Why do people hate current DC legacy characters so much?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Problems:

1. New Characters (nowadays) get to powerful just from beginning, while other generations had to grow into their roles:
Conner Kent vs Jonathan Samuel Kent

2. Characters who achieved a lot in their lifes get pushed aside for new characters who are only pushed
Conner Kent vs Jonathan Samuel Kent
Conner was the only guy who was able to fight against Superboy Prime WITHOUT using red sun etc. and sacrificied his life, but now he is treated like a complete rookie

3. DC didnt manage to set the ages of characters and their Codenames right:
Flash Family is a good example:
Wallace West is still around and has the most prestigious Codename (Kid Flash), while Bart had to go back to Impulse and Irey had to get a new Code-name and Costume

Wallace West should have got a new Codename (AND another design) to make him stand out more than just being a Kid Flash
Both (Irey West and Bart Allen) would have been better choices for Kid Flash than Wallace

Irey is a cool character, BUT I HATE the boring design of her current costume

Its also annoying that Jonathan/Conner, Bart/Wallace... are seemingly similar in age, it would be better if Conner/Bart/Cassie would be CLEARLY OLDER than Jonathan/Wallace/Yara.....

The first is more of a balance issue between the characters. Giving the characters more distinct powers and set strengths and weaknesses would help. But that's more of a worldbuilding issue. Marvel and DC tends to feel like a lap and slap job when it comes to worldbuilding but it's not something they can fix overnight. The soft reboot approach DC favors makes thing worse.

People tend to say shonen battle manga are better than marvel and DC. Worldbuilding is the one issue I'd say that it definitely is.

I agree about the second. It's hard to care about a character that only pops up once a while.

Organizations like Titans Academy, Batman Inc, Avengers Initiative, JLU would keep legacy characters active without putting out more solos, backups, team books. Plus they can be used as a hook for a future solo book and starts to solve the first issue i spoke about.

I preferred the more distinct codenamed over the shared titles. The Signal is a lame choice but I prefer Duke as the Signal than Robin VII. So letting Bart stay as Impulse while Irey is Thunderheart and Jai is Surge works for me.

Ironically Yara has little in story incentive to be Wonder Girl or Wonder Woman so giving her a more unique codename would work better. Plus it pays off her running gag of not wanting to be Wonder Girl.

I like the idea of legacies but often I find them dissapointing or poorly handled.

[Goldrake]

The first is more of a balance issue between the characters. Giving the characters more distinct powers and set strengths and weaknesses would help. But that's more of a worldbuilding issue. Marvel and DC tends to feel like a lap and slap job when it comes to worldbuilding but it's not something they can fix overnight. The soft reboot approach DC favors makes thing worse.

People tend to say shonen manga are better than marvel and DC. Worldbuilding is the one issue I'd say that it definitely is.

I agree about the second. It's hard to care about a character that only pops up once a while.

Organizations like Titans Academy, Batman Inc, Avengers Initiative, JLU would keep legacy characters active without putting out more solos, backups, team books. Plus they can be used as a hook for a future solo book and starts to solve the first issue i spoke about.

I preferred the more distinct codenamed over the shared titles. The Signal is a lame choice but I prefer Duke as the Signal than Robin VII. So letting Bart stay as Impulse while Irey is Thunderheart and Jai is Surge works for me.

Ironically Yara has little in story incentive to be Wonder Girl or Wonder Woman so giving her a more unique codename would work better. Plus it pays off her running gag of not wanting to be Wonder Girl.

I like the idea of legacies but often I find them dissapointing or poorly handled.

In my opinion instead for opting for names like Wonder Girl or Superboy etc I would go for something new, Amazon woman etc

Many people view them as replacements, they will always see them as copies of originals. Much better putting them in a setting that derives loosely from the original character at the beginning but that will develop into its own. Without being bound with being the new Batman, Superman etc. Their own characters. With an organization that is not necessary a copy of the Justice League but something different.
As they are, they will always at one point come to a collusion with the original ones, adding to confusion in continuity, whats canon anymore etc. Or having to thread into the footsteps of characters that they will never be able to replace. You cannot replace 85 years of history in matter of few years.

Manga is better not just because of world building only, there are many reasons, Current American comic industry cannot catch up with Manga, unless they make a 360 degree turn and ditch how they see comics for a total new approach. I doubt they also have the ability to do that.
Lately was reading Angel heart by Tsukasa Hojo which includes characters from his City Hunter manga but its not a continuation, but a parallel universe. It gives them option to create new stories and characters without the constraints of continuity.

