DC Comics saying they own Machine Man not marvel?

[Gaastra]

Huh?


https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...n-machine-man/

Earlier this week, Bleeding Cool took a look at when DC Comics realised that Warner Bros. owned lots of intellectual property that they could turn into comic books. Even though they didn't do a lot of it. But we got Mad Max, Hanna Barbera, Lost Boys and Django Unchained comic books out of it, Just no Dirty Harry, Goonies or Mortal Kombat.

But I did discover that, as part of the journey, DC Comics decided that they owned Marvel's Machine Man character. All because he began as X-51, a character in the Jack Kirby adaptation and continuation of the Stanley Kubrick movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, published by Marvel in the seventies. And because Warner Bros. owns that movie, they also own the comic book and the continuing series.


I also understand that DC Comics has now informed Marvel that they believe that they own Machine Man, and future publication may entail some elaboration manoeuvers in the copyright indicia on Marvel's part in order to comply with various copyright and trademark requirements. And also DC Comics might just reprint the 2001 adaptation by Jack Kirby if they feel so minded…

Jack Kirby wrote and pencilled both the adaptation of 2001: A Space Odyssey and the ten-issue series which followed in 1976, and the project was part of the agreement of Kirby's return to Marvel, after working for DC Comics in the Fourth World titles. Kirby incorporated additional dialogue to the adaptation from the Arthur C Clarke novel and an earlier draft of the screenplay.

In issue #8, Kirby introduces Mister Machine, the robot X-51. who gains sentience and thanks to an encounter with a Monolith, takes the name Aaron Stack and tries to hide amongst humanity. When 2001: A Space Odyssey would soon come to an end, but the character was given his own series shortly after, reportedly renamed Machine Man due to a naming conflict with an Ideal Toys robot named Mr. Machine. Subsequently and the character would then appear in the likes of Thor, Iron Man, Machine Man 2020, Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E, NextWAVE and the Iron Man 2020 event.

But hey, with Warners and DC saying what they say, how about making him a new ember of the Justice League? I'm sorry, I mean Justice Gang…

What do you guys think of this?

[superduperman]

Well, that's awkward. Looks like we won't be getting another reprinting of JLA/Avengers again anytime soon.

[James Cameron]

That doesn't make sense to me and it doesn't track with similar cases in history.

For example, Marvel doesn't own Rom, but they do own everything else they had in that series like the Spaceknights and Dire Wraiths. They don't own Godzilla, but they do own Doctor Demonicus.

Going by this logic it makes absolutely no sense that DC would own Machine Man. Where exactly did Rich "discover" this info?

[BohemiaDrinker]

Just trade the "claim" of the character for the name Captain Marvel. Everyone benefits,

[Thor-Ul]

I just wonder if this is DC pushing against Marvel or if it is Warner pushing against Disney.
It would be kind of ironic anyway if the same year Disney lost OG Mickey Mouse to Public Domain, they could lost a Marvel character to hteir competition. Even if its a c-list character.

[Robotman]

Would they even own the name Machine Man or would they have to call him X-51?

If they are really claiming that they own Machine Man it would seem that they’re just trying to cause some strife because I doubt they would actually have any use for the character.

[OBrianTallent]

yeah, this seems to be a case of exaggeration. much in the same way that Marvel owns Marionette and Bug from Micronauts but not Micronauts proper...So there's room for debate on what wb actually owns in regards to 2001 A Space Odyssey. Ostensibly I would say that in light of Gunn and Safran looking over the DC catalogue of characters, things like this have come up and legal has decided to see what they can push. I doubt it goes anywhere at all.

[superduperman]

I don't know if this is the same situation as Rom. Dire wraiths were created specifically by Marvel for a Marvel comic. Marvel can use them whenever they want, they just can't use Rom. Someone on the BC comments suggested that he falls under a concept called trademark abandonment. Since Marvel has been publishing him for the last 50 years, Marvel might have a good case here. But I will say that Marvel tends to create problems for themselves by putting all the characters they license out into their own universe. Like Conan.

[James Cameron]

I don't know if this is the same situation as Rom. Dire wraiths were created specifically by Marvel for a Marvel comic. Marvel can use them whenever they want, they just can't use Rom. Someone on the BC comments suggested that he falls under a concept called trademark abandonment. Since Marvel has been publishing him for the last 50 years, Marvel might have a good case here. But I will say that Marvel tends to create problems for themselves by putting all the characters they license out into their own universe. Like Conan.

