Why do people hate current DC legacy characters so much?

[Hol]

Or we could just include more of other species in the Corps since it makes no sense to limit it to just one.



He also got a lot of hate when he debuted. It's died down now, especially since Ted is back.

I don't recall the backlash. I only recall people being upset that Ted was killed and that it was Max that did it. They seemed more upset that the change to Max was out of character. Nothing to do with Jaime.

[Goldrake]

I cannot disagree more with this. To act like peoples opinions are nothing but coded racism for 98% of the backlash is reductive. It means an honest conversation cannot happen with respects to each character and why someone may or may not like them.

Hell, on this board alone in the Alan Scott thread there are quite a few posters who said they love the idea of Alan being gay and felt like there was real opportunity for a good story here. (myself included) But they also feel that the book is ALL about him being gay and that it feels like there is a) nothing else to his personality and b) that is ALL that the story is about.

Now, whether they are right or not is debatable...but to act like their opinion is coded bigotry is incorrect. It is so reductive. And it makes people look bad when they just label it one thing without having a substantive discussion about it.

spot on. Reducing everything to bigotry is incorrect and reductive. If comicgaters are fundamentalists and racists, those labeling others as racist for expressing a different opinion betrays intolerance. Some people cannot accept that others don't share their same opinion or likes. No wonder people are giving up on discussing comics, why to get caught between two extremes.
We all have our favorite characters, so If somebody buys Batman only, he is a hater of any other character? If I like to buy Superman, does it make me a misogynist as I don't buy Wonder Woman? Tastes are and will always be subjective to one's personal preferences, If I don't like Asian food makes me racist towards Asian people? Or do we have to align ourselves to what pleases other.

[Dboi2001]

wasn’t the point of New 52 to just reset every to the old status quo?

[Dboi2001]

That is NOT true.

Not true at ALL.

Kamala wasn't expected to last beyond issue 7 of her book. G Willow Wilson will tell you that. You don't last to the tune of over 80 solo issues based on your race.
There was a reason her and Carol's trades sold as well as they did for a long time.

Carol is on volume 7 as Cap Marvel.
Kamal is on volume 4.

Daredevil is on volume 7.
Cap America is on volume 11.
Moon Knight is on volume 9.
Punisher is on volume 13.

How did we miss THOSE relaunches???
Including the Marvel company wide relaunches that all books had at the same time? The 4 times they did it.



Like Emma Frost???
Like Dick Grayson??
Like Supergirl?
Like Catwoman?
How much cheesecake art have those guys produced? Especially Emma?



15 years ago is 2008.

Carol has over 150 solo issues since 2006.
Kamala is at 90 since 2011.

That is more than Kyle Rayner. More than Ted Kord, Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Cyborg, Starfire, Adam Strange and Peacemaker. All of whom have had solos or duos that didn't sell.
Folks not making sales-so why are they still around?

Carol and Kamala PAID their bills.

Cyborg "push" started at the same time as Miles Morales's arrival in 2011.
Miles will hit 150 solo issues in 2025.
Cyborg will need 10 years to catch up as he only has 39 in that same time frame.

Funny these hated legacies are doing better than the original characters that so many scream deserve books.

I don’t know about Kamala Khan Ms. Marvel titles but Carol has had like 7 relaunches and they all go through the same formula. New Issue 1 sells extremely well, completely craters, floats around the 80-outside too 100 on the charts for the next several issues until cancellation, rinse and repeat.

[Triniking1234]

wasn’t the point of New 52 to just reset every to the old status quo?

That was DC Rebirth.

[lefthanded]

You give too much importance to those 50 dudes with a camera. Many people don't even know they exist. If those guys are the problem the solution would be easy. The problems facing legacy minority characters cannot just be reduced to some guys on youtube. Just as those who don't like these characters aren't all racists or bigots.

Agreed. If the problem is so obvious that amateur Youtube creators can identify the problem & solution, then that means DC (and WB) are just willing to risk millions and millions of dollars not implementing the simple fix. People on the internet/social media who have the 'solution' for companies' business practices, is such an obviously snakeoil scheme. It is the same thing with sports fans thinking they know better than the coach/GM of their team.

To your last point - I didn't care about Jaime Blue Beetle .... because I didn't care about Ted Blue Beetle.
People are drawn to or ignore different fictional characters for a myriad of reasons (and yes, racism can be a part of that), but it is entirely reductive to distill it entirely to race because a few bigots say it is so.

[Cyberstrike]

spot on. Reducing everything to bigotry is incorrect and reductive. If comicgaters are fundamentalists and racists, those labeling others as racist for expressing a different opinion betrays intolerance. Some people cannot accept that others don't share their same opinion or likes. No wonder people are giving up on discussing comics, why to get caught between two extremes.
We all have our favorite characters, so If somebody buys Batman only, he is a hater of any other character? If I like to buy Superman, does it make me a misogynist as I don't buy Wonder Woman? Tastes are and will always be subjective to one's personal preferences, If I don't like Asian food makes me racist towards Asian people? Or do we have to align ourselves to what pleases other.

