Ultimate Spider-Man #1 talk.

[Hurricane Billy]

I think compared to a lot of what we've seen over the last 15 years, this seems to be a great combination of top tier artwork, innovation in plot, thematic and tonal maturity, and likable characterization that feels authentic and true to form despite existing in another continuity. I agree with coop's statement that it somehow manages to feel both nostalgic and fresh.

Spencer's work leaned heavily into nostalgia and while his characterization was solid, I think he ultimately faltered in terms of plot. It seemed like he was doing too much to go back and "fix" 616 continuity instead of driving the story forward into new territory. (And I personally lost interest.) I know a lot of people love Zdarsky's Life Story, but it was a bit of a dissapointment for me and amounted to a rather meaningless nostalgic hodge podge of Spidey's greatest hits without clear themes or character arcs. And though Slott did create some innovative and intriguing plots, his sense of tone came across as rather juvenile and his character work seemed haphazard and internally inconsistent. His focus seemed to be on high concept and his approach was far too plot-driven at the expense of character (at least for my taste.) I haven't read the Miles Morales stuff so I can't comment on that.

It's like here the characters feel right AND the concept is new and intriguing enough to hook you in.

That being said, I'm reluctant to call this the BEST of the last 15 years just yet. But I think it's certainly on the right track.

Beauty in the eye of the beholder. I both think this is an exceptional comic and don't think much of the examples you listed except the current Miles book, which is fun but not something I find terribly exciting.

For me this is simply a better written and better drawn comic than the spider-man line has had in a long time. With the exception of Gleason I like the art here more than any Spider-Man book happening now by a long shot.

Writing wise as well I feel this book is simply something I find massively more enjoyable than most of what we get in Spider-Man. I think the characters and dialog feel very alive and interesting. I can't remember the last time I was interested in supporting characters in a Spider-Man comic like I am with Uncle Ben and JJJ. I think Hickman didn't extremely good job of making this universe and these characters feel lived in. Even though they do deliver exposition and establish the themes of the comic they feel like more than that. The dialog which has been criricised as too clever for me makes the characters feel much more alive and three dimensional.

Then there's Peter and MJ. I for one will always maintain that Peter as a perpetual 20 something loser who can't get it together isn't very interesting. Even though I'm sure there's drama to come I'm much more interested in this version of Peter Parker than I am the one we typically get these days. This feels fresh and nostalgic at the same time. And back to the writing and the art I feel they bring these characters alive and get the ease in nature of their relationship across to the reader very well with the dialogue and how they're drawn. We don't see much of MJ, But the in my opinion exceptional dialogue and art really make her come across strongly and I feel like I can get a sense for who her character is and what a relationship with Peter is like even with the small taste we get now. And while it's not a full picture it was enough that I'm excited to learn more and see how they function especially when we introduce Spider-Man into the mix

I think the setup for this comic is much more interesting than what's going on elsewhere. I like the theme of this multi-generational rebellion against the establishment and making a decision to change what you feel isn't right with your life. I'm excited to see how this version of Spider-Man inspires the people of this universe.

And once again because the art and the writing is in my opinion so very good the emotional moments land much harder and much stronger than elsewhere. The moments talking about grief and loss between Peter and Uncle Ben really land here. The comradrie of JJJ and Ben and their mentorship of Peter comes across well.

Especially the speech Peter gets from Tony and how it's woven together with the encouragement of MJ and Ben. That felt powerful and emotional in a way that I don't personally get from those other comics. When Peter accepted being Spider-Man I was grinning like an idiot.

And yeah. Peter and MJ are married. That's important to me. Full stop. End of story. I don't think erasing the marriage was good for character, the comic, or the industry and frankly I think it's one of the most embarrassing things in comics besides how creators are treated and paid. It's not the only thing I want (I wasn't a big fan of Renew your Vows either) but it is important to me and for me it does add another layer to this comic that with it's other strengths elevates it far beyond the first issues of other runs listed here.

