Preview: Jackpot #1

[MisterTorgo]

She was there when it was created and part of the experimenting on it that made it work. That technology was one she used to survive in the world she was in. She knows how's how it works. And since it's updates she seems able to control to an extent what powers she gets, as she intentionally used Vines to go with Peter's webs.

How do we know she knows how it works? She needed Paul to boot it back up when it got knocked out and she did need him to turn off the limiter. A choice was made by the creative team to have him in control over the tech he gave her. Maybe that was just to give him something to do, maybe it was to reinforce their "partnership" or whatever, but it's there on the page. It doesn't matter if he listened to her order or not, she still needed for him to. She clearly didn't have the ability to do it herself. That's problematic.

But because Bruce could have shut down Terry at any second and even proved he could in the first episode, I guess Terry never had agency :3

Yeah, actually. Bruce definitely held the power in that relationship at that time. He literally robbed Terry of his power at the press of a button because he could. He made the suit and it relied on Bruce to keep it up, like Paul making and tweaking Jackpot's gauntlet. It's not that he never had agency, it's that it was taken from him in that moment.

[Triniking1234]

Her, Tony's mom, and Friday .

Wasn't Ai Tony there too?

[Triniking1234]

How do we know she knows how it works? She needed Paul to boot it back up when it got knocked out and she did need him to turn off the limiter. A choice was made by the creative team to have him in control over the tech he gave her. Maybe that was just to give him something to do, maybe it was to reinforce their "partnership" or whatever, but it's there on the page. It doesn't matter if he listened to her order or not, she still needed for him to. She clearly didn't have the ability to do it herself. That's problematic.






Yeah, actually. Bruce definitely held the power in that relationship at that time. He literally robbed Terry of his power at the press of a button because he could. He made the suit and it relied on Bruce to keep it up, like Paul making and tweaking Jackpot's gauntlet. It's not that he never had agency, it's that it was taken from him in that moment.

Again if MJ didn't want to rely on Paul, she could've found a way of being a hero which didn't rely on other people's technology.

[TinkerSpider]

Because the device MJ is using works like a real casino machine where someone can manipulate the odds for another device. MJ agreed to it and Paul only intervened when Electro drained power from it. Maybe she should've found a way to be a superhero which didn't rely on other people.

I agree, the device is ridiculous and problematic concept that no sane human being would choose to use but it was thrust on Mary Jane without once trying to make the reader understand why she make that illogical choice. And the writers did a poor job with world building, choosing once again to take away some agency from MJ and make her reliant on a man. It’s an asinine set up.

Because MJ is a character. She didn’t choose anything. The writers chose. And they failed to bridge the readers’ disbelief.

Also when Iron Heart came out, MJ was her partner in the chair.

Did Riri control Riri’s armor, or did MJ?

There’s nothing wrong with having a person in the chair. But the person needs to do something more than watch like a voyeur, provide information the superhero can clearly see for herself and/or could learn from a police scanner, and control the superhero’s power to the point the superhero has to ask when they want changes.

[Frontier]

I think the most damning thing about this issue is that RYV #2 did what it did here way better in terms of introducing and focusing on MJ as a full-blown Superhero.

I know it's unfair to compare Celeste to Gerry Conway, who is responsible for what a lot of people love about MJ, but still.

[MisterTorgo]

Again if MJ didn't want to rely on Paul, she could've found a way of being a hero which didn't rely on other people's technology.

I'm not super jazzed about MJ being a superhero myself but if they were going to do it, I wish they had given her better (and better thought out) powers and independence.

[MisterTorgo]

I think the most damning thing about this issue is that RYV #2 did what it did here way better in terms of introducing and focusing on MJ as a full-blown Superhero.

I know it's unfair to compare Celeste to Gerry Conway, who is responsible for what a lot of people love about MJ, but still.

It's probably not unfair, though. She is a professional writer, after all.

I can't say that I'm driven to seek out her other work, though, after reading this. The basic plot and status quo of the book aren't hers but that dialogue was...not good.

[Garlador]

I think the most damning thing about this issue is that RYV #2 did what it did here way better in terms of introducing and focusing on MJ as a full-blown Superhero.

I know it's unfair to compare Celeste to Gerry Conway, who is responsible for what a lot of people love about MJ, but still.

See, I was going to mention Kate Leth & Marguerite Sauvage's story about Mary Jane actually going through the steps of designing her suit, brainstorming a name, enjoying the creative process, bouncing ideas off her loved ones, and fully making it her own so we see how it very much isn't just an extension of Spider-Man's powers but a true reflection of her own talents and style.

[Astroman]

It's probably not unfair, though. She is a professional writer, after all.

I can't say that I'm driven to seek out her other work, though, after reading this. The basic plot and status quo of the book aren't hers but that dialogue was...not good.

Exactly. For writers to become respected and admired they need to do good work that others respect and admire. Before Gerry Conway became a well-respected comic writer, he was just a guy doing his best. If Celeste starts doing more solid and praise-worthy work, she'll follow a similar path.

[Daibhidh]

Also when Iron Heart came out, MJ was her partner in the chair.

Was she? I don't remember that. Looking at plot summaries of Riri's early adventures, it's not mentioned. MJ only makes appearances every other issue or so, some of them are cameos, and none of them mention MJ being in the chair.

