Ultimate Spider-Man #1 talk.

[Mister Mets]

I haven't seen a lot of people say that yet, but I'll try to answer this.

My favorite part wasn't even the marriage. I loved it and it was necessary, but the best part was the midlife crisis and Hickman using that as a metaphor for the rich robbing the population of a good future (Millennials & Gen Z's especially).

It's brilliant to get political like that (especially since it's a sequel to Ultimate Invasion which was all about that) but it's also very fitting for Spider-Man, since he represents the everyman and the working-class. This is easily the most socially relevant thing done with Peter since the teacher days...so in about 20 years.

At first I thought I was the only one who connected with those themes, but the more I spoke with other people who read it...it seems everyone connected with the "you've been robbed" line at the end. Again, it's just the way everyone is feeling right now due to real world events. Hickman undoubtedly knows this, and I'm sure he will draw even more parallels between how Peter was "robbed" and how people in the real world were robbed as the series progresses. It genuinely seems to be the theme of this entire new universe.

Point is: To say people only like for the marriage is to say that it's not socially relevant. It's to deny that many readers feel like they're in the same shoes as Peter. Which is to be out of touch. I don't think you'll find a lot of people who will be willing to go there.



It's the most character-driven ongoing story since pre-OMD (yes, already just 1 issue in). Other than that, the answer is what I told TinkerSpider: It has something to say, and nothing else between 2008-2023 came anywhere close to having something to say the way this does. Not even stuff I liked (Spencer's ASM, RYV, etc).

That's an interesting point about how this can connect to people who feel that they should be more impressive adults.

It seems that the comic is currently a bit light on specifics: What was Peter's education? What is his current job title? What does Mary Jane do for a living? How did Peter and MJ decide to get married?

I suspect we'll get most of these answers soon, and an obvious subtext for the reader is that we know what Peter Parker should be like.

Something complicating is that Peter doesn't know what other versions are missing. That's going to be an interesting tension going forward.

A lot of people will overcompensate for the first few issues.

But the true flow of it will be seen as the story really starts to take hold across into Issues 10-20. I am sure MARVEL expects an early burst. The key is keeping it consistent and support it throughout, not just when it's trendy to do so.

Fair point.

Hickman is great at payoff, so it's possible that the second year is going to be really impressive.

It's possible that people who love the first issue will eventually decide that it wasn't that great compared to what came next, but that doesn't diminish their current enjoyment.

A sheer sense of "Something Different"

The original Ultimate line, while somewhat different, still followed the same basic guidelines.

This is completely new territory.

I mean Uncle Ben is not only alive, but a supporting character. Hell he's an ACTUAL character as opposed to a death flag. That right there is something I've never really seen in Spider-Man

Er, I'm not sure Ben should start reading long novels.

No, the parameter was best in the last 15 years. KLH is safe

No one is saying it’s the best issue ever - that’s a willful misread, especially when people have thoughtfully and explicitly made a case for their opinion.

But in the last 15 years? Sure. I’ll put it up against those books, in part BECAUSE of the promise it has, the excitement.

I have abso-f’ing-lutely no idea where Hickman is going with this. None. Because he’s not beholden to the infantilizing notion that characters are toys and must go back in the toy box. That automatically makes this more fun IMO, more anticipatory, more freeing as a reader than anything in 616 over the last fifteen years where the toy box ruled with an iron fist.

It’s so funny, Marvel keeps saying Peter can’t change or grow because it will stop new readers from picking up Spider-Man -

- when according to multiple reports from LCS owners, new faces are flooding the stores just to buy Ultimate.

Funny and sadly ironic.

I don't think it was a wilful misread when someone turned one goalpost "best Spider-Man story of the last 15 years" into another "best Spider-Man story ever."

It seems like an honest mistake, especially if someone's trying to signal that a story is really popular.

To be literal, there would be two ways for someone to think this is their favorite Spider-Man story in 15 years.

It could be that generally they're not familiar with the new material. Maybe they tried it and didn't care for it.

It could also be that they're familiar with the new material, and like some of it, but find this version much better.

[TinkerSpider]

I don't think it was a wilful misread when someone turned one goalpost "best Spider-Man story of the last 15 years" into another "best Spider-Man story ever."

It seems like an honest mistake, especially if someone's trying to signal that a story is really popular.

That’s not how it was being used. The people praising the book kept to the 15 year parameter. The people who thought that opinion was hyperbole turned it into “best ever” with the result it seemed even more hyperbolic. But perhaps willful was too strong a word, agreed.

To be literal, there would be two ways for someone to think this is their favorite Spider-Man story in 15 years.

It could be that generally they're not familiar with the new material. Maybe they tried it and didn't care for it.

It could also be that they're familiar with the new material, and like some of it, but find this version much better.

If only the people answering why they felt that way explained their opinions with thoughtful answers — oh. Wait.

