What would you want from an Ultimate Wonder Woman

[Primal Slayer]

Stealing from Vordan over in the Superman thread

There’s been rumors that Scott Snyder is returning to DC this year to head up an “Ultimate DC” line, and in the latest issue of his newsletter he says he’s returning to superheroes with announcements coming soon. I wanted therefore to make a thread and ask you guys what would you want to see if the Ultimate DC rumors turn out to be true.

1. Who would you want the writer to be?
2. Who would you want the artist to be?
3. What should be different from the current Earth 0 incarnation of Wonder Woman?
4. What should be the same?

[Gaius]

Feel a big thing that would separate an "ultimate WW" from her regular counterpart would be being explicitly lesbian/bi rather than the footsie DC usually does.

Ask me a couple months ago I've said Kelly Thompson would have been a good pick for an ongoing WW book but after BOP, I'm not so sure on that. Can't really think of any other writers atm really, wouldn't trust them to not just do the usual Warrior Woman schlock.

Honestly, just make sure you don't do what the geniuses at Wizard Magazine thought was an acceptable idea for an Ultimate WW.

[Vordan]

We should also list all the core traits of the current WW to figure out what can change and what should stay the same:

-Diana is the daughter of Hippolyta, currently she is in a vague state of canon where her clay and Daddy Zeus origins are both canon
-She seems to have debuted in the modern day in line with Rucka’s origin, Johns initial attempt to make her a WW2 hero aside which has been quietly dropped it seems
-Her closest friends outside of the JL are Steve, Etta, and sometimes Barbara. Within the JL her close friends are Supes, Bats, and Zatanna
-Sexuality wise despite some queerbaiting from DC, Diana is portrayed as straight and only interested in men
-Post Rucka she’s a compassionate warrior who strives to avoid violence unless absolutely necessary
-She’s the head of a “Wonder Family” and might even be getting a biological/adopted daughter soon
-Currently she’s on the run from the US government
-Power level wise it’s pretty vague where she’s at, but nominally she’s supposed to be a flying brick on par with Supes and also can do some magic stuff like talk to animals

Damn this is actually quite hard to pin down because of how loose writers are with what is and isn’t canon to her. It’s not as easy for me to make a WW that is different from the E0 incarnation because that version is also all over the place.

Feel a big thing that would separate an "ultimate WW" from her regular counterpart would be being explicitly lesbian/bi rather than the footsie DC usually does.

Yeah this would be the biggest change and would also do a lot to avoid entangling her in shipping messes. Other than that… I guess you could maybe make it so that she doesn’t have all the powers E0 WW has, but in exchange she has access to Amazonian tech? Hm not sure if that’s too big a change though.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Stealing from Vordan over in the Superman thread

wasnt that rumor from six months ago? i swear i recall people theorizing this ultimate dc thing last summer.

Regardless, I don't see it happening. DC is already doing some pretty meaty shakeups at the moment from Soups getting the whole family thing to the current sillyness where we pretend the Teen Titans are a main team. Why would they reboot things with a second universe?
Just feels like what they tried with Earth One.

On top of that, Snyder just seems like a really random choice to lead any sort of reboot. I mean sure his portfolio is 90% being a writer for Batman, a dash of Superman, a run on Justice League and a handful of events. But that still doesn't make him a big famous name for them to toss a universe at. Especially since hes never had any editor credits?

Ignoring the logic or feasibility of this and just answering for the sake of having fun though......

Writer: Kurt Busiek
Artist: Doc Shaner
Difference from main universe: Diana and Nubia are twin sisters who work together, and the Amazons are more involved in the outside world.
Samesies: Keep the three tribes of Amazons.

[Hurricane Billy]

Feel a big thing that would separate an "ultimate WW" from her regular counterpart would be being explicitly lesbian/bi rather than the footsie DC usually does.

Ask me a couple months ago I've said Kelly Thompson would have been a good pick for an ongoing WW book but after BOP, I'm not so sure on that. Can't really think of any other writers atm really, wouldn't trust them to not just do the usual Warrior Woman schlock.