How is it not the same situation? Machine Man was also created by Marvel (Kirby) for a Marvel comic. Marvel can use him whenever they want.

[MRP]

I don't know if this is the same situation as Rom. Dire wraiths were created specifically by Marvel for a Marvel comic. Marvel can use them whenever they want, they just can't use Rom. Someone on the BC comments suggested that he falls under a concept called trademark abandonment. Since Marvel has been publishing him for the last 50 years, Marvel might have a good case here. But I will say that Marvel tends to create problems for themselves by putting all the characters they license out into their own universe. Like Conan.

The Dire Wraiths were in the initial pitch Parker Brothers sent to Marvel. The video pitch is out there on youtube if you want to see it. Marvel created the look and powers of the Dire Wraiths, but the concept was Parker Brothers (now Hasbro) which is why IDW could use the Wraiths with a different look in their Rom comic a few years back.

If WB wanted to push it, they would have to show that X-51 was a derivative work of the 2001 IP not an original creation. The fact he was altered/created by the Monolith in the story might give them some firm ground to stand on. Without the Monolith, there's no character, so derivative. That's different than Bug and crew who were created and added to the IP, not necessarily derived form it. A better example of it is Red Sonja, which though based in REH's Hyborian Age and modeled after Howard's Sonya of Rogatino character, was ruled not to be derivative and it's own property. However, it was not owned by Marvel either, because it was created specifically for the license, and Red Sonja LLC came into existence as the rightsholder of that IP.

However, in all things legal battles with IP, there's a lot of shades of gray and multiple interpretations, and it often comes down to who's willing to spend more than who has the better case, because if it every gets to a jury trial, juries can be fickle and unpredictable, so most companies want to win the battle in a war of attrition before it gets to trial.

-M

[Username taken]

This is a bit of a stretch and it really sounds more like WB making a play here and not DC per se.

From the article, it looks like WB is looking for content to mine and they've stumbled upon this.

[j9ac9k]

Unless any of us are lawyers or have seen the specific legal rights agreements that were signed way back when that adaptation was created, all we can do is speculate which doesn't interest me.

What does interest me is the idea that someone might finally do something substantial with MM again, even if it's just out of spite or legal reasons! I've always had a soft spot for Aaron and thought he could do well with as a tv series - and separated from the other heroes where being a living machine seems less special with Hulk, Thor and Vision standing next to him. A show that was like his old Kirby series could be cool - it was like the Hulk show: traveling around, trying to avoid being captured by the army while doing good deeds for strangers along the way and finding out what it's like to be human. I even like that he's not the biggest fan of humanity - I can relate to that.

[CaptCleghorn]

Unless any of us are lawyers or have seen the specific legal rights agreements that were signed way back when that adaptation was created, all we can do is speculate which doesn't interest me.

This is what I think as well. Who knows what the idea was when Marvel got the 2001 ongoing series rights? With Rom, and Micronauts there were defined sides and characters, licensed and created. 2001 was something else altogether.

[HsssH]

My conspiracy theory is that Gunn wanted to use MM in his Guardians movies, but Disney's lawyers said that it is not a clear situation on his ownership. So Gunn still wants to use him and passed this info to WB's lawyers.

[Agent Z]

From Bleeding Cool

Earlier this week, Bleeding Cool took a look at when DC Comics realised that Warner Bros. owned lots of intellectual property that they could turn into comic books. Even though they didn't do a lot of it. But we got Mad Max, Hanna Barbera, Lost Boys and Django Unchained comic books out of it, Just no Dirty Harry, Goonies or Mortal Kombat.

But I did discover that, as part of the journey, DC Comics decided that they owned Marvel's Machine Man character. All because he began as X-51, a character in the Jack Kirby adaptation and continuation of the Stanley Kubrick movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, published by Marvel in the seventies. And because Warner Bros. owns that movie, they also own the comic book and the continuing series.

I also understand that DC Comics has now informed Marvel that they believe that they own Machine Man, and future publication may entail some elaboration manoeuvers in the copyright indicia on Marvel's part in order to comply with various copyright and trademark requirements. And also DC Comics might just reprint the 2001 adaptation by Jack Kirby if they feel so minded…

Jack Kirby wrote and pencilled both the adaptation of 2001: A Space Odyssey and the ten-issue series which followed in 1976, and the project was part of the agreement of Kirby's return to Marvel, after working for DC Comics in the Fourth World titles. Kirby incorporated additional dialogue to the adaptation from the Arthur C Clarke novel and an earlier draft of the screenplay.