Can you expand on what you mean by subtext, themes, metaphors and parallels to the 616 and the real world?

All sorts of work is made by people who craft it around a larger message. Today I was listening to an interview with the screenwriter of The Family Plan, a Mark Wahlberg action comedy, which does not have great reviews but seems to be doing well on streaming and he noted that the story was meant to have a particular metaphor (the movie's about a family man who used to be a secret agent and gets targeted by his old enemies; the metaphor is for people in our lives don't know how cool we used to be.) It's not a guarantee of artistic success, but if it lands, that can elevate something competent into something profound.

You just provided a very good explanation.

[Kevinroc]

Considering Bendis created Miles Morales, it made sense for him to tell the story.

There could easily have been a backlash if Bendis quit Ultimate Spider-Man and someone else took over with Miles Morales.

There was a backlash to Miles Morales when he was announced/when he made his debut. We still see it, even 10+ years after his debut even though the character has been pretty well accepted by a vast majority.

[Destro777]

It seems the entire premise of this new Ultimate Spider-Man is to turn everything we've ever known [about the character and its supporting cast] on its side.
Its using all the things you think you know - and twisting it - shaping and molding into something else.
There is no way of knowing where this is going - who is going to end up where. Theres a whole lot of: "Hey is that who I think it is?"

The Ben and JJJ stuff is simply brilliant - no other way to say it.
As I said in my first post in this thread - its new. Its fresh.
Its exciting - I cant say that about many modern comics anymore.

The flipside is - if you are not familiar with what came before - at least in a general sense - this is probably all lost on you.
Luckily, its written really well with a lot of heart - and drawn spectacularly - this is apparent just a few pages in.

Hickman is on another level from the rest of the [current] industry - and its not even close.

[9AlphaOmega1]

There was a backlash to Miles Morales when he was announced/when he made his debut. We still see it, even 10+ years after his debut even though the character has been pretty well accepted by a vast majority.

There will always be backlash for replacing an already established character, but in my opinion it is the ones are general audiences who get upset. The ones who have up to date on what is going on, will be more open to it.

I was looking forward to it because what if another person get Spider-Man powers with no connection to the original, what will that person do.

I was disappointed when they USM Peter back, because dead was dead in the Ultimate universe.

[Hurricane Billy]

One thing that I am very excited to see explored more in future issues is how the political landscape of Earth-6160 and the Maker's interference with the last sixty years' worth of history might be delved into more. Hardly anyone talks about this, and it's not really explained in full details in Ultimate Invasion, but consider this: 6160 Peter Parker doesn't live in the United States of America. He lives in the North American Union, which appears to be a smaller vestige of what used to be the USA's northeastern states.

And that'll all extend over to the other Ultimate books too, with the Council targeting Wakanda to try and take it over and establish full control of Africa or how Hi No Kuni is apparently not just Japan, but also Korea. But considering that the Maker managed to dismantle the United States within the timespan of the last sixty years and that this status quo appears to just... be as the norm would suggest to me that this collapse happened at least a few decades ago now.

I have no idea where Hickman's going to go in the long haul, but it really feels like in a lot of ways, Ultimate Spider-Man is going to wind up basically being, "What if Spider-Man was in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four?" And that is exhilarating and terrifying to consider, especially given the circumstances going in. This Peter has so much to lose and this world is drastically more unforgiving than the main 616 timeline. He has no real experience yet in crime fighting and while we know the spider bite is going to basically juice up his physical build with spider-y steroids, we don't know if the added age will still carry limitations that impact Peter as his journey moves forward.

And yet, despite it all being so stacked against him, I feel far better about this Peter's chances than I do the other guy over in 616 right now...

[Mister Mets]

That’s not how it was being used. The people praising the book kept to the 15 year parameter. The people who thought that opinion was hyperbole turned it into “best ever” with the result it seemed even more hyperbolic. But perhaps willful was too strong a word, agreed.



If only the people answering why they felt that way explained their opinions with thoughtful answers — oh. Wait.



You just provided a very good explanation.

Er, I wasn't asking for an explanation of subtext or themes, but examples of it.

Others noted a metaphor for people coming into adulthood and disappointed that something's missing, so I wasn't sure if you were thinking of that or something else.

There was a backlash to Miles Morales when he was announced/when he made his debut. We still see it, even 10+ years after his debut even though the character has been pretty well accepted by a vast majority.

I think the backlash would have been bigger with a different writer.

Sales would likely have been lower.

And there is the factor that Bendis came up with the character.

It seems the entire premise of this new Ultimate Spider-Man is to turn everything we've ever known [about the character and its supporting cast] on its side.
Its using all the things you think you know - and twisting it - shaping and molding into something else.
There is no way of knowing where this is going - who is going to end up where. Theres a whole lot of: "Hey is that who I think it is?"