[BohemiaDrinker]

You give too much importance to those 50 dudes with a camera. Many people don't even know they exist. If those guys are the problem the solution would be easy. The problems facing legacy minority characters cannot just be reduced to some guys on youtube. Just as those who don't like these characters aren't all racists or bigots.

you misread me. I give no importance to those guys whatsoever. But it's very easy for them to trap new readers or people unfamiliar with comic discussions online in a bubble and make it seem like their opinions is widespread.

[Goldrake]

you misread me. I give no importance to those guys whatsoever. But it's very easy for them to trap new readers or people unfamiliar with comic discussions online in a bubble and make it seem like their opinions is widespread.

If people are swayed by these folks maybe they want to be swayed. However Personally I think people are intelligent enough form their own opinions. If they search for those guys they might want to be trapped or seek others who might think like them.
The problems facing the American comic world are not because of these guys, some of whom I heard use those videos as bait to promote their own produced comics. As I said before while I give them no importance, I don't like either people calling bigots or racists others because someone does not like a character or a run. Same used to apply when people blamed Batfans for buying just bat related books. Preferences will always be subjective.

[BohemiaDrinker]

The Numbers have Brazil at 2M while Boxofficemojo at 8M, both differ in overseas total by 2 million. Even if the 8 million is correct for Brazil, makes it more confusing, since Brazilians who are portuguese speaking seem to have appreciated the American Mexican character more than Mexicans(spanish speaking) themselves.

Bruna Marquezine is in it and she's kind of a big deal here in Brazil.

[BohemiaDrinker]

If people are swayed by these folks maybe they want to be swayed. However Personally I think people are intelligent enough form their own opinions. If they search for those guys they might want to be trapped or seek others who might think like them.

That's not quite right. Social algorithms these days tend to lead you into controversy on purpose and then tap you in a bubble of similar content. That said, I never said that anyone was swayed by anything. What I said, and I think I was clear, but who knows, it's that it's s pretty easy for these guys who know how to work the algorithms in their favor to make poorly informed people belive they are a majority of that the made up issues they point are a real.

The problems facing the American comic world are not because of these guys, some of whom I heard use those videos as bait to promote their own produced comics. As I said before while I give them no importance, I don't like either people calling bigots or racists others because someone does not like a character or a run. Same used to apply when people blamed Batfans for buying just bat related books. Preferences will always be subjective

I made no statements about what the problem with American industry is , nor did I call anyone a bigot outside of actual bigots. Did someone call you a bigot? It wasn't me. I don't understand what you're objecting to in my posts.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

In my opinion instead for opting for names like Wonder Girl or Superboy etc I would go for something new, Amazon woman etc

Many people view them as replacements, they will always see them as copies of originals. Much better putting them in a setting that derives loosely from the original character at the beginning but that will develop into its own. Without being bound with being the new Batman, Superman etc. Their own characters. With an organization that is not necessary a copy of the Justice League but something different.
As they are, they will always at one point come to a collusion with the original ones, adding to confusion in continuity, whats canon anymore etc. Or having to thread into the footsteps of characters that they will never be able to replace. You cannot replace 85 years of history in matter of few years.

Manga is better not just because of world building only, there are many reasons, Current American comic industry cannot catch up with Manga, unless they make a 360 degree turn and ditch how they see comics for a total new approach. I doubt they also have the ability to do that.
Lately was reading Angel heart by Tsukasa Hojo which includes characters from his City Hunter manga but its not a continuation, but a parallel universe. It gives them option to create new stories and characters without the constraints of continuity.

I'm not comparing all of manga and all of american comics. I'm just comparing Marvel and DC to Shonen battle manga.

[skyvolt2000]

I don't like either people calling bigots or racists others because someone does not like a character or a run.

It comes down to this-"Tell you didn't look at preview or INSIDE the book without tell me."

Folks who have issues with the books chirp louder than the ones who are just not interested in the books.

It's folks who have offered NO opinion on these books suddenly feel the need to talk when POC are used.

Batman when Duke was in it. A person said they have read Batman for 30 years but DRAW the line at his partner being a black boy and were DONE with the book. That is the deal breaker not all the times Bruce got replaced or rehashed storylines-Duke Thomas was the straw that broke the back.

And we are seeing too much of that. Way too much of "these books with POC or LGBTQA+ should NOT exist because I say so. Because they are going after folks I feel have no business in this hobby unless they are buying the books I like."

When you get too much hatred tossed at a character based on skin or gender-yes you will see those terms tossed out at folks who are not just interested in the book.


It's those 50 losers with youtubes, crappy crowd fund books and nasty attitude that get everyone tossed under a broad banner.

