What would you want from an “Ultimate Superman”?

[Vordan]

There’s been rumors that Scott Snyder is returning to DC this year to head up an “Ultimate DC” line, and in the latest issue of his newsletter he says he’s returning to superheroes with announcements coming soon. I wanted therefore to make a thread and ask you guys what would you want to see if the Ultimate DC rumors turn out to be true.

1. Who would you want the writer to be?
2. Who would you want the artist to be?
3. What should be different from the current Earth 0 incarnation of Superman?
4. What should be the same?



1. I’d pick Dan Watters to write this. Watters has proven himself to be a resourceful up and comer writer. He’s dipped his toe in the Superman sandbox before - he wrote Jon & Yara in FS, Clark in R&B, and Kara & J’onn in the Doomsday Special - but never in a major ongoing capacity. That’s crucial for any “Ultimate” take. If you look at Ultimate Spidey, neither Bendis nor Hickman had done a Spider-Man book before they got the gig, and I think that approach would work well for Superman. His knack for horror and high concept scifi could give an Ultimate Superman book a very different tone from the mainline in the wake of PKJ departing Action.

2. For the artist I’d ask for Rafa Sandoval. He didn’t spend that long on Action and after the Brainiac crossover I don’t know if he’ll still be drawing Superman. Would be great to retain him since he has a keen eye for action.

3. Alright this one requires a bit of an explanation. Again returning to Ultimate Spider-Man, part of why it was a success under Bendis - and why I think Hickman will be a success too - is that USM offered something to fans turned off by the mainline books. When 616 Peter was a married man with decades of continuity surrounding him, USM offered a fresh entry point about a young high school age Spidey who was relatable for a new younger generation of readers. It captured the zeitgeist of the 00s. Now Hickman is doing the opposite, offering a married Spider-Man who gets into the hero game as an adult with two kids to raise, again a pointed contrast to the current Amazing Spider-Man ongoing.

Therefore I think we need an “Ultimate Superman” to serve as a contrast to the Earth 0 guy. What are the traits that define the Earth 0 Superman?

- He’s married to Lois and has a son, plus heads up an extended family
- He’s spent decades being a hero
- He’s best friends with Batman and on good relations with most other heroes
- He works at the Daily Planet as a reporter in his secret identity
- He leans towards “Clark” being his true self
- His Earth parents are alive and well
- He’s more powerful than he’s ever been thanks to PKJ boosting his power levels
- His base is the Arctic Fortress of Solitude
- Lex knows his identity

Looking at all of that I think the direction for an Ultimate Superman should be along the lines of:

- He’s a young bachelor just beginning his journey, not married to or even dating Lois. He should be dating someone else at first (not Wonder Woman), and other than maybe Steel there are no other Supers
- He’s not on good terms with Batman and maybe even butts heads with other Ultimate heroes. Morrison had the one incident where New 52 Superman wanted to be more proactive, but folded after everyone else disagreed, I think making that a more ongoing concern could be interesting.
- “Superman” is his true self and Clark serves as the mask this go around
- Ma and Pa are dead
- His power levels are much reduced. Probably can’t take away his ability to fly but how about nerfing his invulnerability? Bullets leave bruises this time around.

4. Now what should be similar?

- Keep Clark as a reporter but that could take any number of routes. Instead of working in “old media” maybe Clark writes scripts for podcasts, or hosts them.
- He and Lois definitely should have some sparks between the two even if I think they should start out as rivals and competitors.
- The crystalline Fortress of Solitude is too baked in at this point to change, but the design for it should get revamped
- His archnemesis is Lex and Lex knows who he is. I personally love that Lex knows but covers it up because Superman secretly having been raised as a human makes him relatable, and Lex does not WANT people relating to Superman. So he makes sure it stays secret while using his knowledge to his advantage. Unlike Earth 0 I’d prefer Lex and Clark be enemies here, maybe even have Lex be more of a mad scientist without Lexcorp.

That’s the basics of what I’d like. What about the rest of you?

[DochaDocha]

I probably wouldn't want Snyder writing Ultimate Superman.

