Preview: Jackpot #1

[Tuck]

Peter and MJ were still married in 616 when Ultimate started and the comic strip was still in circulation. Why would Marvel go out of their way to say "Hey, Spider-Man loves other women who aren't MJ?"

Because it was a different version, starting again in high school.

Even if it wanted to follow the same general path as 616, Betty and Liz would have been the potential LIs.

[SplinteringHeart]

Then why do you continually refer to MJ's ability to act freely, as if the comic is a documentary about a real life person?



I have an opinion, it is very much based on the text in front of me. I am sorry you don't agree with me, but if everyone was forced to agree this world would be a very boring and dull place, like a totaliarian regime.

Ha ha...you've typed endlessly about how she's acted, what she's done, and what she should do and you question my comments/perspective as if I don't know she's not real! What, because I disagree with your perspective..

Have your opinion, of course, say it's based on the text in front of you...and if it's not, I might disagree with you, that's fine, because I can still disagree with you and comment accordingly...we're not in that dull world just yet..

[Triniking1234]

Because it was a different version, starting again in high school.

Even if it wanted to follow the same general path as 616, Betty and Liz would have been the potential LIs.

I mean the strip and comic character were different Peters.

The character and pairing was just too popular at the time. Didn't have competition until Spectacular Gwen.

[MisterTorgo]

Ok, the first part sounds like your fault since there's art depicting the roulette spinning before the powers activate so it's easy to assume that's how it works.

That's completely beside my point that she somehow knows what power she got without even looking or trying it out first. We all know that the device spins like a roulette wheel. But she never once looks down to see what spin she got or tries it out to see ehat the power is before immediately using it and she never has to has to spin again to try for something different. It's ridiculous because, in the words of Todd Howard, "It just works." How? Why?

Also I said that never happened. The scene where you say she was asking for a new power was her and Paul what happen if they increased power to the gauntlet and Electro tried to drain it again.

Once again, I never said she asked for a new power, but that she asked for access to her full power by removing the limiter. The problem is that she has to go through him for it.

[TinkerSpider]

Ha ha...you've typed endlessly about how she's acted, what she's done, and what she should do

This might be the disconnect.

I'm critiquing the creative choices made for the character. I'm critiquing the writing. I'm not critiquing MJ. She has no control over what she does. Only the writers do. Makes sense?

and you question my comments/perspective as if I don't know she's not real! What, because I disagree with your perspective..

I was wondering about your use of "Poor MJ, she can do nothing right." Because MJ only acts as the writers make her act. MJ could of course "do things right" - it all depends on the writing!

Have your opinion, of course, say it's based on the text in front of you...and if it's not, I might disagree with you, that's fine, because I can still disagree with you and comment accordingly...we're not in that dull world just yet..

Sure! So what did you like about the writing? Because it seems that's where we disagree.

[Tuck]

I mean the strip and comic character were different Peters.

The character and pairing was just too popular at the time. Didn't have competition until Spectacular Gwen.

At the time?

It was popular when Peter was with Gwen, and when they got rid of it the first time, and the second time.

It's the most popular now. Doesn't stop them playing keep-away.

[Kevinroc]

There's no way they could adapt Jackpot's style to gameplay, her powers are too ill-defined/random.

They would have to be scripted events if they were to try.

That's the only way Jackpot could work in video games.

(I'm not expecting Jackpot to appear in video games.)

[Triniking1234]

At the time?

It was popular when Peter was with Gwen, and when they got rid of it the first time, and the second time.

It's the most popular now. Doesn't stop them playing keep-away.

This just means Bendis wouldn't waste his time hooking up Ultimate Peter with anyone else.

And to be fair, they're only playing keep away in the main book. We've had RYV, recent Ultimate, JJ Abrams and that last Disney cartoon with MJ OTPs.

[fjmac]

I'm not suggesting that criticism isn't valid, I'm arguing against the nature of it in this case...what I'm seeing as negativity and criticism coming from an entrenched position about what should be for a character and laced with such prejudice because the direction for the character isn't what they want that there seems to be no redeeming features to what happens on the page, is what I rail against...