Honestly, just make sure you don't do what the geniuses at Wizard Magazine thought was an acceptable idea for an Ultimate WW.

This was the first thought that immediately sprang to my mind.

More specifically, if something like this were to happen, the push I'd go for is to have a slow on-and-off romance between Diana and Barbara and root a lot of the emotional core narrative around their conflicts with one another in spite of their feelings.

[Vordan]

wasnt that rumor from six months ago? i swear i recall people theorizing this ultimate dc thing last summer.

Regardless, I don't see it happening. DC is already doing some pretty meaty shakeups at the moment from Soups getting the whole family thing to the current sillyness where we pretend the Teen Titans are a main team. Why would they reboot things with a second universe?
Just feels like what they tried with Earth One.

On top of that, Snyder just seems like a really random choice to lead any sort of reboot. I mean sure his portfolio is 90% being a writer for Batman, a dash of Superman, a run on Justice League and a handful of events. But that still doesn't make him a big famous name for them to toss a universe at. Especially since hes never had any editor credits?

Ignoring the logic or feasibility of this and just answering for the sake of having fun though......

Writer: Kurt Busiek
Artist: Doc Shaner
Difference from main universe: Diana and Nubia are twin sisters who work together, and the Amazons are more involved in the outside world.
Samesies: Keep the three tribes of Amazons.

Snyder would definitely the biggest name at DC were he to return, his Batman was a sales powerhouse and his Metal events were huge sellers too. In the wake of Johns departing, Snyder would be the biggest creator at DC. Plus DC is already doing an Elseworlds line (albeit mostly Batbooks).

[Gaius]

We should also list all the core traits of the current WW to figure out what can change and what should stay the same:

-Diana is the daughter of Hippolyta, currently she is in a vague state of canon where her clay and Daddy Zeus origins are both canon
-She seems to have debuted in the modern day in line with Rucka’s origin, Johns initial attempt to make her a WW2 hero aside which has been quietly dropped it seems
-Her closest friends outside of the JL are Steve, Etta, and sometimes Barbara. Within the JL her close friends are Supes, Bats, and Zatanna
-Sexuality wise despite some queerbaiting from DC, Diana is portrayed as straight and only interested in men
-Post Rucka she’s a compassionate warrior who strives to avoid violence unless absolutely necessary
-She’s the head of a “Wonder Family” and might even be getting a biological/adopted daughter soon
-Currently she’s on the run from the US government
-Power level wise it’s pretty vague where she’s at, but nominally she’s supposed to be a flying brick on par with Supes and also can do some magic stuff like talk to animals

Damn this is actually quite hard to pin down because of how loose writers are with what is and isn’t canon to her. It’s not as easy for me to make a WW that is different from the E0 incarnation because that version is also all over the place.



Yeah this would be the biggest change and would also do a lot to avoid entangling her in shipping messes. Other than that… I guess you could maybe make it so that she doesn’t have all the powers E0 WW has, but in exchange she has access to Amazonian tech? Hm not sure if that’s too big a change though.

This was the first thought that immediately sprang to my mind.

More specifically, if something like this were to happen, the push I'd go for is to have a slow on-and-off romance between Diana and Barbara and root a lot of the emotional core narrative around their conflicts with one another in spite of their feelings.

Yeah, that's the the big thing I think DC would do nowadays since "WW's actually a lesbian" pops up a bit more Elseworlds/non-mainline books. Maybe genderswap even Steve to really warp the main version.

Y'know if this is a Scott Synder helmed project, I could see him recycling the idea of "Wonder Woman's the first public hero in WW2" since he wrote that story in that anniversary special even if he isn't the writer of a WW book.

[Hurricane Billy]

Yeah, that's the the big thing I think DC would do nowadays since "WW's actually a lesbian" pops up a bit more Elseworlds/non-mainline books. Maybe genderswap even Steve to really warp the main version.

Y'know if this is a Scott Synder helmed project, I could see him recycling the idea of "Wonder Woman's the first public hero in WW2" since he wrote that story in that anniversary special even if he isn't the writer of a WW book.