[Garlador]

Exactly. For writers to become respected and admired they need to do good work that others respect and admire. Before Gerry Conway became a well-respected comic writer, he was just a guy doing his best. If Celeste starts doing more solid and praise-worthy work, she'll follow a similar path.

I'm going to be fair here and assume she had certain constraints. Like the above Renew Your Vows story has the benefit of a more fan-pleasing and positively received starting point, and it was a back-up created exclusively to celebrate Mary Jane's desire and love for crafting her Spinneret identity. It wasn't saddled with being part of a mandatory Gang War tie-in that's also just a stepping stone towards more of a divisive Spider-Man run while carrying over the baggage readers dislike - all of which may have been non-negotiable.

Sure, there's still some structural issues, questionable dialogue, and bizarre decisions that even this status quo likely didn't force, but I think this is another case where fans would have preferred a story that better explored her psychology leading into her hero career and the ramifications this would have on people like Peter, her career, her friends, her family... and not just, well, Paul.

We are two years into this run and I still have no earthly idea who Mary Jane is anymore, and this was a missed opportunity to really clear that up.

[Daibhidh]

One thing I'll disagree with is the issue with her "painted on costume" because that's literally every single Superhero with a skintight spandex costume so I don't feel like it's a fair criticism any more than it is for other comics and I don't feel like MJ was that overtly sexualized. I mean, She-Hulk is running around in a leotard.

Also, I am not sure that citing the story in which MJ becomes Iron Spider as evidence for MJ's characterisation is altogether reasonable. That's another story most MJ fans would I think otherwise consider out of character: MJ and Peter are apparently not talking to each other for unspecified reasons; MJ is implied to be having an affair with Tony (which was at odds with their relationship in Tony's own comic).
My reading of MJ is that she would become a superhero if she had the power to do so, if only because she'd keep jumping in when there's trouble and she had the power to help, and would after a while realise that she might as well accept that's what she was doing. She would not need to be motivated by trauma or told to do so by Felicia or Paul or anybody else.

[Frontier]

I'm not super jazzed about MJ being a superhero myself but if they were going to do it, I wish they had given her better (and better thought out) powers and independence.

Agreed.

It's probably not unfair, though. She is a professional writer, after all.

I can't say that I'm driven to seek out her other work, though, after reading this. The basic plot and status quo of the book aren't hers but that dialogue was...not good.

This definitely doesn't bode well for the mini with Black Cat if the writing is on the same level.

See, I was going to mention Kate Leth & Marguerite Sauvage's story about Mary Jane actually going through the steps of designing her suit, brainstorming a name, enjoying the creative process, bouncing ideas off her loved ones, and fully making it her own so we see how it very much isn't just an extension of Spider-Man's powers but a true reflection of her own talents and style.

I was just thinking of that succinct intro pages in the second issue (I think?).

I'm going to be fair here and assume she had certain constraints. Like the above Renew Your Vows story has the benefit of a more fan-pleasing and positively received starting point, and it was a back-up created exclusively to celebrate Mary Jane's desire and love for crafting her Spinneret identity. It wasn't saddled with being part of a mandatory Gang War tie-in that's also just a stepping stone towards more of a divisive Spider-Man run while carrying over the baggage readers dislike - all of which may have been non-negotiable.

Sure, there's still some structural issues, questionable dialogue, and bizarre decisions that even this status quo likely didn't force, but I think this is another case where fans would have preferred a story that better explored her psychology leading into her hero career and the ramifications this would have on people like Peter, her career, her friends, her family... and not just, well, Paul.

We are two years into this run and I still have no earthly idea who Mary Jane is anymore, and this was a missed opportunity to really clear that up.

Considering she was initially advertised for a mini like a lot of other Gang War books while instead she gets a one-shot...it's possible there was a lot of story re-structuring.

Also, I am not sure that citing the story in which MJ becomes Iron Spider as evidence for MJ's characterisation is altogether reasonable. That's another story most MJ fans would I think otherwise consider out of character: MJ and Peter are apparently not talking to each other for unspecified reasons; MJ is implied to be having an affair with Tony (which was at odds with their relationship in Tony's own comic).
My reading of MJ is that she would become a superhero if she had the power to do so, if only because she'd keep jumping in when there's trouble and she had the power to help, and would after a while realise that she might as well accept that's what she was doing. She would not need to be motivated by trauma or told to do so by Felicia or Paul or anybody else.

I think the only moment they're really citing was when she uses the suit, immediately takes the mask off, and says this was a once-a-time thing, which was in-character for MJ.

[Daibhidh]

I think the only moment they're really citing was when she uses the suit, immediately takes the mask off, and says this was a once-a-time thing, which was in-character for MJ.

I know that's the moment they're citing, but that moment fits in with the whole story that has her complaining about superheroes and secret identities and so on, which is definitely not in line with attitudes she had previously expressed and acted on.

[Frontier]

I know that's the moment they're citing, but that moment fits in with the whole story that has her complaining about superheroes and secret identities and so on, which is definitely not in line with attitudes she had previously expressed and acted on.

Fair, but I think it's pretty consistent in as far as she's previously never been personally interested in being a Superhero herself, which I think the reviewer was getting at.

When was the last time they even addressed what MJ's job is other than that Krakoan Brand Ambassador thing?