We won't know how it is til years from now, and better writers than Hickman have fumbled things. But with one issue compared to issues that set up or begin books like Superior Spider-Man or the current run which introduced us to Paul Mary Jane and their kids like this one introduced us to Peter, Mary Jane their kids and Uncle Ben and JJJ and even Harry Osborn?

It's no contest for this reader. And if this was simply a trap post to explain "why it's not that good actually" or how the other comics are just as good. Look, like I said. Beauty in the eye of the beholder. I'm not here to debate it

Completely agreed across the board. I'm all too aware that this first issue starts things off with some very notable and immediately apparent differences from the traditional status quo over in 616 and that the history is completely different. But there's something in the character writing and general vibe of the comic that just feels like coming home to me. And it isn't just that Peter's married with MJ again or that they have kids; that was the case with the Renew Your Vows books too and while I quite enjoyed them, this hits differently for me.

[Majesty]

There's a lot of angst about the current run of ASM....Ultimate isn't the best thing "since sliced bread", but, it is very good, as a new/different take on Spider-Man....just one issue in....

Essentially my thoughts. Definitely want to see where it goes!!!

[a moment closer]

I've gotta ask the two of you, and anyone else who feels this way, what makes this such a good Spider-Man comic?

I liked it.

I'm looking forward to reading the next issue.

But what makes it better than any Miles Morales comic, Superior Spider-Man, any Zdarsky Spider-Man comic, any Nick Spencer Spider-Man comic, etc.?

Is it more about not liking most Spider-Man comics published since Back in Black/ "To Have and to Hold" or is there something that elevates this issue to the extent that it could be included in "Best of" lists?

I enjoy most books that Marvel puts out and Spider-Man is currently blessed with a range of stories with different tones, for the most part, and there are a lot of spider characters with a book right now. And, we are getting character development in all of them. It's GLORIOUS!

ASM is the one book that I decided to put down just after Slott's run ended. Not that I didn't like what Spencer was planning on doing but because it wasn't adding anything new that I cared for. Back to Basics!

But for me, "Back to Basics" would look a lot more like what we were reading when Straczynski was writing ASM in the early 2000s. Which began to look like Spencer was on his way to re-establishing, right? So I did end up buying Spencer's run in trade and enjoyed most of it. When Wells' run was about to begin I almost jumped on again buying ASM floppies. I liked the idea of the story Wells was spinning and I thought it was still going to lead to bringing Peter and MJ together in marriage. Marvel stomped on my heart again when I realized they were going to break them apart for the umpteenth time! That and finding out Romita Jr was drawing it, I was out. Hating on his talent, yes, I just don't like it. He's had runs where his style looks good but it never looks better than ok to me. I will admit that he can draw amazing scenes, and convey the correct emotions, his panels breathe with an extra dimension that only a handful of seasoned dynamic artists can achieve. It's also very interesting how he's able to make the busy large movie-type scenes seem to have so much space to just live in and explore, at times. It usually comes down to not liking his scratchy, dirty, often misshapen character work. Don't get me wrong, any misshapen character features are just minimal perceptions I'm making while reading and it always takes me out of the story to ponder his style. It changes quite a bit from project to project in the subtlest of ways but it always looks dirty and wrong to me somehow.

Wow! Tangents! Or is it my passion for the medium?! Anyway.

This new Ultimate take is just more of a preference for me than representing the best Spider-Man comic. I can't even say this is the best of Checchetto's work right now but the art is good. The maturity of Peter is nice to see, I relate to this version more being 43 myself. MJ is great! Spot on! The kids are new and that's exciting to experience as we dig into their family dynamics. "Uncle" Jonah is a breath of fresh air, and I'm loving this Ben. Killing May was more of a surprise than I was expecting and it further sets this world up to be unique in all aspects. Character work is what brings me to the table most often in comics, aside from the art. A slice-of-life comic would be my jam! And this accomplished that feeling. Drama, Soap, whatever you call it, is essential for my top comic picks. X-Men all day! I need depth and dimension in my characters. Intrigue and mystery are always welcome so yes, this book is buzzing and will be talked about for a long time if it continues to be at this level. Best of List nominee? Absolutely!