My salty answer to not particularly loving Superdad is transferring the current Superman to the Ultimate line and then started up the regular line with your ideas. I think they're pretty good, but I might even suggest more radical changes like getting rid of the Daily Planet and possibly getting rid of any full-time profession for Clark Kent. I wouldn't mind if he had a resume as diverse as Homer Simpson's just so that he could do more stuff as Clark Kent. But the big thing for me is I don't want a scenario of the more things change, the more they stay the same. If they started an Ultimate line that's purposefully meant to be different from the main continuity, I don't want them to converge four years down the line.

EDIT: I am not fond of General Thunderbolt Lane, so that's another big change I'd make. And while we're on the topic of Lanes and occupations, I had this story idea where young Supes meets Lois who's something like a physics PhD candidate. Would make it easier to get Lois more actively involved in some weird sci-fi stuff going on. She could've been the editor of her HS newspaper, though, to keep some of her journalistic roots.

[Vordan]

Snyder writing Superman has me apprehensive. On one hand he’s a big name, someone who could attract attention and help Superman achieve success. Snyder writing Supes would definitely help cement Ultimate Supes as an “important” book. But he’s also such a Batman fanboy that I genuinely question if he’s capable of writing a non-Bat book at DC for long. Would he actually stick it out or get bored and leave fairly quickly? Does he actually have any interesting ideas for what to do with the larger Superman cast beyond Clark, Lex, and Lois? Does he have a Metallo or Parasite story in him for example? Plus he’s had his chance writing Superman with Unchained. I’ll need to see what his pitch is.

Yeah I agree about not wanting things to converge, a lot of the old Elseworlds always struck me as lame for how they’d work towards making sure everyone ended up the same as the mainline (probably why Red Son was so popular since it didn’t go that route), honestly I’d probably have the biggest change be that Clark and Lois never get married here. Lois would not be endgame, I’d do something different. But she’d always be around as his friend or competitor, putting them in an entirely different field of work is an intriguing idea. Personally though I think Lois needs to stick to the media, but there’s no reason she couldn’t be a news anchor instead of a writer. Clark though… yeah as long as it involves writing I’m fine with some pretty radical changes.

[HsssH]

I liked Clark writing books in Busiek's Secret Identity.

From what I remember initial justification for journalism was that he'd know whats going on and where his help is needed. These days Superman would just watch tiktok videos or read twitter to find out whats going on. Thats not even going into journalism being rather toxic proffesion.

[Jon Clark]

I can't think of a creative team since the few names I know are old fogeys like Waid who hsvr done great work with Superman but would be just a retread of that work if handed Ultimate Superman. This would need to be more than Birthright Vol 2 or All-Star Superman: In The Beginning.

I'd want an artist that could be the next Curt Swan but not someone who is aping Swan/ Someone who will set the standard for the next quarter century on just what Superman (and Clark) look like. My one preference is to find someone who can draw Superman in a way where both Superman and Clark have different distinct looks but if you put the images of each side by side you can see how both are the same person. Someone who could do that scene from the 1978 movie where Clark considers revealing himself to Lois and R you saw Reeve transform from one role to the other. If they can make that type of scene work on the page that is who i want.

For a writer someone who read the Siegel's stories (both the Golden Age and the return in the Silver Age), Elliot S! Maggin's run in the 70's, Morrison's All Star Superman and New 52 Action run, and the triangle era then distills that into his ideas for Superman. Not retelling those tales or trying to recreate old continuity points but rather getting a feel for who those Supermen were and how they interacted with their environment.

Stuff that needs to be there:

1) Superman as a moral actor. Not a preachy Superman where the story is all about Superman always doing the "right" Thing, but a sense that this Superman rarely doubts himself and when he does it is only in private and in hindsight. We don't need pages showing Superman weighing his options, but we do need to feel that whatever Superman is doing is something he has thought out and chosen. And as a result Superman's viewpoint should be consisyent. He might make mustakes (and learn from them) but for the most part he has a strong sense of what is right and what is wrong that doesn't change from story arc to story arc. If he takes that "no kill" stance than it should take extreme citcumstances to break it and not be an action he can brush off afterward.