Nah, IMO the natural pick here is Barbara. Keep Steve as the first mortal man Diana meets, but there's no need to genderbend him as a means of adhering to the classic mythology while exploring Diana's queerness and sexuality. In much the same way as how DC has been teasing Diana's bisexuality on and off in recent years, there's been a fair bit of similar teasing with Diana and Barbara.

Heck, the recent DC Super Hero Girls cartoon blatantly cribbed from a classic scene in Beauty and the Beast in their depiction of Diana meeting Cheetah for the first time.

[CosmeticSkull]

I'd make Cheetah her main love interest.

[AlexLyo]

Responding to item 2. As far as writers go, it's hard not to see the word "Ultimate" and not want to choose a writer who I know and trust already gets Diana in the way I would want - like Rucka. I don't think that's a particularly interesting line of discussion to go down though - we've debated the strengths and weaknesses of past writers to death on these boards so there's not a lot new to say.

Regardless of that, I'm assuming for an "Ultimate" line as it's been used before, it would need to be someone who hasn't written Diana before, who might have something interesting to do and say with her now.

With that in mind, I'd be interested in what Ram V might do, untethered to current continuity. His Catwoman, Justice League Dark, and run on Detective have all been exceptional storytelling. The Many Deaths of Laila Starr is so brimming with creativity and empathy, merging the fantastic with the mundane. I think we'd get a Diana out of him that would be operatic in its grandeur, but also human, complex, mythical. I haven't read anything from him yet to suggest he'd do anything radical that would disrespect the spirit of the character, but I also think he'd take some risks, and come up with something new.

[Psy-lock]

I'd like more women on the main JL roster and for WW to be good friends with them.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Kelly thompson
Elena Casgrade
Someone else as Wonder Woman and a bolder reinvention like God's and Monsters/Just Imagine.
It could be an existing character like Yara or Grace.

[AlexLyo]

I agree with the comments about leaning into Diana's queerness, and I don't think that necessarily needs to be done by losing or genderbending Steve. I'd be curious to see her in non-monogamous relationships, which would allow for the depth of connection she has with Steve to coexist with connections with others, whatever their gender identity might be. We saw the potential of that in the last run, but it veered more into being able Steve and Siggy than about Diana herself having more than one partner or varying kinds of commitment.

I also find it interesting that the only kind of love we usually see Diana explore is a sort of universal, agnostic, compassionate love of humanity, but we never see her in the process of falling in love with someone romantically. Granted, we don't see much of that at all in comics in the modern era, but that doesn't make it impossible to tell well, and within the confines of action-oriented superhero comics.

Alongside that, a more queer approach to her sexuality in the sense of it being less restricted to a committed romantic relationship would also, in my eyes, evoke the liberated potential of Diana as a character. And I think good writers know how to do that without reducing it to either regreted encounters or for titillation.

Having said all of the above, I'd be frustrated if this became "the story" - it could be part of the full tapestry of the character, not the selling point for the title. Rucka did this well with Renee and Kate Kane, where queerness was woven into their stories in powerful ways that couldn't be ignored, where their relationships mattered to and motivated them, but it wasn't always the source of the drama, or a substitute for having plenty of action.

[Skytten]

I would like Kelly Sue DeConnick as the writer, but since Snyder is the one that is said to be the leader I would expect him to write it and there is no bigger writer in DC (and maybe Marvel).

[Gaius]

Been thinking on it a bit but what if an Ultimate WW that plays more into sci-fi than fantasy? Obviously Wonder Woman and the Amazons are still a fantasy world but what the majority of stuff WW faces is primarily sci-fi based (at least by superhero standards) rather than fantasy? Stuff like Ares and the Gods only being implied to exist and never outright shown (like in the first 2/3rds of the first movie), so a fantasy hero vs . sci-fi villains?

So a Cheetah who genetically engineers herself into a were-cheetah rather than being cursed? Pyscho's mind powers are the results of tech he's built and integrated into himself, Poison's experiments being sponsored by Cale's pharmaceutical company.

Main snag would mean no Circe.