This thread has been dominated by people with this negative position, and that's fine, in one way..freedom of speech, but I'm exasperated that when anyone comes on here without going along with that negativity a certain band will shoot them down...

Don't get me wrong, I think I get where you're coming from, but there's a combination of factors here.

For better or worse, all discussions about books and stories involving MJ will be tainted by the character demolition that Wells started and a few other writers found themselves having to deal with as a result. It was not well received from the beginning, and Marvel did nothing but double down on it and use the stories to take pot-shots at the readers who criticized them. This is all happening inside a poisoned well where we the readers have to watch Lowe and Wells being cocky about it over the well's edge because they hold all the cards. And it's been going like this for almost two years.

That is the context in which this one shot came out. A comic that (AFAIC) is absolutely nothing to write home about, although not intrinsically deplorable either. BUT. It presents an MJ that is an absolute departure from her last appearances, story-wise, tonally and thematically. And one may say, well, MJ undergoing a full departure from the repugnant status quo in which she was, that can only be a good thing, right? Well, the problem is that what this story is doing is naturalizing that repugnant status quo, trying to establish Paul (an astonishingly solid contender for the title of most universally loathed character in the history of comics for both in-universe and editorial reasons) as a mainstay character in MJ's life, and attempting to convince us that MJ is a character only slightly adjacent to the main Spider-Man cast.

So: a book that's not necessarily bad, but has nothing special going for it: so-so story, so-so art. But that does salt the wound of MJ fans in such a way that feels almost by design. Yeah, it's not going to find a lot of good will here. The book is bland and comes with serious baggage. And people are tired.

And as for shooting down positive opinions... there's around five or six members who are active on this forum and vocally defend the current status quo, as is their right and prerogative. And honestly? The are the largest purveyors of negativity around here. They are passive aggressive, belittling, and provokers. They get into discussions and, when confronted with reasoned arguments hard to dispute, simply walk away and go start a passive aggressive fight somewhere else. I won't name names, but there's actually no need.

[Triniking1234]

That's completely beside my point that she somehow knows what power she got without even looking or trying it out first. We all know that the device spins like a roulette wheel. But she never once looks down to see what spin she got or tries it out to see ehat the power is before immediately using it and she never has to has to spin again to try for something different. It's ridiculous because, in the words of Todd Howard, "It just works." How? Why?



Once again, I never said she asked for a new power, but that she asked for access to her full power by removing the limiter. The problem is that she has to go through him for it.

Why the heck does she need to always look at the roulette? It's attached to the suit and the suit has a visor bigger than Cyclops'. Maybe she can feel the power or it shows on the visor. No wonder comics are so decompressed.

She agreed to that setup when she became Jackpot so it's not a problem.

[SplinteringHeart]

This might be the disconnect.

I'm critiquing the creative choices made for the character. I'm critiquing the writing. I'm not critiquing MJ. She has no control over what she does. Only the writers do. Makes sense?



I was wondering about your use of "Poor MJ, she can do nothing right." Because MJ only acts as the writers make her act. MJ could of course "do things right" - it all depends on the writing!



Sure! So what did you like about the writing? Because it seems that's where we disagree.

The disconnect is we both saw different things on the page of Jackpot #1...I believe your perspective on that is driven by your overall critique, stroke prejudice, of the current writing and direction the character is going in..

Seems you saw a damsel with no agency at the mercy of an evil Paul, instead of someone who chose to put the suit on with a partner watching her back while she engages as a super-hero...and this as written by Celeste..

You're entitled to see things your way and comment, I'm entitled to counter and comment...

We're not likely to agree, both entrenched in our different way..

Laters...

[Astroman]

The disconnect is we both saw different things on the page of Jackpot #1...I believe your perspective on that is driven by your overall critique, stroke prejudice, of the current writing and direction the character is going in..

Seems you saw a damsel with no agency at the mercy of an evil Paul, instead of someone who chose to put the suit on with a partner watching her back while she engages as a super-hero...and this as written by Celeste..