2)Clark as a distinct character. In my mind Clark is the son of the Kents ina different way from Superman. They both are raised by the Kents and influenced by Jonathan and Martha's morals. But Clark embodies all of the Kents concerns and worries about their son that shaped his Clark role. He isn't a coward, but he is very reticent to get physical. Clark was raised with "Don't let them see your powers" as a default, so Clark is more reticent than he is as Superman to take any risk that could reveal the powers. It definitely isn't simply "Clark is who I am. Superman is what I can do". Clark has more quirks and hang-ups when not being Superman.

Stuff different in Ultimate from the current books

1)The characters are younger and at an early stage of life. If Clark isn't shown from day one in Metropolis he is at most three years into his Metropolis life. He might being seeing Lana semi-romantically (default date to weddings, social gatherings) but they aren't serious or exclusive. He has been out socially with Lois but not on anything either considers a "date". Neither Clark or Lois have much of a reputation outside of Metropolis.

2)The Justice League (if it exists) is more of an information sharing thing than a regular team-up thing. Clark can count the number of JLA cases on one hand. The level of friendliness between the members is very wide. You might have things like the GL/Flash having a close relationship or Ollie and Dinah dating, but you'd also have Aquaman who only wants visitors if he invites them or Batman who keeps everyone at a distance. Clark is like a puppy dog Bruce can't escape (and truthfully doesn't want to). Clark treats Bruce (the only Leaguer with whom they know each other's secret IDs) as a friend despite Bruce being rude and abrassive in return. Batman will never admit it to anyone but Afred- he actually likes Clark but won't drop the Bat-act regardless.

3)The Kents- Jonathan died the summer before Clark's freshman year in College (and prior to Superman's public debut). Martha is still alive . Clark doesn't visit often because there is no way to explain how he gets from Metropolis to Smallville. Clark does call her frequently, but most of his Superman life is beyond her ability to do more than be a listening point.

Things from the current books:

1)Zod: Zod and Ursa/Faora are the only other Kryptonians Superman has encountered at this point. But like in the current continuity Zod and his wife have assumed power on another world and are trying to reshape it into a New Krypton. On this world the majority are "loyal" to Zod and Superman's efforts to remove Zod are ssen as a hostile invasion.

2) Superman is the champion of Metropolis. Regardless of anything else the people of the city are fans (with exceptions).

3)Lois is linked to Superman. There is no romance here (largely because Superman, in costume, shows no interest in costume). But Lois' name is the byline on most Superman stories, she was the one who coined the name. he has rescued her more often than any other person. she is considered the person who knows the most about him (not all of it true) ....

New slants:

1)Clark is the resident anti-Superman reporter. It;s not a bunch of "I hate Superman" articles, but he has a number of editorial columns published where he criticizes or questions his actions as Superman. For Clark it serves two purposes. It puts distance between himself and his Superman ID. It is how he deals with his own problems. If Superman is torn about some action he has taken he puts all his self-doubt in a column by Clark while Superman presents a confident front. And this is an over-all view not a simplistic bit of Clark saying "up" just because he said "down" as Superman.

2)Lex isn't an out and out supervillain. The book would start out with Lex actually being closer to his public persona. He might cut a few corners or use his wealth and position to influence things in his company's favor but he isn't engaged in sabotage of opponents or strongarming suppliers. He actually cares about the charities he supports, his emplyees and Metropolis in general. Over the course of the book we'll see both his efforts to accomplish altruistic goals and to counter sme of Superman's actions slowly lead Lex to justify moe and more things.

3)Superman's legal status. We are back in the period from the first arc of Morrison's Action comics and the early Siegel/Shuster stories. Superman will be more of a vigilante than a law enforcer. As staed above he has most of Metropolis on his side, and the police force is divided. Officially Superman is a wanted man for at least the first few years (as are a lot of the Justice League) though Suoerman's power levels make the idea of trying to just arrest him on sight too much of a risk of colateral damage. The general rule is that in populated areas the police will begrudgingly avoid a confrontation with him and only arrest his opponents if there is clear evidence of their crime and if Superman has subdued them (if they are too powerful for normal law enforcement.

The powers:

The approach is to make Superman a major power in Metropolis, someone not really able to be dealt with ny conventional military means, but with definite limits on what he can do.