Bigots and racists are should never and not worth the time to debate. They need to told to sit down and shut their damn mouths.

[Noodle]

I don’t know about Kamala Khan Ms. Marvel titles but Carol has had like 7 relaunches and they all go through the same formula. New Issue 1 sells extremely well, completely craters, floats around the 80-outside too 100 on the charts for the next several issues until cancellation, rinse and repeat.

That's every Marvel book. Thor, Hulk, Daredevil, The Avengers and Captain America have all had their umpteenth relaunches within the past few months.

[HsssH]

A Green Lantern Corps book? The aver



The average X-Men team book has more than twice the number of well known Green Lanterns.

I guess I have a different definition for "prominently" word.

[Goldrake]

Bigots and racists are should never and not worth the time to debate. They need to told to sit down and shut their damn mouths.

If we believe that a bunch of youtubers are THE problem we are giving them importance they don't deserve. If they are they Problem it would be an easy fix.

[Hol]

Bigots and racists are should never and not worth the time to debate. They need to told to sit down and shut their damn mouths.

These days you can be labeled a bigot or racist for just expressing the opinions I outlined above about the Alan Scott book. The bigot or racist words are thrown around so much these days I take it with a HUGE grain of salt when someone accuses people of that awful point of view.

[The Darknight Detective]

spot on. Reducing everything to bigotry is incorrect and reductive. If comicgaters are fundamentalists and racists, those labeling others as racist for expressing a different opinion betrays intolerance. Some people cannot accept that others don't share their same opinion or likes. No wonder people are giving up on discussing comics, why to get caught between two extremes.
We all have our favorite characters, so If somebody buys Batman only, he is a hater of any other character? If I like to buy Superman, does it make me a misogynist as I don't buy Wonder Woman? Tastes are and will always be subjective to one's personal preferences, If I don't like Asian food makes me racist towards Asian people? Or do we have to align ourselves to what pleases other.

I guess the best way to see if there is something significant to the bias claim is compare legacy sale percentage increases or decreases to their predecessors. Obviously, if the code name is a popular one, you can get enough sales to stay afloat regardless of race or sexual identity. Replacing a B- or C-lister, OTOH, is a different story.

[Goldrake]

To your last point - I didn't care about Jaime Blue Beetle .... because I didn't care about Ted Blue Beetle.
People are drawn to or ignore different fictional characters for a myriad of reasons (and yes, racism can be a part of that), but it is entirely reductive to distill it entirely to race because a few bigots say it is so.

Agreed, racism will always be a part, You will always find the bigot or misogynist. However regarding that movie my greatest disappointment was the lack of support it got from Latinos. Honestly I expected better. For Instance The Flash which isn't a memorable movie, in Mexico it made 19M while Blue Beetle 6M slightly above the UK. BB from the rest of Latino countries made nothing noteworthy. Character popularity is an important element here despite demos, otherwise if the poor showing of this movie is all due to racism, than we are surrounded by racists everywhere.

However if we use just use character popularity in comics as the only metric, Flash should trounce Aquaman. Or the later should not have the best BO for DC. Although one must say that comic readership might not be measure of popularity for these characters with non comic audiences. Probably we comic readers live in a world of ours.

[DochaDocha]

Agreed, racism will always be a part, You will always find the bigot or misogynist. However regarding that movie my greatest disappointment was the lack of support it got from Latinos. Honestly I expected better. For Instance The Flash which isn't a memorable movie, in Mexico it made 19M while Blue Beetle 6M slightly above the UK. BB from the rest of Latino countries made nothing noteworthy. Character popularity is an important element here despite demos, otherwise if the poor showing of this movie is all due to racism, than we are surrounded by racists everywhere.

However if we use just use character popularity in comics as the only metric, Flash should trounce Aquaman. Or the later should not have the best BO for DC. Although one must say that comic readership might not be measure of popularity for these characters with non comic audiences. Probably we comic readers live in a world of ours.

Was BB marketed well in Latin America? I'm curious.

I'm also reminded about how Crazy Rich Asians was not all that popular in Asia itself because those audiences are already used to seeing Asians on screen, except the movies they're used to watching actually have Asians speaking in the local language. Maybe in this case, having Latin actors just doesn't have much novelty for LATAM audiences.

[Leancarp900]

Was BB marketed well in Latin America? I'm curious.

I'm also reminded about how Crazy Rich Asians was not all that popular in Asia itself because those audiences are already used to seeing Asians on screen, except the movies they're used to watching actually have Asians speaking in the local language. Maybe in this case, having Latin actors just doesn't have much novelty for LATAM audiences.

Blue Beetle is a mexican-american hero. Somebody from Argentina or Brazil would not necessarily feel represented by him.