell so that she can get a better understanding of the flipside of the coin. And maybe have her develop a strong emotional bond with one of her human teammates.

    Something similar would occur with Destiny as she befriends Blue Marvel and takes Akasha under her wing. She won't care much for Doc Samson or Miss America, but we can't expect everyone to get along on any team. Destiny will have her favorites and she'll make it known right away.

    As for Destiny, I'd probably write her with slightly different abilities. I'd like to think of her prophetic abilities as something that manifest as she got older, after she lost her original mutant ability. In her younger days, though, she had a different power tied to her sight. The Inhuman Karnak has the ability to see weaknesses in matter. Destiny will have the ability to cause those shatter points with just a look using the Dark Force energy that her eyes project. And at the height of her powers, she'll be able to disrupt matter, energy, even timelines with this power. (Although the one time she attempted that last feat, she lost all of her Dark Force-scope powers.) And the effect isn't flowing lasers from her eyes like Cyclops or Superman. Her eyes simply glow fuchsia and black-spotted energy for a second and whatever she's looking at, be it within arm's reach or 3 miles distant, shatters. She can even crack adamantium with repeated looks. Truly a compelling gaze. Her vision delivers a dark fate to whatever she beholds.

  8. #38
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mace11 View Post

    More Blue Marvel in action with the Illuminati. Tip of the hat to Mace for providing the preview link in another thread.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Black Knight would be interesting, since the mantle is now shared by Dane and his mutant daughter.

    Not so hot on anti-"flatscan" bigots like Frenzy and Destiny, but at this point I guess the X-office will eventually retcon away any bad things they ever did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    ^^^I didn’t know Dane had a daughter. Off to Google!
    Hmm... Looks like the mutant Jackie Chopra, daughter of Dane Whitman, didn't get Charles Xavier's telepathic command to stop and drop everything your doing immediately, tell your baseline family and friends nothing and report to the nearest Krakoan Gate for obligatory conscription within my "For All Ages" polyamorous mutant commune and shag day and night or watch if that's what you like... Latent mutants are welcomed but must be accompanied by a Krakoan Citizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    My thinking there is that even mutants have to address their own bigotry, just as victims of abuse invariably have to reckon with their own potential to become abusers themselves if they fail to properly heal from their ordeal. Between Frenzy and Destiny, Frenzy might be the hardest to convince that she needs to change. But I'd probably have her swap places with one of the human members of the team for a spell so that she can get a better understanding of the flipside of the coin. And maybe have her develop a strong emotional bond with one of her human teammates.

    Something similar would occur with Destiny as she befriends Blue Marvel and takes Akasha under her wing. She won't care much for Doc Samson or Miss America, but we can't expect everyone to get along on any team. Destiny will have her favorites and she'll make it known right away.


    As for Destiny, I'd probably write her with slightly different abilities. I'd like to think of her prophetic abilities as something that manifest as she got older, after she lost her original mutant ability. In her younger days, though, she had a different power tied to her sight. The Inhuman Karnak has the ability to see weaknesses in matter. Destiny will have the ability to cause those shatter points with just a look using the Dark Force energy that her eyes project. And at the height of her powers, she'll be able to disrupt matter, energy, even timelines with this power. (Although the one time she attempted that last feat, she lost all of her Dark Force-scope powers.) And the effect isn't flowing lasers from her eyes like Cyclops or Superman. Her eyes simply glow fuchsia and black-spotted energy for a second and whatever she's looking at, be it within arm's reach or 3 miles distant, shatters. She can even crack adamantium with repeated looks. Truly a compelling gaze. Her vision delivers a dark fate to whatever she beholds.
    That sounds good but any being with powers that can pull a visual "E=MC^2" on reality with a cursory glance must have a weakness in some form or fashion -- well, that is unless your Irene is a multiversal, omnipotent mutant like Ororo Monroe. That said, what weakness did you envision for your reinterpretation of Irene Adler if it's not visual impairment from birth?
    Last edited by Micabe; 02-05-2024 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Link(s) added.

  10. #40
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    Hmm... Looks like the mutant Jackie Chopra, daughter of Dane Whitman, didn't get Charles Xavier's telepathic command to stop and drop everything your doing immediately, tell your baseline family and friends nothing and report to the nearest Krakoan Gate for obligatory conscription within my "For All Ages" polyamorous mutant commune and shag day and night or watch if that's what you like... Latent mutants are welcomed but must be accompanied by a Krakoan Citizen.



    That sounds good but any being with powers that can pull a visual "E=MC^2" on reality with a cursory glance must have a weakness in some form or fashion -- well, that is unless your Irene is a multiversal, omnipotent mutant like Ororo Monroe. That said, what weakness did you envision for your reinterpretation of Irene Adler if it's not visual impairment from birth?
    Irene's weakness would be steeped in character and personal foibles. Her heart in particular would be a problem for her. While she can see where to shatter something, and later in life tell you about your future, in her early years she'd have a problem seeing people for who they really are...and on more than one occasion, that would come back to bite her. That flaw would be compounded by her inability to see the best path of healing for herself. Her prophetic powers somehow work for others, but rarely for herself in that respect, as she would envision a number of possible outcomes, but oddly enough, always pick the worst option for herself. So, there will be a bit of self-distrust that she'll spend her entire life trying to overcome.

  11. #41
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Default A Change Gon' Come!

    One of the things that I like about relaunching the Ultimate universe is that it gives us a chance to view our favorite characters in a fresh new light with boundless possibilities.

    If Marvel handed you full creative rights on an Ultimate Blue Marvel title, how would you reimagine the character? What aspects of his character and history would you keep? What would you change? What supporting characters would you add? Who would be his archenemy? What role would he play on Ultimate Earth?
    “True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice.”
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  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    One of the things that I like about relaunching the Ultimate universe is that it gives us a chance to view our favorite characters in a fresh new light with boundless possibilities.

    If Marvel handed you full creative rights on an Ultimate Blue Marvel title, how would you reimagine the character? What aspects of his character and history would you keep? What would you change? What supporting characters would you add? Who would be his archenemy? What role would he play on Ultimate Earth?
    I haven't read the new Ultimate Marvel books as they've come out. If it was up to me, I'd put Adam's unmasking a little further back in time, with the Eisenhower administration.
    Given what President Eisenhower allegedly did and said regarding the rise of Patrice Lumumba in the then-newly liberated Congo, https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...0/martinkettle

    I wouldn't put it past him to order a plan in place to look to take out a popular superhero who turned out to be a black man.

    Anti-Man can still be the main villain. I'd invent some more villains to go along with it, as well as a lot of cold war intrigue. Russian metahumans, others set up against him.

  13. #43
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Saw this image and thought to myself that this needs to happen, perhaps in the Ultimate universe. A group of young kids who find themselves receiving a fraction of Adam Brashear's power, all representing various colors of the spectrum. So, there would be a Purple Marvel, Orange Marvel, Red Marvel, Gold Marvel, Black Marvel, Jade Marvel, etc., etc. Ok, ok, maybe those wouldn't be their code names, but the world would know them simply as ... The Marvels!
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    “True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice.”
    ~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    “If I love you, I have to make you conscious of what you don’t see.”
    ~James Baldwin

  14. #44
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Now that Monica Rambeau is no longer in the picture, who should be Adam's next Valentine?

  15. #45
    Mighty Member marvelprince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Now that Monica Rambeau is no longer in the picture, who should be Adam's next Valentine?
    I want Monica back. As much as I hated them together initially, I can so clearly now see them as the modern take on the FF that I want to see continue. If not her, maybe something with Taia?

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