[ZeroBG82]

Yeah. He got his powers in the same incident that blinded him, so even if he never became Daredevil he should still have his powers. Maker might have influenced him into being a priest instead of a lawyer though, perhaps him choosing a career in the church instead of law meant he became a pacifist.

Alternatively, Maker could have just blinded the young Matt directly at some point before the accident. Which would pretty thoroughly prevent the accident that gave him his powers in the first place.

[a moment closer]

I think compared to a lot of what we've seen over the last 15 years, this seems to be a great combination of top tier artwork, innovation in plot, thematic and tonal maturity, and likable characterization that feels authentic and true to form despite existing in another continuity. I agree with coop's statement that it somehow manages to feel both nostalgic and fresh.

Spencer's work leaned heavily into nostalgia and while his characterization was solid, I think he ultimately faltered in terms of plot. It seemed like he was doing too much to go back and "fix" 616 continuity instead of driving the story forward into new territory. (And I personally lost interest.) I know a lot of people love Zdarsky's Life Story, but it was a bit of a dissapointment for me and amounted to a rather meaningless nostalgic hodge podge of Spidey's greatest hits without clear themes or character arcs. And though Slott did create some innovative and intriguing plots, his sense of tone came across as rather juvenile and his character work seemed haphazard and internally inconsistent. His focus seemed to be on high concept and his approach was far too plot-driven at the expense of character (at least for my taste.) I haven't read the Miles Morales stuff so I can't comment on that.

It's like here the characters feel right AND the concept is new and intriguing enough to hook you in.

That being said, I'm reluctant to call this the BEST of the last 15 years just yet. But I think it's certainly on the right track.

Yes! So articulate. I wanted to say a lot of this. I agree with you and Coop on the nostalgic yet fresh take.

[a moment closer]

Just brutal enough to be a real possibility. If the Maker did blind Matt somehow to avoid Daredevil from existing I hope we get to see it on the page rather than just being told what happened. Someone on here suggested that Tony could have sent Matt a container filled with enough of the chemical to douse himself with and that's why he's blind and probably has his powers intact. That would be a great scene to see as well.

I hope we get an Ultimate Daredevil mini if not an ongoing at some point.

[Frontier]

For me it was a solidly produced comic with some interesting hooks but I'm not calling it "the best Spider-man comic of all time" even if Peter and MJ were much better written than they have been in a long time.

[Hurricane Billy]

For me it was a solidly produced comic with some interesting hooks but I'm not calling it "the best Spider-man comic of all time" even if Peter and MJ were much better written than they have been in a long time.

I mean, we're only one issue in so far. It'd be ridiculous to claim that Hickman's already dethroned Kraven's Last Hunt this early on!

[TinkerSpider]

I've gotta ask the two of you, and anyone else who feels this way, what makes this such a good Spider-Man comic?

I liked it.

I'm looking forward to reading the next issue.

But what makes it better than any Miles Morales comic, Superior Spider-Man, any Zdarsky Spider-Man comic, any Nick Spencer Spider-Man comic, etc.?

Is it more about not liking most Spider-Man comics published since Back in Black/ "To Have and to Hold" or is there something that elevates this issue to the extent that it could be included in "Best of" lists?

Ah yes, the "You only like it because of the marriage" that's being thrown around LOL. Even though Marvel's promotion centered on "Meet the Parkers."

That's not it. Honest!