His flight speed, for example, is limited while on Earth. This is the intersection of a dozen or more effects. Going full out causes actual damage due to the surrounding air he is pushing aside. He is drawing on power reserves that don't recharge as quickly with filtered sunlight. His actual reflexes aren't able to prevent collisions a bove certain speeds. And so on. The end result is he can get anywhere in Metropolis in seconds and ajacent cities like Gotham in mimutes. But if he is on the east Coast and something happens in LA it might take him hours to arrive. Outside Earth's atmosphere he might be able to move faster due to "reasons" but on Earth he isn't going anywhere near instantaneously.

His senses are still relying on real world things. He can hear a lot more than you or me but sound still travvels at around 800-1000 miles per hour. So even if he can hear a gunshot 100 miles away- he is hearing the shot roughly a minute after it occurred. Even using "telescopic vision" Superman would not see events on the surface of the sun until eight minutes later. To paraphrase Scotty on Star Trek, "Even Superman canna change the laws of physics"

I'm on the fence about the TK field and strength. I like the image of holding up a car, large boulder, collapsing building. And that is a pretty common trope with any super-strong character in comics. But I'd also be open to limiting his lifting strength by having objects collapse beyond a certain size. I'd definitely want some limits on throwing objects related to momentum, friction, maintaining integrity once he relases it from that TK field.

About the only superpower I wouldn't want to limit is invulnerability. And taht is only in regards to real world weapons. I want Superman to be very hard for the average joe to injure. And by average joe I'm including peopl armed with military equipmwnt. The idea being that even the goverments of the world can't easily stop Superman. A few people like Luthor can devise ways to do so, but between Lex not wanting to lose his edge and the materials needed being rare there is no mass-producible weapon that can kill Kryptonians- at least not quickly/

[manwhohaseverything]

1)not a savior.saving the world ain't his motivation.He is just guy around corner in that regards
2)Tights and cosplays are done to death.His look will be more casual
3)Great emphasis on action, stunts and choreography
4) Humour 4th wall breaking,slapstick and satirical
5)powers:-more leaping alien and less flying brick messiah
6)more like doc savage,zoro..etc and less like captain marvel aka shazam
7) personality-an intelligent ruffian with a chip on his shoulder and is kinda sick of somethings around
8) world- a mix of steam punk ,atomic age and cyber punk...That gradually leads to solar punk
Writer-Hiromu Arakawa

Superman-with-a-white-wolf-superman-wearing-half-sleeve-Tshirt-with-s-symbol-a-Jotaro-s-hat--boo.jpgShuster-sketch-of-New52-superman-Superman-in-half-sleeve-t-shirt-a-fedora-hat-and-grey-ripped-je.jpg

[Triniking1234]

1) Lana Lang as the primary love interest
2) He tries to be Superman on the down low until the threats start to escalate.
3) Have STAR Labs as the primary antagonists cuz they're anti-superhuman with a young Lex Luthor working with them.
4) Have Green Lantern be the first hero who make friends with Clark. Keeping track of aliens on Earth being part of his GL training but he ignores that and treats Clark as an equal.
5) Give Clark a profession similar to journalism but gives him enough time to run off an be Superman.

[Vordan]

I liked Clark writing books in Busiek's Secret Identity.

From what I remember initial justification for journalism was that he'd know whats going on and where his help is needed. These days Superman would just watch tiktok videos or read twitter to find out whats going on. Thats not even going into journalism being rather toxic proffesion.

With his powers having grown to the point he can hear people across the planet, unless you’re nerfing him Superman doesn’t really need a job to keep abreast of problems anymore. My preference is that whatever job he has, it’s one he does because he either enjoys it, or it challenges him in some way his powers can’t make easy for him.

[Jeffrey2]

1) Clark makes his first appearance as Supes in college.

2) Lana is Clark's first love - having met her in college.

3) Lana remains his love interest, along with Lois.

4)Clark first meets Lex in college. They are the same age.

5) Clark first dons the suit in college and is called Superboy during his college years.

6) Clark is the real identity. His college persona being who he is.

7) Ultimate Superman tells the story of both Superman and Superboy - the latter being flashbacks to Clark's college years.

8) Superman is forever young and the series should be about a young Clark/Superman. Not married, no kid(s) and parents alive.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Al Ewing
Stefano Casselli
Someone else as Superman and a bolder reinvention like God's and Monsters/Just Imagine.