The Ben and JJJ stuff is simply brilliant - no other way to say it.
As I said in my first post in this thread - its new. Its fresh.
Its exciting - I cant say that about many modern comics anymore.

The flipside is - if you are not familiar with what came before - at least in a general sense - this is probably all lost on you.
Luckily, its written really well with a lot of heart - and drawn spectacularly - this is apparent just a few pages in.

Hickman is on another level from the rest of the [current] industry - and its not even close.

Fair point on how it lands differently if people are familiar with the norm.

That's not a bad approach for Ultimate right now.

One thing that I am very excited to see explored more in future issues is how the political landscape of Earth-6160 and the Maker's interference with the last sixty years' worth of history might be delved into more. Hardly anyone talks about this, and it's not really explained in full details in Ultimate Invasion, but consider this: 6160 Peter Parker doesn't live in the United States of America. He lives in the North American Union, which appears to be a smaller vestige of what used to be the USA's northeastern states.

And that'll all extend over to the other Ultimate books too, with the Council targeting Wakanda to try and take it over and establish full control of Africa or how Hi No Kuni is apparently not just Japan, but also Korea. But considering that the Maker managed to dismantle the United States within the timespan of the last sixty years and that this status quo appears to just... be as the norm would suggest to me that this collapse happened at least a few decades ago now.

I have no idea where Hickman's going to go in the long haul, but it really feels like in a lot of ways, Ultimate Spider-Man is going to wind up basically being, "What if Spider-Man was in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four?" And that is exhilarating and terrifying to consider, especially given the circumstances going in. This Peter has so much to lose and this world is drastically more unforgiving than the main 616 timeline. He has no real experience yet in crime fighting and while we know the spider bite is going to basically juice up his physical build with spider-y steroids, we don't know if the added age will still carry limitations that impact Peter as his journey moves forward.

And yet, despite it all being so stacked against him, I feel far better about this Peter's chances than I do the other guy over in 616 right now...

It'll be interesting how much Hickman plays on this in the title. Is he going to keep it vague to focus on the universal themes? Or is he going to take advantage of having a Spider-Man in a different environment?

[Hurricane Billy]

It'll be interesting how much Hickman plays on this in the title. Is he going to keep it vague to focus on the universal themes? Or is he going to take advantage of having a Spider-Man in a different environment?

Going off the solicits for the upcoming issues, I'd have to wager that we'll at least start to see Hickman elaborate more on the unique politics of this new 6160 setting, given what little we know so far about the subplot with Ben and Jonah continuing to investigate the truth behind the Stark attack and the bigger corporations that apparently tie into the conspiracy. From the sound of it, it seems like the North American Union probably functions as an oligarchy comprised of those key big money corporations that itself bows to the broader control of the Maker and his Council.

But obviously, this isn't a Gotham by Gaslight type scenario, so I doubt that Ultimate Spider-Man is only going to be "What if Spider-Man was in Ninteen Eighty-Four?" and that we'll still be seeing fights with the Rogues Gallery and other superhero-ing shenanigans as Peter's journey unfolds. But I suspect the former will still be rather prominent in the mix, considering the broader scope of Hickman's narrative with this new Ultimate Universe as a whole.

[Hulkout42]

Is there anyone else who's supposed to be missing that it could end up being? Norman? Aunt May?



Awesomeness. Thanks.

Cpt. Stacy, Doc Ock, Eddie Brock, Flash Thompson?

[CaptainUniverse]

Cpt. Stacy, Doc Ock, Eddie Brock, Flash Thompson?

Cissy Ironwood, Peter Parker's often forgotten about blonde gal pal who also died in The Hulk's laser beam attack on New York!

[Hurricane Billy]

Cissy Ironwood, Peter Parker's often forgotten about blonde gal pal who also died in The Hulk's laser beam attack on New York!

Just double checked the memorial service scene and looked closer at the names on the Those Lost monument- wow, sharp eye! I'd completely missed that.

[LordUltimus]

https://twitter.com/thecomicroom/sta...25950335357301

USM is so popular that copies are already selling for 50 dollars.

If Wells run is so popular, why hasn't that happened for any of his books?

[Tuck]

Anyone paying $50 for a brand new Marvel or DC comic is a fool.

[SplinteringHeart]

I expect this will run out of steam (comic value)..I think there was a run of ridiculous pricing/value attached to Spider Boy's first appearance ( Spider-Man #7), which, I can't be sure but I think has calmed down...

Meanwhile, I'm just reading right now that a copy of Amazing Spider-man #1 has been sold (auction in Dallas) for $1.38m, that's £1.1m to me...it was one of only two NM copies...Amazing!

[Tuck]

I expect this will run out of steam (comic value)..I think there was a run of ridiculous pricing/value attached to Spider Boy's first appearance ( Spider-Man #7), which, I can't be sure but I think has calmed down...

Spider-Gwen's first appearance too, if I recall.