Reason 1: Ultimate Spider-Man is not chained to 616 history. It's informed by the story we all know, but from the first page it announces this is not the same old same old. This isn't the old Ultimate (which I liked) which was basically 616 but with a "modern" (now dated!) twist. This isn't RYV (and I loved the series) which was basically what if 616 branched off in a different direction. This isn't Life Story (which I don't love but I appreciate as a well-crafted story) which is basically 616 in real time. It's not Spider-Verse and its ad naseam twists on "what if X were bitten." 616 is amazing and spectacular, don't get me wrong. But it's like a Greek myth by now. And it's stopped being about Peter Parker the character with OMD, and now it's more about remixing the myth over and over. Since OMD, how many clone stories? How many Kravens and plays on the word "Last Hunt?" Goblin legacies? Superior was basically KLH taken to extremes and with the entire supporting cast forced to carry the idiot ball and minus the heart and soul at the center of KLH. There hasn't been anything truly original interjected into Peter's character in 616 since...JMS and the idea of totems, IMO. And that's because, again, Peter Parker has been placed in statis since OMD and he's not allowed to change, he's not allowed to grow, he's not allowed to acknowledge his last adventure may have left some scars, he's basically a two-dimensional cartoon character who factory resets at the end of every arc instead of being a living, breathing human character. He certainly can't be self-aware. He just runs around in circles. And that hindered Zdarsky (loved Spider's Shadow, but that was a What If), it hindered Tom Taylor (I really liked Friendly Neighborhood), it definitely hindered Spencer (who I also liked a lot).

Reason 2: Ultimate Spider-Man starts right away with a self-aware Peter, who acts like a believable human being with human emotions and goals and motivations, not a static cartoon character. Ultimate Spider-Man immediately builds a believable world and populates it with other believable human characters who have their own emotions and goals, they're not just objects rotating around Peter that don't have lives of their own. This world has stakes. Visceral, understandable stakes. We know what Peter is risking. We know what Ben and Jonah are risking. We know what Tony is risking. We're immediately engaged in what they want and why in a way that has been vastly missing from 616 for a long time.

And this ISN'T 616. I think people expecting this book to be the usual 616 remix is going to be disappointed. I'm not expecting Gwen or Venom or Black Cat to show up just because this is Spider-Man book so there must be a Gwen version and a Venom version and a Black Cat version. I'm expecting Hickman to tell his own original story, and if they show up it's because they are germane to that. And if they are expecting good 'ol Peter Parker, blockhead, who can never kick the football because of flanderized Parker luck, who must always walk under a cloud of tragedy - I have a feeling they are going to be greatly disappointed as well. This is a different Peter, who has already been tested by tragedy (losing his parents as a teen, losing May) and who has a whole world that has been stolen from him (and his kids' futures) to fight for. We'll see if that's where Hickman is going!

Reason 3: Ultimate Spider-Man is well-written. The craft is evident. The pacing is great. The dialogue sounds natural. The kids sound like kids (Richard reminds me of one of my favorite 11 year olds, who also loves to read and is okay with being who he is). The art is terrific - Checchetto is terrific at character expressions and "acting." And it's literary. This isn't to say that there haven't been well-written Spider books in 616 in the last 15 years. But Ultimate asks of its readers. Or maybe, a better way is to say it offers. It offers subtext, themes, metaphors. There are parallels to be drawn to 616, and parallels to be drawn to the real world. It's thought-provoking, if you want it to be. You can also read it straightforward and get a decent comic book yarn if you like, although if you are looking for superhero shenanigans this first issue would be disappointing. But if you want to read deeper - this book is very rewarding. I didn't expect to still be thinking about scenes in the comic days after I read it, yet I am. It's so much fun to watch smart but thoroughly human characters do smart but thoroughly human things in a well-plotted story, and I have faith in Jonathan Hickman that this will continue.

I'm not as familar with Miles's books, but I will say Cody Ziglar is killing it lately.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Ah yes, the "You only like it because of the marriage" that's being thrown around LOL. Even though Marvel's promotion centered on "Meet the Parkers."

That's not it. Honest!