[Kuwagaton]

I would love to have an intentional, categorically different Superman from Superdad. That's not to say write him differently, but give him a different story. No leaning on old continuity, or leaning on the same gang of creators who write the other guy all day. If you're gonna do it, make it fresh.

Tone wise I'd hope something a little more sci-fi and structure wise maybe like Superman Adventures.

For what might happen well... I've never been sold on Snyder and he struggles to get down what makes Superman interesting to me. I don't see him returning to JL or Batman since he's done so much of that stuff, so maybe they pick him. In that case I would hope he lets the artist take the reins, as DC sometimes tries.

[The Frog Bros]

I've never read "Unchained" myself but if its gonna be Snyder, I'd like to see some horror influence in both plots and villains. Ram V would also do well here, esp since he's already written Parasite in Swamp Thing. Sidebar: Supes Swamp Thing team up of some sort would be cool.

Clark is defender of Metropolis first and foremost, esp in his early years as a hero. Keep the first arcs short and sweet in order to use a few diff villains, with lower level type stuff (i.e., not universe level threats). It shouldn't be all darkness though, there needs to be some lighthearted stuff as well, which is where the supporting cast comes in. He and Jimmy fast become best friends much like in Morrison N52. He does not meet Lex until Metropolis. Much like Clark is establishing himself and learning from some early failures, so is Lex who is on the rise but not at the top just yet.

Prefer Kents to be dead (or at least one gone and one alive).

Work-wise, Clark is a writer of some kind. He not only enjoys it but has a knack for it. This he has in common with Lois, who is a slightly better writer than he is. They're both professional peers and rivals, they drive each other's work. They can be dating other people and may end up together, but they remain unmarried and def no kids.

Keep crossovers with other heroes to a minimum at the beginning. Frankly, I'd love a standalone universe in some sort of non-cannon capacity.

[Hurricane Billy]

Honestly if we do get an "Ultimate Superman" book, I'd personally want to see it act as a throwback to the Golden Age era comics and the Fleischer cartoons. Morrison obviously did something to that effect already with their New 52 Action Comics run, but IMO if we're getting a new iteration on the character running parallel to the current Superdad of the main timeline, I think going back to the Champion of the Oppressed would work particularly well in today's social climate. Moreover, if the idea here is to ape the old Ultimate Marvel books and present a somewhat more grounded interpretation of the DC world, basing Clark's powers around something closer to that original era of Superman would fit in well with such a setting.

I'm too much of a sucker to really want to see Clark in a relationship with anyone other than Lois, but if it has to happen, the obvious pick IMO is Lana. Childhood friends turned high school sweethearts, only for Clark to abruptly leave Smallville one day to travel the world and learn more about his powers and answers to his alien heritage after Ma and Pa Kent both die. Then when Clark arrives in Metropolis and starts his career as Superman, he winds up reuniting with Lana and has a slow burn with her over the course of the book.

I'd actually push for Ultra-Humanite to get center stage as Superman's arch nemesis here, with Lex playing a more morally ambiguous supporting role off on the sidelines, where you never know exactly where his allegiances lie or what course of action he'll take on a given day.

[CosmeticSkull]

1. Return him to his Golden Age Champion of the Oppressed roots.
2. Lex Luthor is a childhood friend turned enemy, or frenemy.
3. Lana Lang was his childhood sweetheart, but he steadily forms a more mature relationship with Lois.

[DrNewGod]

I liked Clark writing books in Busiek's Secret Identity.

From what I remember initial justification for journalism was that he'd know whats going on and where his help is needed. These days Superman would just watch tiktok videos or read twitter to find out whats going on. Thats not even going into journalism being rather toxic proffesion.

Another advantage to Superman being a journalist is it lets him hide in plain sight whilst poking around in things he's investigating. Nothing odd at all about a reporter asking people what happened or about the background on any number of subjects. I could see a modernizing twist being that Daily Planet is a website, Clark is a freelance as a side-hustle and has a full-time gig as a remote worker of some kind. You do, however, want him to have an excuse to associate with a community. Both because it's central to the character's mythos, and because it opens a wider range of avenues for him to find adventure.