You're entitled to see things your way and comment, I'm entitled to counter and comment...

We're not likely to agree, both entrenched in our different way..

Laters...

That approach to debate is what people have a problem with. They post specifics in the writing/execution that they criticize. It seems your only response is to attack the person, not the argument, which is classic ad hominem attacks and is generally, in formal debate and internet forum etiquette, considered poor form.
https://www.txst.edu/philosophy/reso...d-hominem.html

Stop telling people they are prejudiced, "downers," etc. and respond with examples of why you think the execution is good (in the same way the detractors give examples of why they think it is bad) and you might have a different reception to your arugments.

[SplinteringHeart]

Don't get me wrong, I think I get where you're coming from, but there's a combination of factors here.

For better or worse, all discussions about books and stories involving MJ will be tainted by the character demolition that Wells started and a few other writers found themselves having to deal with as a result. It was not well received from the beginning, and Marvel did nothing but double down on it and use the stories to take pot-shots at the readers who criticized them. This is all happening inside a poisoned well where we the readers have to watch Lowe and Wells being cocky about it over the well's edge because they hold all the cards. And it's been going like this for almost two years.

That is the context in which this one shot came out. A comic that (AFAIC) is absolutely nothing to write home about, although not intrinsically deplorable either. BUT. It presents an MJ that is an absolute departure from her last appearances, story-wise, tonally and thematically. And one may say, well, MJ undergoing a full departure from the repugnant status quo in which she was, that can only be a good thing, right? Well, the problem is that what this story is doing is naturalizing that repugnant status quo, trying to establish Paul (an astonishingly solid contender for the title of most universally loathed character in the history of comics for both in-universe and editorial reasons) as a mainstay character in MJ's life, and attempting to convince us that MJ is a character only slightly adjacent to the main Spider-Man cast.

So: a book that's not necessarily bad, but has nothing special going for it: so-so story, so-so art. But that does salt the wound of MJ fans in such a way that feels almost by design. Yeah, it's not going to find a lot of good will here. The book is bland and comes with serious baggage. And people are tired.

And as for shooting down positive opinions... there's around five or six members who are active on this forum and vocally defend the current status quo, as is their right and prerogative. And honestly? The are the largest purveyors of negativity around here. They are passive aggressive, belittling, and provokers. They get into discussions and, when confronted with reasoned arguments hard to dispute, simply walk away and go start a passive aggressive fight somewhere else. I won't name names, but there's actually no need.

Thanks fjmac...

You know, I'm not a fan of Paul, and the direction MJ has been written in...I understand the enmity that exists in fandom about the MJ situation and generally agree..but this thread is about Jackpot #1, which I intended to purchase (I did buy it) and give a chance..very quickly this thread became dominated by views about the overall MJ situation, and a platform for disgruntled views about that..at point of seeing a preview and then soon as the title came out...sorry about what you say on active members in defence of the status quo on the forum, that's not me...and I don’t think that's Majesty or Triniking either....I think we just wanted to comment on what we read in Jackpot #1 without going along or arguing with the "lobby group" against the MJ situation..but we have become embroiled...

I know what you're saying about buying this book helping to normalise the status quo, but bad or good this is just an appearance by MJ and I was prepared to be open minded about and take any positive I could see...

Similar will apply to the MJ Black Cat team up when it comes out..

[Frontier]

My POV is that, yes, this comic had a lot of baggage from past writing going into it that this comic didn't really reconcile or even bother trying to address...but as a standalone Mary Jane Watson comic it was kind of weak too.

And that seems to show in the actual reviews as well.

[Mercwmouth12]

My POV is that, yes, this comic had a lot of baggage from past writing going into it that this comic didn't really reconcile or even bother trying to address...but as a standalone Mary Jane Watson comic it was kind of weak too.

And that seems to show in the actual reviews as well.

The Amazing MJ did pretty well on it's own and if there wasn't a pandemic is could have finished out with a second arc