I haven't seen a lot of people say that yet, but I'll try to answer this.

My favorite part wasn't even the marriage. I loved it and it was necessary, but the best part was the midlife crisis and Hickman using that as a metaphor for the rich robbing the population of a good future (Millennials & Gen Z's especially).

It's brilliant to get political like that (especially since it's a sequel to Ultimate Invasion which was all about that) but it's also very fitting for Spider-Man, since he represents the everyman and the working-class. This is easily the most socially relevant thing done with Peter since the teacher days...so in about 20 years.

At first I thought I was the only one who connected with those themes, but the more I spoke with other people who read it...it seems everyone connected with the "you've been robbed" line at the end. Again, it's just the way everyone is feeling right now due to real world events. Hickman undoubtedly knows this, and I'm sure he will draw even more parallels between how Peter was "robbed" and how people in the real world were robbed as the series progresses. It genuinely seems to be the theme of this entire new universe.

Point is: To say people only like for the marriage is to say that it's not socially relevant. It's to deny that many readers feel like they're in the same shoes as Peter. Which is to be out of touch. I don't think you'll find a lot of people who will be willing to go there.

I've gotta ask the two of you, and anyone else who feels this way, what makes this such a good Spider-Man comic?

I liked it.

I'm looking forward to reading the next issue.

But what makes it better than any Miles Morales comic, Superior Spider-Man, any Zdarsky Spider-Man comic, any Nick Spencer Spider-Man comic, etc.?

Is it more about not liking most Spider-Man comics published since Back in Black/ "To Have and to Hold" or is there something that elevates this issue to the extent that it could be included in "Best of" lists?

It's the most character-driven ongoing story since pre-OMD (yes, already just 1 issue in). Other than that, the answer is what I told TinkerSpider: It has something to say, and nothing else between 2008-2023 came anywhere close to having something to say the way this does. Not even stuff I liked (Spencer's ASM, RYV, etc).

[Majesty]

I mean, we're only one issue in so far. It'd be ridiculous to claim that Hickman's already dethroned Kraven's Last Hunt this early on!

A lot of people will overcompensate for the first few issues.

But the true flow of it will be seen as the story really starts to take hold across into Issues 10-20. I am sure MARVEL expects an early burst. The key is keeping it consistent and support it throughout, not just when it's trendy to do so.

[Joe Sidetracked]

For me it was a solidly produced comic with some interesting hooks but I'm not calling it "the best Spider-man comic of all time" even if Peter and MJ were much better written than they have been in a long time.

Completely agreed. If we changed the character names and appearances but kept everything else the same, I doubt many would even guess it was a Spider-Man book.

It's a promising start and the setup is a breath of fresh air. But if someone asked me to recommend a great single issue of Spidey to read, this isn't making the list.

[Aura Blaize]

I've gotta ask the two of you, and anyone else who feels this way, what makes this such a good Spider-Man comic?

I liked it.

I'm looking forward to reading the next issue.

But what makes it better than any Miles Morales comic, Superior Spider-Man, any Zdarsky Spider-Man comic, any Nick Spencer Spider-Man comic, etc.?

Is it more about not liking most Spider-Man comics published since Back in Black/ "To Have and to Hold" or is there something that elevates this issue to the extent that it could be included in "Best of" lists?

A sheer sense of "Something Different"

The original Ultimate line, while somewhat different, still followed the same basic guidelines.

This is completely new territory.

I mean Uncle Ben is not only alive, but a supporting character. Hell he's an ACTUAL character as opposed to a death flag. That right there is something I've never really seen in Spider-Man

[Majesty]

You know when Jonah started yelling for

spoilers:

BEN!

end of spoilers

I swore for a split second he meant spoilers:

Reilly

end of spoilers

[Kevinroc]

You know when Jonah started yelling for

spoilers:

BEN!

end of spoilers

I swore for a split second he meant spoilers:

Reilly

end of spoilers

He screamed out "Parker!"