[Redjack]

It's those 50 losers with youtubes, crappy crowd fund books and nasty attitude that get everyone tossed under a broad banner.

all of this.

[Goldrake]

It's those 50 losers with youtubes, crappy crowd fund books and nasty attitude that get everyone tossed under a broad banner.

You made valid points, I agree with you, but not to be at their (low) dirty level, don't not toss everyone under a banner, simply because someone has no interest. I know it is not easy and easier said than done. I fear that by doing that we are just pushing people away.

[marvelprince]

If people are swayed by these folks maybe they want to be swayed. However Personally I think people are intelligent enough form their own opinions. If they search for those guys they might want to be trapped or seek others who might think like them.
The problems facing the American comic world are not because of these guys, some of whom I heard use those videos as bait to promote their own produced comics. As I said before while I give them no importance, I don't like either people calling bigots or racists others because someone does not like a character or a run. Same used to apply when people blamed Batfans for buying just bat related books. Preferences will always be subjective.

As someone who searched comics on YouTube and initially was only presented with these Anti-SJW type videos I can see how people can inadvertently end up being swayed. A friend of mine who I love fell into that cause he was a huge fan of EVS and believed everything he was saying cause he worked at DC and must know how this stuff works. It didn't take more than one critical thinking conversation to help him understand what happened but its pretty easy for the unsuspecting to be sucked in.

[9th.]

Problems:

1. New Characters (nowadays) get to powerful just from beginning, while other generations had to grow into their roles:
Conner Kent vs Jonathan Samuel Kent

2. Characters who achieved a lot in their lifes get pushed aside for new characters who are only pushed
Conner Kent vs Jonathan Samuel Kent
Conner was the only guy who was able to fight against Superboy Prime WITHOUT using red sun etc. and sacrificied his life, but now he is treated like a complete rookie

3. DC didnt manage to set the ages of characters and their Codenames right:
Flash Family is a good example:
Wallace West is still around and has the most prestigious Codename (Kid Flash), while Bart had to go back to Impulse and Irey had to get a new Code-name and Costume

Wallace West should have got a new Codename (AND another design) to make him stand out more than just being a Kid Flash
Both (Irey West and Bart Allen) would have been better choices for Kid Flash than Wallace

Irey is a cool character, BUT I HATE the boring design of her current costume

Its also annoying that Jonathan/Conner, Bart/Wallace... are seemingly similar in age, it would be better if Conner/Bart/Cassie would be CLEARLY OLDER than Jonathan/Wallace/Yara.....

Not sure about the whole code name thing but the biggest problem here is them being way too close in age, that much I agree with. The field is too crowded. Also from what I remember Bart fans didn't really for him having the KF mantle/name any way.

[9th.]

As someone who searched comics on YouTube and initially was only presented with these Anti-SJW type videos I can see how people can inadvertently end up being swayed. A friend of mine who I love fell into that cause he was a huge fan of EVS and believed everything he was saying cause he worked at DC and must know how this stuff works. It didn't take more than one critical thinking conversation to help him understand what happened but its pretty easy for the unsuspecting to be sucked in.

All it takes is one time to accidentally click on one of those videos to mess your algorithms.

[Triniking1234]

As someone who searched comics on YouTube and initially was only presented with these Anti-SJW type videos I can see how people can inadvertently end up being swayed. A friend of mine who I love fell into that cause he was a huge fan of EVS and believed everything he was saying cause he worked at DC and must know how this stuff works. It didn't take more than one critical thinking conversation to help him understand what happened but its pretty easy for the unsuspecting to be sucked in.

YouTubers like ThinkingCritical, YellowFlash and EVS mostly target comic book readers around their generation which I assume that's why your friend was a fan of them.

Most new readers try to get into comics (from the big Two) from movies and other media and run away when they realise it's more work than getting into manga and they don't even stick around long enough to meet the anti-SJW crowd.

[j9ac9k]

Comicsgaters are not the main problem and acting as though people think they are is an easy strawman by those willfully ignorant to the larger issue of systemic racism. The ham-fisted rhetoric of the left doesn't help because they make it easy to dismiss the idea outright by those who aren't racist, yet refuse to even consider their potential culpability in perpetuating an unjust status quo. I'm not trying to finger point - I'm proposing that the back-and-forth finger pointing and defensiveness has resulted in a shutdown of discussion about the larger societal issues. Worse, the adversarial nature of the discourse has eroded sympathy towards addressing the issue, let alone trying to find a solution.

And yes, an example of all this has been how some of these legacy characters have been introduced, and the resulting reactions.